100-nen Ryuunen Shiteru Elf - Ch. 6
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The problem with translating boke and tsukkomi as "funny man" and "straight man" is that it's mostly incorrect. It's just correct enough to fool people, but wrong enough to be wrong.
"Straight man" and "funny man" in Western parlance are about delivery. The straight man is always serious and composed, the funny man is hot-headed, emotional, or silly, or angry. As an example, look at Abbott and Costello (of "Who's On First" fame). Joe Abbott is the straight man, Costello is the funny man. Nobody could possibly argue against this and be taken seriously. We can move on.
"Boke" and "tsukkomi" are about who's the dumbass (boke), and who is correcting (tsukkomi) the dumbass. Watch Gintama. It's a world full of very stupid people doing nonsensical things with a perfectly straight face. Shinpachi is the only one who sees the absurdity and frequently reacts to it by going absolutely apeshit. He's the classic "tsukkomi". But he's also not a straight man. Straight men don't go apeshit.
It's completely possible for the straight man to be the boke, and the funny man to be the tsukkomi.
In fact, this is expected!
The premise of the very chapter we're commenting on relies on the implicit understanding that, in a comedy routine, bokes should act completely serious, and the tsukkomi should be loudly and violently reprimanding them for their stupidity. Elel herself understands this, probably because of all the variety TV she watches, and her failing was that she was so much a shut-in she did all her tsukkomi in her own head, not that she didn't realize how manzai comedy was supposed to work.
"Straight man" and "funny man" in Western parlance are about delivery. The straight man is always serious and composed, the funny man is hot-headed, emotional, or silly, or angry. As an example, look at Abbott and Costello (of "Who's On First" fame). Joe Abbott is the straight man, Costello is the funny man. Nobody could possibly argue against this and be taken seriously. We can move on.
"Boke" and "tsukkomi" are about who's the dumbass (boke), and who is correcting (tsukkomi) the dumbass. Watch Gintama. It's a world full of very stupid people doing nonsensical things with a perfectly straight face. Shinpachi is the only one who sees the absurdity and frequently reacts to it by going absolutely apeshit. He's the classic "tsukkomi". But he's also not a straight man. Straight men don't go apeshit.
It's completely possible for the straight man to be the boke, and the funny man to be the tsukkomi.
In fact, this is expected!
The premise of the very chapter we're commenting on relies on the implicit understanding that, in a comedy routine, bokes should act completely serious, and the tsukkomi should be loudly and violently reprimanding them for their stupidity. Elel herself understands this, probably because of all the variety TV she watches, and her failing was that she was so much a shut-in she did all her tsukkomi in her own head, not that she didn't realize how manzai comedy was supposed to work.
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Same. Was thinking when she pointed out she was an elf, they would say something like she doesn't count towards that debate because she is from another world.
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For real. Super common. I’ve probably seen it in a hundred series by now.
Just learn a little bit of Japanese. You’re reading a manga.
Do you need me to tell you all about the famous Japanese foods riceball, raw fish on rice, and noodle soup?
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This wasn't a dream chapter!?
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Which noodle soup, the one made with thin alkaline noodles from China, or the one made with thick non-alkaline noodles?
Maybe after dinner, we can go to a singing parlor or a ball bearing casino.
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Ok but then we translate samurai as knight and geisha as courtesan. Deal?
Seriously though, translating one to one is suited for the words in common between both languages, not unique cultural elements.
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What?
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I'm almost seeing them as a throuple at this pointChildhood friend makes an adorable elf. I'll be so sad if she doesn't win.
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Elf-mode Kanae is simply too powerful.
Sunbae reads like a lot of Korean or Romanized Chinese names, and SL's usually do a poor job of denoting it as a title. Most Japanese SL's usually do a better job of disambiguating Senpai by adding the name, the Korean translations especially are pretty rough about that.
"Joker" and "Square" might work better but those aren't common slang anymore.
The issue I have with Sunbae is Senpai is unlike japanese common names and readily identifiable. Senpai used to be put in italics a lot as well. Paisen/Paizen
Sunbae reads like a lot of Korean or Romanized Chinese names, and SL's usually do a poor job of denoting it as a title. Most Japanese SL's usually do a better job of disambiguating Senpai by adding the name, the Korean translations especially are pretty rough about that.
I would agree with you except the english translations both lose nuance or are ambiguous, and are clunky.
"Joker" and "Square" might work better but those aren't common slang anymore.
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I am fairly certain that the elf and MC remain only as friends, I don't get any romcom chemistry from them. She's offered her body before and its always been treated as "utter cringe" comedy.Childhood friend makes an adorable elf. I'll be so sad if she doesn't win.
Thanks for the translation!
If certain words can not be translated, the translator has to decide whether to localise instead of translate (which takes much more time and skill to do so while removing as little context as possible and is often not even possible) or to leave the term untranslated.
Though I do agree that at least the first time an untranslated word appears in a series, there should be a translation note or a term dictionary at the end of the chapter (or volume in case of a physical version). After the he first time, it is in my opinion ok to expect the reader to either know the word or to go back to look it up again.
The problem is that boke doesn't actually translate to funnyman and tsukkomi doesn't translate to straightman. In fact, the boke usually behaves much more like a straightman and the tsukkomi like a funnyman, though they are still quite different. These terms come from different comedy routines, they are not interchangeable.
If certain words can not be translated, the translator has to decide whether to localise instead of translate (which takes much more time and skill to do so while removing as little context as possible and is often not even possible) or to leave the term untranslated.
Though I do agree that at least the first time an untranslated word appears in a series, there should be a translation note or a term dictionary at the end of the chapter (or volume in case of a physical version). After the he first time, it is in my opinion ok to expect the reader to either know the word or to go back to look it up again.
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Okay considering that onee/onii-chan, senpai and ojou-sama can be left untranslated to be fine and the opposite for sunbae or hoobae is just peak bias speaking
I actually agree with your take that leaving untranslated bits doesn't seem right most of the time, but you could have written it in a bit better way
(
Most of the translators do this in their free time without charging us anything, so phrasing it like this sounds rude, imo)
