Akuyaku Reijou Tensei Ojisan - Vol. 7 Ch. 45 - Star Birth Ceremony - Part 5

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Psychronia

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Anna was too pure for a trial like this.

...Okay, so I get that it's a prisoner's dilemma, but I might need some help with understanding the setup.

Person A can use magic to light Lamp 2 while looking at Lamp 1.
Person B can use magic to light Lamp 1 while looking at Lamp 2.
If both use magic, both lamps go out.
If Lamp 1 is unlit, Person A passes. If Lamp 2 is unlit, then Person B passes.

So they can and did just win by doing nothing.

But...if A wanted to make B fail for the reward...A would light the lamp. But B would see the lit lamp and could light A's lamp in turn. And if they both saw lit lamps and applied magic at the same time, the lamps would go out and both would pass anyway.

...So the only way to actually successfully betray someone is to apply the light at the last second while meticulously keeping time in your head. And the way to prevent betrayal is to both supply magic consistently so both lamps are perpetually unlit.

It feels like the whole game is rigged against betrayal even without the reveal.
This would go a lot better if they were looking at each other's lamps and magic directly lit the lamp they were looking at instead of the other one. Make it so only the betrayer knew they were betraying until it was too late, and could not control whether or not they passed.
 
Last edited:
wanfai

wanfai

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Psychronia said:
Anna was too pure for a trial like this.

...Okay, so I get that it's a prisoner's dilemma, but I might need some help with understanding the setup.

Person A can use magic to light Lamp 2 while looking at Lamp 1.
Person B can use magic to light Lamp 1 while looking at Lamp 2.
If both use magic, both lamps go out.
If Lamp 1 is unlit, Person A passes. If Lamp 2 is unlit, then Person B passes.

So they can and did just win by doing nothing.

But...if A wanted to make B fail for the reward...A would light the lamp. But B would see the lit lamp and could light A's lamp in turn. And if they both saw lit lamps and applied magic at the same time, the lamps would go out and both would pass anyway.

...So the only way to actually successfully betray someone is to apply the light at the last second while meticulously keeping time in your head. And the way to prevent betrayal is to both supply magic consistently so both lamps are perpetually unlit.

It feels like the whole game is rigged against betrayal even without the reveal.
This would go a lot better if they were looking at each other's lamps and magic directly lit the lamp they were looking at instead of the other one.
Click to expand...

You got a little confused on the rule (and i did too, hence the edit), and this is also not a prisoners dilemma, it’s just straight betrayal.

Key rule (see page 118 by the image page number, not the MD page number), unless it’s mistranslated:
The two lamps will not go out when magic is poured into both of them unless they’re both in view.

So it’s literally just straight betrayal. Furthermore, the opposite light don’t go out if you put in mana in just one either, they just stay on. So if even one of them betrays, ever, it’s over. This is a trust exercise of ‘do you trust your friend even when nothing makes sense’ since they can still sense mana.
 
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DavidianMillerian

DavidianMillerian

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A Kaiji reference? In MY Isekai manga?!

Happens more often than you think.

jo2t4j.jpg
 
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TesutoLTSF

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wanfai said:
You got a little confused on the rule (and i did too, hence the edit), and this is also not a prisoners dilemma, it’s just straight betrayal.

Key rule (see page 118 by the image page number, not the MD page number), unless it’s mistranslated:
The two lamps will not go out when magic is poured into both of them unless they’re both in view.

So it’s literally just straight betrayal. Furthermore, the opposite light don’t go out if you put in mana in just one either, they just stay on. So if even one of them betrays, ever, it’s over. This is a trust exercise of ‘do you trust your friend even when nothing makes sense’ since they can still sense mana.
Click to expand...
Heya!
Yeah, based on the Japanese source, your interpretation is correct, and I think the translation is quite accurate. To turn off the lamp, both lamps need to be visible to the caster, so it’s impossible to turn it off by yourself given the setup.
 
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Psychronia

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Messages
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wanfai said:
You got a little confused on the rule (and i did too, hence the edit), and this is also not a prisoners dilemma, it’s just straight betrayal.

Key rule (see page 118 by the image page number, not the MD page number), unless it’s mistranslated:
The two lamps will not go out when magic is poured into both of them unless they’re both in view.

So it’s literally just straight betrayal. Furthermore, the opposite light don’t go out if you put in mana in just one either, they just stay on. So if even one of them betrays, ever, it’s over. This is a trust exercise of ‘do you trust your friend even when nothing makes sense’ since they can still sense mana.
Click to expand...
Aaah. Okay, so that bit about being able to put them out was just an unnecessary complication.

Still, betraying while the other person knows they've been betrayed and can betray you in turn feels rigged against it. At most, you do it at the last second, which would require a clock or something to be in view to pull off with confidence.
 
7goat

7goat

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Psychronia said:
It feels like the whole game is rigged against betrayal even without the reveal.
Click to expand...
Yea, because this whole thing is one big teamwork exercise and they both need to clear all five trials to get their magical beasts back. Betraying your partner here simply doesn't make sense since they'll both lose their pokemon, not to mention the 'surprise reward' sounded really vague and shady, and the teacher already made it too obvious to begin with. Then again, his dialogue implies that both Grace and Anna aren't like his usual students and that Psychology is a subject that is looked down upon, so maybe this trick could've worked had it been any other pair of students.
 
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Psychronia

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7goat said:
Yea, because this whole thing is one big teamwork exercise and they both need to clear all five trials to get their magical beasts back. Betraying your partner here simply doesn't make sense since they'll both lose their pokemon, not to mention the 'surprise reward' sounded really vague and shady, and the teacher already made it too obvious to begin with. Then again, his dialogue implies that both Grace and Anna aren't like his usual students and that Psychology is a subject that is looked down upon, so maybe this trick could've worked had it been any other pair of students.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah. This trial was never gonna get them because Anna is pure and both girls have a vested interest in the other one succeeding. To the point they might choose to be betrayed if given the choice.
 
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