Maou ni Natta node, Dungeon Tsukutte Jingai Musume to Honobono Suru - Ch. 88

[Grevados]

I mean from the kings perspective this should be an easy execution atp

"Off with his di- head! Off with his head!"

 

[finalm]

I mean from the kings perspective this should be an easy execution atp

It's not a matter of convincing the king, dude already trusts him unconditionally. As far as evidence goes, this would be pretty weak. He's relying on tools no one ever saw or knows how they function. It's an easy defense to say you were framed by whatever incomprehensible magic was used here. Even worse, one has to wonder who made these and how, casting some serious suspicion on the MC collaborationg with some outside force. Unfortunately it's a case of author not being bright enough to construct a good intrigue and it's conclusion.

 

[Eliminateur]

man this felt like such a short chapter with all the "side story" views, i wanted to see more conclusion

 

[Brobobo]

It's not a matter of convincing the king, dude already trusts him unconditionally. As far as evidence goes, this would be pretty weak. He's relying on tools no one ever saw or knows how they function. It's an easy defense to say you were framed by whatever incomprehensible magic was used here. Even worse, one has to wonder who made these and how, casting some serious suspicion on the MC collaborationg with some outside force. Unfortunately it's a case of author not being bright enough to construct a good intrigue and it's conclusion.

See, if this were a court of law you would be correct, but typically in feudal societies, with the right cause and justification, a king can very easily circumvent all of that if they can just reasonably have any sort of justification or public sentiment on their side.

This isnt about justice, but rather simply interests at court aligning. Many nobles probably want his "power", so if the king removes him, that leaves more on the table for them. The evidence isnt whats important, its justification and greed.

 

[Plain3r]

Demon Lord Yuki/"Wai" on magic tool wholesale bargains be like:
Evidences of the crime scenes caught in 4k, lived testimony.

 

[hevensdragon]

She wasn't supposed to know even in the next arc. Something went very wrong here.

As a novel reader, I am very confused why you think that. She wasn't just a knight, that was Nells mentor. She learned almost everything on his first visit to the capital. She and the king were told during or right after dealing with the prince.

 

[hevensdragon]

See, if this were a court of law you would be correct, but typically in feudal societies, with the right cause and justification, a king can very easily circumvent all of that if they can just reasonably have any sort of justification or public sentiment on their side.

This isnt about justice, but rather simply interests at court aligning. Many nobles probably want his "power", so if the king removes him, that leaves more on the table for them. The evidence isnt whats important, its justification and greed.

You left out level of trust. The hero's word means a lot, him trying to act like it doesn't was just foolish. The words of someone trusted by the the king, hero and high ranking members of the church can't be just dismissed.
While he is trying to discredit the hero, he hasn't actually managed to do so yet. The other nobles are humoring that propaganda and seeing where it goes, but they don't actually believe it. So most nobles will still have trust in her, and her party.
A large portion of them would believe what he is saying over that noble. Also they know whats normal for nobles to do, deploying troops like that is far from normal. If you got info you would notify the posted guards, not bring in your own troops. And even if you did bring in your own, you would still notify. That he did it on his own without doing so reeks of a underhanded tactic and all the nobles would know that.
Even the guys act when called out, they would know he is guilty from that.

But yes knowing that the noble is guilty doesn't mean they will act on that knowledge. That said, if the king acts they will follow. As they know he is guilty they won't sacrifice themselves to try to help him if the king is against him.

 

[Shrimperor]

I miss dragon wife

 

[Kojo]

guillotine kun is cheating on mia-sama

Let's be real, she's too good for guillotine-kun.

 

[finalm]

See, if this were a court of law you would be correct, but typically in feudal societies, with the right cause and justification, a king can very easily circumvent all of that if they can just reasonably have any sort of justification or public sentiment on their side.

This isnt about justice, but rather simply interests at court aligning. Many nobles probably want his "power", so if the king removes him, that leaves more on the table for them. The evidence isnt whats important, its justification and greed.

The whole point of this arc is that the king is in an extremely weak position after the whole coup attempt. He has few allies and as seen even in this chapter, there's still revolutionary sentiment floating around. He can't excersize that kind of authority over nobility now for fear of losing what little power he still has and he said it himself in earlier chapters. He needs strong, public justification to act against a nobleman here, otherwise others will see him as a threat and take advantage of the situation to support the faction the manipulator is with (yes, he has backing, a strong one, as it turns out).

This is true to RL, feudalism is different from absolute monarchy in that the monarch NEEDS the support of the feudal lords - they are the ones with the resources to field sizable armies and can get rid of him if he pisses off enough. The royal families of Europe that managed to get their countries to transition to absolute monarchy could indeed hand down justice as they saw fit. Though that sometimes didn't go over quite as well either, see France.

 

[finalm]

As a novel reader, I am very confused why you think that. She wasn't just a knight, that was Nells mentor. She learned almost everything on his first visit to the capital. She and the king were told during or right after dealing with the prince.

Did you read as far as the "boat demon lord" extermination? She was working with them both there and they acted in order to conceal his true nature from her. There was no indication they told her earlier either, the king found out first hand while still imprisoned and she wasn't there.

 

[Dragou]

The whole point of this arc is that the king is in an extremely weak position after the whole coup attempt. He has few allies and as seen even in this chapter, there's still revolutionary sentiment floating around. He can't excersize that kind of authority over nobility now for fear of losing what little power he still has and he said it himself in earlier chapters. He needs strong, public justification to act against a nobleman here, otherwise others will see him as a threat and take advantage of the situation to support the faction the manipulator is with (yes, he has backing, a strong one, as it turns out).

The thing here is not the King. Its the Hero Nell which is still part of the church who gained considerable strength after the coup attempt AND Yuki (known as the masked man) who is also basically a hero and quite beloved by the people of the capital because of the coup and what he did.
Put the situation, where Nell is known to have protected a Town vs an army of monsters unharmed and without a scratch to the town, on top of it and the only way to go against Yuki here would have

Spoiler

been the military guy backing argos and using him as a pawn. That guy also doesnt care about the noble and all.

In conclusion there is no chance for this dumb noble to get out of it and other nobles are smart enough to wait and see what happens.

 

[Primalmoon]

Apparently my prediction from the previous part was off...

Corrected:
Next time...:

• "What? No... Of course not... Alright, no more bribing. Instead we'll make a big incident where some people try to invade my ball, and it will take real heroics to solve it, except that the whole thing will be solved before the hero even has a chance to move."
• "How does that help?"
• "This will make everyone start rumors about how the Hero didn't act while a major incident was happening. Confidence in the hero will plummet."
• "So your plan is to make such a trivial incident that the hero doesn't even have to move to solve it and the incident is over before anyone learns that there was an incident, and that's supposed to discredit the Hero?"
• "When you say it like that it sounds dumb."
• "That's because you're an idiot. How do you make sure that incident gets resolved fast enough anyway?"
• "So get this, I'll make sure the hero's fiancé solves it..."
• "..."

• "Then when questioned by the hero's fiancé I will freely admit that the guy he subdued is my subordinate."
• stop talking...
• "And I'll support my subordinate by immediately casting him as a brave person and the hero's fiancé as someone that would attack a brave citizen. And of course talk up his impeccable nature and associate that grand nature with myself so that they'll turn on the hero."
• seriously, please stop talking...
• "Of course I'll immediately throw that guy under a cart the second that the hero's fiancé brings evidence that my subordinate met with bandits."
• Oh no, he's gone insane. He's monologuing. I didn't think people actually did this.
• "...And then I'll make sure to firmly plant my meticulously well-crafted shoe as deep as possible, right in my mouth."
• Please, just go ahead and stick your foot in your mouth now so you'll shut up!

 

[rameniki]

Witnessing his strength, morals, his love and respect for Nell and still judging her taste in men?!

That’s cold, knight lady…

 

[finalm]

The thing here is not the King. Its the Hero Nell which is still part of the church who gained considerable strength after the coup attempt AND Yuki (known as the masked man) who is also basically a hero and quite beloved by the people of the capital because of the coup and what he did.
Put the situation, where Nell is known to have protected a Town vs an army of monsters unharmed and without a scratch to the town, on top of it and the only way to go against Yuki here would have

Spoiler

been the military guy backing argos and using him as a pawn. That guy also doesnt care about the noble and all.

In conclusion there is no chance for this dumb noble to get out of it and other nobles are smart enough to wait and see what happens.

You are talking about something else. Yes, it's obvious that the conspiracy against Nell can't succeed at this point, they have nothing to her detriment and their allies in the church got purged. The topic here was that what was presented by this point as evidence by the MC should allegedly be enough for the king to execute the conspirators. I pointed out that it's very shaky evidence and they really need that to be as strong as possible - due to the king being in a weakened position.

 

[CapnAndy]

I propose another magical device. It is called Lefi.

The purpose of this device is cuddles and maybe some dragon babies

 

[Dragou]

You are talking about something else. Yes, it's obvious that the conspiracy against Nell can't succeed at this point, they have nothing to her detriment and their allies in the church got purged. The topic here was that what was presented by this point as evidence by the MC should allegedly be enough for the king to execute the conspirators. I pointed out that it's very shaky evidence and they really need that to be as strong as possible - due to the king being in a weakened position.

Again: the kings position beeing weak matters in the point that People like Nell and Yuki have the power to sway things just with such shaky evidence. The noble is practically seen as the bad guy even with weak evidence but accused by the Hero of the coup and the churches formal Hero. Also because the magic technology of humans is not as advanced as Yukis toys.

Them then backing the King actually gives power to the King and strengthens his position again.
Naturally there would be ways out from that BECAUSE the evidence is weak and if they would label it as fake made with technology from the Demons.
BUT that again would need either the people they conspired with from the church (which you already said got purged) or the big backer in the backround. If that guy would openly move they could completely protect this guy here and get out of it.
The point is that he doesnt do that on purpose, which signals to everyone present that its over for that noble. They are smart enough to know that either this guy is truly the big bad guy here or the lizards tail that get cut off. Both options are not something they would want to defend, because it would cost them more than they can gain from it.
PS: The fact that the replacing of the Hero also failed that was initiated by that guy is also making other Nobles take a step back from it too.

To be fair to here tho:
You are most likely a manga only person and me and others also did read the novel. Therefore the comprehension of all of it is a bit better because some things inevitably get lost (or less obvious) from novel to manga.

 

[BanzaiYuri]

Vanir would be proud of this sales pitch

 

[fight2live]

dude was playing Ace Attorney but acting like Doraemon

 

[finalm]

Again: the kings position beeing weak matters in the point that People like Nell and Yuki have the power to sway things just with such shaky evidence. The noble is practically seen as the bad guy even with weak evidence but accused by the Hero of the coup and the churches formal Hero. Also because the magic technology of humans is not as advanced as Yukis toys.

Them then backing the King actually gives power to the King and strengthens his position again.
Naturally there would be ways out from that BECAUSE the evidence is weak and if they would label it as fake made with technology from the Demons.
BUT that again would need either the people they conspired with from the church (which you already said got purged) or the big backer in the backround. If that guy would openly move they could completely protect this guy here and get out of it.
The point is that he doesnt do that on purpose, which signals to everyone present that its over for that noble. They are smart enough to know that either this guy is truly the big bad guy here or the lizards tail that get cut off. Both options are not something they would want to defend, because it would cost them more than they can gain from it.
PS: The fact that the replacing of the Hero also failed that was initiated by that guy is also making other Nobles take a step back from it too.

To be fair to here tho:
You are most likely a manga only person and me and others also did read the novel. Therefore the comprehension of all of it is a bit better because some things inevitably get lost (or less obvious) from novel to manga.

I have read the LN.

The shaky evidence is not a boon to them or the king. It's simply the weakness of the author's storyline, since he never adresses it it any way and acts as if it's a big gotcha.

You are speculating about things that could or could not happen at a later date. None such processes are happening right now, when they face off against the fall guy. The king might suspect who's behind it, but he does not know for certain, nor does he understand their motivations (no wonder, they are absolute deus ex machina BS, to be honest), so he does not get a stronger position now, when people commenting here would like him to act. If he knew all that, that would be a different story, since it's ultimately to his benefit.