Seventh - Vol. 5 Ch. 25.1 - Say Its Name (part1)

[profklausschwab]

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He never hated Lyle and there was no malice. From the start, he genuinely only wanted to push him to man up, get motivated, take the initative of his own life and stop moping around. It's loud, abrasive and hard-edged talk that would have worked to fire himself up if it was said to him at his lowest.
He just has trouble grasping that Lyle was a more senitive kid, shaped by a different era, family dynamic and trauma. In the First's mind there is nothing to apologize about because from his perspective everything he said was kind and encouraging, and he was struggling to understand why it wasn't having the effect he thought it would.

After Lyle went to save Aria, he completely stopped bashing him from a personal place and shifted to ribbing and bantering instead letting them start to connect a little better.
(It wasn't clearly said in the manga, but in the novels he explicitly says he enjoys bantering with Lyle the same way he does with the second because that's the way they talk in his family, and that he’s happy whenever Lyle stands up for himself and argues back).
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I’m not claiming he isn’t annoying or overly antagonistic though.

Looking back, I probably could have done a better job highlighting that side of his character in the translation.

I have to disagree. Other ancestors and even First in recent chapters truly did mean to provoke him for better, but First in the start did not. First was truly just venting and abusing him in the start, not with good will or caring, and was clearly not trying to help until he needed Lyle to save Aria, unlike others who were clearly trying. He tried to justify the insults after other ancestors called him out for them but he showed no good will

 

[profklausschwab]

He just has trouble grasping that Lyle was a more senitive kid, shaped by a different era, family dynamic and trauma. In the First's mind there is nothing to apologize about because from his perspective everything he said was kind and encouraging, and he was struggling to understand why it wasn't having the effect he thought it would.

I mean there are attempts at doing good, but backfire due to the person being awkward, rigid or misguided, Sophia in a few chapter back was this, other ancestors before they knew better were this. And there are attempts to ridicule or insult someone into oblivion. I find its extremely hard to put First's actions for the majority of the first 2 vols in the former instead of the latter

 

[ScentedMagnets]

Sorry, but disagreed. He has done nothing but bash someone who was already down. He has contributed nothing, helped in no way, and was himself an even bigger failure than Lyle but in other ways. Yet he's arrogant, obnoxious, and entitled. Making constant demands.

Disagree. To say hes done nothing helpful is just wrong. I understand if you dont like him but you should be more objective.

 

[Lex79]

I'll be honest, I'll feel sad if we start losing the ancestors the more Lyle becomes stronger.

 

[keane6t4]

Basically Lyle grew up reading his worlds version of The Lord of the Rings except it was real and Aragon was his ancestor only for the characters in the book to become tulpas and relentlessly harrass him? This context would have been way better if we had it from the start lol

 

[Capturinggod200]

Good riddance to the ancestors' constant derailing the story, with their unnecessary commentary that handicaps Lyle more than it helps.

 

[Aelthar]

Modern people call it harsh/bad parenting, old people call it tough love.
Simple as that.

This is tough love? I'm asian and this is downright loving and caring by my standards.

 

[Yengozi]

Sorry, but disagreed. He has done nothing but bash someone who was already down. He has contributed nothing, helped in no way, and was himself an even bigger failure than Lyle but in other ways. Yet he's arrogant, obnoxious, and entitled. Making constant demands.

It's a failure on him for not understanding his method isn't working. I'm not giving this dude any slack; he's dumb and an ass.

 

[amamiya426]

This is tough love? I'm asian and this is downright loving and caring by my standards.

Moms equips slippers, dads have belts, such is true asian(and some latinos) difficulty.

 

[Strela]

He is from a different generation, the 2nd, his son didn't like him either and was a complete polar opposite from his hotheadedness. He treated Lyle like that because he didn't know the full story, so basically think of him like the average boomers but he actually believe in the youngster and willing to teach him.

 

[TenThousandWaspsInACoat]

Moms equips slippers, dads have belts, such is true asian(and some latinos) difficulty.

"Pointless domestic abuse is good actually and shows that parents care!". Also, which asians? Because there's a bunch of different asian countries and East Asian is vastly different from South East Asian.

 

[Fuhgeddaboudit]

are we really debating if the first is a dickhead rn?
the same guy who been harassing his great++ grandson nonstop the minute he could speak to him, intentionally making him pass out in the streets and refused kicking and bitching to teach something him needs to survive? that one? ok.

 

[amamiya426]

"Pointless domestic abuse is good actually and shows that parents care!". Also, which asians? Because there's a bunch of different asian countries and East Asian is vastly different from South East Asian.

Mostly SEA I guess. While I agree violence isn't a good solution in raising kids, most old folks did it to instill dicipline and keeping the kids from doing dumb irreparable actions.
Saying its pointless disregards those intention. Most have good intentions, they just had really bad painful methods back in the day.
I wouldn't hit my kid, but looking back I understand why mine did so.

 

[TenThousandWaspsInACoat]

Mostly SEA I guess. While I agree violence isn't a good solution in raising kids, most old folks did it to instill dicipline and keeping the kids from doing dumb irreparable actions.
Saying its pointless disregards those intention. Most have good intentions, they just had really bad painful methods back in the day.
I wouldn't hit my kid, but looking back I understand why mine did so.

Oh, discipline and punishment for genuine misbehaviour aren't the problem. But the folks mostly using violence against children nowadays and being proud of it originate from the third world. And looking at their countries, it usually doesn't appear to be working out.

 

[amamiya426]

But the folks mostly using violence against children nowadays and being proud of it originate from the third world.

Less about being proud about it, but acknowledging the past so we don't do it again.

You know what, we're getting off tangent, this a chapter discussions, Basil only had abrasive words towards Lyle at most.
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