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- Thread starter MangaDex
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I’m sorry, maybe I’m incredibly stupid but is the first thing you do is fire on an unknown vessel? I can understand if it was a lonely farmer in the middle of nowhere, but not trained military men. The vessel appears to made of all metal and clearly has no mast, and doesn’t appear to be propelled under any other normal circumstances. The situation requires caution, not a full broadside. I can only guess the captain purchased his commission.
Ok, I’ll let that slide, given man can be extremely stupid and arrogant but I cannot let it when the admiral state he doesn’t what the intentions are when his masts are destroyed. He should be thinking his entire fleet will be taken as prizes. Something unheard of, if the country is based on Britain. I wouldn’t doubt he would be contemplating suicide for the disgraced of losing his entire fleet and the fate of country, since his ships were so easily and quickly disabled.
Ok, I’ll let that slide, given man can be extremely stupid and arrogant but I cannot let it when the admiral state he doesn’t what the intentions are when his masts are destroyed. He should be thinking his entire fleet will be taken as prizes. Something unheard of, if the country is based on Britain. I wouldn’t doubt he would be contemplating suicide for the disgraced of losing his entire fleet and the fate of country, since his ships were so easily and quickly disabled.
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@RyoukoKonpaku Yup, that's also a factor that favors Japan in the early game, they are in a weak area while they have a huge technology gap while at the same time making all the great powers underestimate them, but that advantage slowly diminishes as the story progresses
And about the Gra Valkas Empire, I would it's also a similar situation to Japan, but different from Japan who has our current technology, the Gra Valkas Empire has ww2 technology, while the HME and Mu are at the start or in the middle of ww1 technology, with the HME suffering from stagnation since they relied too much on ancient artifacts and didn't make a lot of advancements by themselves (also a head start in the early game, that gets outclassed during the later mid and late game) and are also just too full of themselves because of their "strongest nation in the world" title
And about the Isekaied nations as far as the wiki says only Mu (aka Atlantis), Japan, and the Gra valka Empire were isekaied, with a division of the IJA getting isekaied at the first Demon lord invasion during ww2. And maybe the Ancient magic empire is also isekaied, but that isn't confirmed yet, so it's in discussion
And about the Isekaied nations as far as the wiki says only Mu (aka Atlantis), Japan, and the Gra valka Empire were isekaied, with a division of the IJA getting isekaied at the first Demon lord invasion during ww2. And maybe the Ancient magic empire is also isekaied, but that isn't confirmed yet, so it's in discussion
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@entity_101 Yep, it works right now since nobody actually knows about Japan yet (sure they defeated Louria, but they weren't exactly strong either) but as the story progresses
it's inevitable their military prowess will be heard by all civs.
Especially after the Palpadia arc
Was stating more on GVE actually started being cautious, but only became arrogant after they defeated the supposed "strongest" civ in the new world in a naval battle which was the HME. Like Japan the established civs underestimated GVE at first until they got a bit known. Yeah HME had a headstart since their region was where ancient magic empire (RVE) vanished and took the relics left for themselves, they could've been a bit more powerful if they actually studied on the concepts of the stuff they tried to reverse engineer and made their own military assets instead of trying to replicate 100% the RVE ones.
Also If I recall the RVE is the only civ that willfully isekaied (GVE, Mu, and Japan wasn't) themselves to the new world, so they likely have advanced dimensional magic tech, they already have gravitational ones with the Pal Chimera.
Also If I recall the RVE is the only civ that willfully isekaied (GVE, Mu, and Japan wasn't) themselves to the new world, so they likely have advanced dimensional magic tech, they already have gravitational ones with the Pal Chimera.
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@entity_101 that's kinda unreal for the 7th fleet to do "nothing" .....but well it's up to the author...I just curious what happen with tens of thousands US soldier, dozens of US ship, hundreds of US aircraft, etc that's now "trapped" alongside Japan... And what happen with their salaries though... Where do they get their salaries if the US Gov aren't there...
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@Ainzell like @entity_101 said they're definitely on support and more on having a defensive stance for Japan than going out of the country's naval territory since they cannot exactly resupply their armaments once it's used as the US isn't there anymore. They also have other roles later one but not related to battles but it's not exactly nothing. As for salaries, it's not really mentioned anywhere but I'd bet with the tech their military assets have the JP Govt can take lead at least on their salaries.
They're more of an weapon tech advisor for Japan in the future, especially with Aircraft Carrier designs and overall naval weaponries. They also do military drills for Japan's naval fleet like before the isekai and training on aircraft carrier usage. As mentioned above, since their tech cannot be resupplied they can't just use it as it'll be pretty important for Japan to study them to advance their own weaponry.
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@RyoukoKonpaku Yep, I'm reading the WN and LN,
and they talk about how Japan managed to defeat Palpardia, but since Palpardia was basically the weakest of the big 3, they still continued to underestimate Japan
And about the GVE, they actually started cautiously but after I think the 7th or so great nation basically insulted them and got their asses kicked by the GVE, it was then when the GVE became full of themselves. And in the first naval battle between the GVE and the HME, I think the GVE admirals said that they had sent their most obsolete fleet and even then I think they said that the HME was weaker than they thought and since the HME called themselves the strongest, they basically thought if the HME wasn't all that of a threat then everyone else was even weaker
And when they saw Japan only bringing a patrol boat, that didn't made any damage to their battleship at the strait battle, they only got to underestimate Japan's fighting power, though they did say that Japan maybe could build big guns like theirs, and at one point according to the wiki, Japan sent an envoy to GVE to show them a video of their military power to stall them for a little while, the GVE considered that as a ruse, but acted more cautiously but still full of themselves
And when they saw Japan only bringing a patrol boat, that didn't made any damage to their battleship at the strait battle, they only got to underestimate Japan's fighting power, though they did say that Japan maybe could build big guns like theirs, and at one point according to the wiki, Japan sent an envoy to GVE to show them a video of their military power to stall them for a little while, the GVE considered that as a ruse, but acted more cautiously but still full of themselves
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OPERATION MOMOTAROU! That's hilarious. Time to slay some ogres.
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@entity_101
Yeah most of the issues are with countries underestimating Japan but I do like that the more fights with civs we have the more effort the enemy gives, while GVE was overpowered on the naval battles, they did try to counter Japan albeit still failing, like adding ship flares failing to distract modern missile warheads.
I'm not up to date yet with the LN, but with the hints on a possible war with Annonrial Empire I wonder if they will at least be more cautious and maybe give Japan a bit of effort than usual as they seemed to be better at reverse engineering RE tech than HME.
I'm not up to date yet with the LN, but with the hints on a possible war with Annonrial Empire I wonder if they will at least be more cautious and maybe give Japan a bit of effort than usual as they seemed to be better at reverse engineering RE tech than HME.
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@RyoukoKonpaku
According to the Wiki, I think the Annorial Empire is somewhere early cold war technology level since they're using helicopters transport, and the Annorial Empire I think the wiki said they revered or are some kind of subject of the RVE, and that they have been purportedly hiding that they're as strong as the HME because they want to bring the RVE as quickly as possible, and that they are actually the ones who caused the demon lord invasion
And Japan did manage to get some intel about them, mostly that they know the AE have a military power comparable to the HME, but still didn't do anything, and on their page in the wiki says that in LN vol. 6 the AE will try to recover one of the RVE beacons is Rodenius, so by the vol. 7 it'll be shown if they'll be a comparable enemy to Japan
And Japan did manage to get some intel about them, mostly that they know the AE have a military power comparable to the HME, but still didn't do anything, and on their page in the wiki says that in LN vol. 6 the AE will try to recover one of the RVE beacons is Rodenius, so by the vol. 7 it'll be shown if they'll be a comparable enemy to Japan
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@entity_101
You say you aren't defending the author's views, but I feel you are making a lot of justifications of his biases being reasonable.
the reason I said they were caught out of nowhere is because the entire mass kidnapping event, which after as a catalyst for the reformation is beyond belief. First, what the hell are the Japanese government doing in allowing their citizens to travel outside Japan for tourism? Japan has made a lot of enemies already since their arrival and putting your civilians outside your protected borders and marking them as a soft targets to be exploited is dumb as hell.
Second, what the hell are their diplomats doing? They already have established several allies and should have a wealth of knowledge exchanged about the geo-political situation about the local and world powers, making it easy to identify which empires are considered as potential threats and where their sphere of influence extends and operate.
Third, what the hell is their military doing? How do they not have reconnaissance posts or scouts to keep track of said threats? How incompetent do they have to be to not notice slow moving ships making their way to the tourist hotspot, disembark from their ships and casually round up all the civilians without any resistance? Not to mention the fact that no rescue operation was formed to save said civilians before they were all executed when they fucking did it so easily during the demon lord arc.
Second, what the hell are their diplomats doing? They already have established several allies and should have a wealth of knowledge exchanged about the geo-political situation about the local and world powers, making it easy to identify which empires are considered as potential threats and where their sphere of influence extends and operate.
Third, what the hell is their military doing? How do they not have reconnaissance posts or scouts to keep track of said threats? How incompetent do they have to be to not notice slow moving ships making their way to the tourist hotspot, disembark from their ships and casually round up all the civilians without any resistance? Not to mention the fact that no rescue operation was formed to save said civilians before they were all executed when they fucking did it so easily during the demon lord arc.
It is pretty obvious and convenient for the author to make the Japanese government incompetent at this point because it is suppose to drive home the end game of repealing the self-defense clause. It is pure contrived writing to not see it for what it is. We are suppose to expect the JSDF who has been portrayed as an infallible superpower, yet constantly underestimated by all the evil and inferior empires, somehow slip up without rhyme or reason? It is classic textbook fascist writing of an ultra-nationalist author. "The enemy is weak and easy to defeat, yet are still unable to be eliminated, and still pose a serious threat." Empire is weak and harmless, yet still somehow massacred a bunch of civilians.
And don't bring semantics into this, they are an evil empire because the author portrays them an evil power, that's his bias and how he wrote them. They have zero redeeming features and the author makes it abundantly clear.
Like seriously, how does a yearly slave tribute make it any less morally reprehensible? Sounds like something a scammer would say, present an outrageous choice first, then lower the demand to make it seem more reasonable and acceptable. ITS NOT ON ANY LEVEL. Or is this supposed to be before or after the empire slaughters hundreds if not thousands of unarmed civilians, including the women, children, and elderly? All while guffawing gleefully in the presence of the diplomat?
And don't bring semantics into this, they are an evil empire because the author portrays them an evil power, that's his bias and how he wrote them. They have zero redeeming features and the author makes it abundantly clear.
Like seriously, how does a yearly slave tribute make it any less morally reprehensible? Sounds like something a scammer would say, present an outrageous choice first, then lower the demand to make it seem more reasonable and acceptable. ITS NOT ON ANY LEVEL. Or is this supposed to be before or after the empire slaughters hundreds if not thousands of unarmed civilians, including the women, children, and elderly? All while guffawing gleefully in the presence of the diplomat?
You say you aren't defending the author's views, but I feel you are making a lot of justifications of his biases being reasonable.
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No... I don't want to be eaten.... *Blush*
The artist really isn't good at expressions.
The artist really isn't good at expressions.
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@entity_101
[Actuall it's Big 5: HME, Mu, Eimor, Parpaldia, and Leifor. The bottom 2, although their tech is comparable to Napoleonic-Victorian, they are the most aggressive but Parpaldia worse than Leifor. And yes, the Ravernal Empire is also isekai'ed but they went to the New World by themselves rather than summoned by a god/spoiler]
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@Yurisivel Okay, you made your arguments, now I'll give you my counter arguments
The number of enemies of Japan know by Japan, both in this chapter and by your likely dropping of the novel, 0. Why? Well, none of the great powers really care about the Rodenius continent, which is in a backwater region, with backwater nations. If Japan doesn't have any enemies, and Fenn guaranteed that it was safe to come to their kingdom, why wouldn't they allow their citizens to do tourism? They don't have any nation that came and "You Japan is now our enemy for no obvious reason". Louria was an enemy of qua-toyne not of Japan, Japan just intervened to protect their own citizens from starvation, Palpardia said they just defeated a nation that they could have easily defeat too without much trouble
Japan has a bunch of allies? By this time her number of allies is a whopping 2! TWO ALLIES!!! Both of them in the Rodenius continent, with both of them being basically isolated from the rest of the New World. Do you know what their diplomats are doing? They are going around the globe trying to contact nations and start diplomatic talks, they're not in a civ6 game or EU4, where they just press a button and Boom alliance made, at this point, Japan only knows of some nations and has diplomats of even fewer nations, at the few months they started searching for other nations
What is their military doing? Drills probably. How do you expect Japan to have extraterritorial bases, when it doesn't have allies outside of Rodenius or showed itself to be powerful as a great power (defeating a small backwater nation with other two nations is definitely not showing as having a super-powerful military)? They don't, they also don't have satellite surveillance yet too, there's a limit to how many times and how far a scout plane can do, and they don't have the luxury to keep scout ships over the entire new world to find any threat at any time
And about all the other empires that are evil and weak, well answer me, who wins the entire IJN or an American supercarrier and its escort fleet (because that's what's basically happening)? Well, to the surprise of no one the supercarrier wins, why? Because they can attack from farther away and their weapons have no countermeasures, there's no way a Zero fighter can defeat an F14, that's how it works the bigger the technological gap, the bigger is the advantage, and you want me to believe modern Japan wouldn't win? Then come up with a very sound argument for why a technologically superior foe who doesn't underestimate its opponent, wouldn't against an enemy with inferior technology
Enslaving is definitely not morally reprehensible... By today's standard, ask a roman if slavery wasn't fine, ask the Ming emperors if slavery wasn't fine, ask Genghis Khan if slavery wasn't fine. They would all give you a thumbs up because by their standards slavery is totally justified. For you, it's not, but for them, it's totally fine to make people into slaves. I'm pretty sure that there's more than enough examples of some ruler in the past capturing some citizens of some other kingdom, that kingdom's envoy asks for the ruler to release their citizens, the ruler says that he'll release if they pay a tribute of slaves to him, then goes to show them what'll happen if they refuse (they get all killed, and their kingdom invaded by a powerful empire)
And to the surprise of you and those who didn't read the novels that far ahead, Japan is not the only underestimated nation.
Just so you know, The Europeans and Americans during the Russo-Japanese war, all thought that Russia would win because they're Europeans, the Russians lost surprising everyone, but that didn't stop the Europeans and Americans to consider Japan as equal or as a threat, why? Because it takes more than a single war or battle to consider a nation a great power, especially a nation that many already considered as backward
All these arguments are from basic history lessons and thinking about what I just read, and not yours that feels real like, SJW funnel vision. Is the Author ultra-nationalist? Definitely, but at least this story makes a lot of sense if you think about what happened, and not as if everything happened because it was just made up, all you need to do is read it while paying attention to the details, not just read and do "Oh! That empire with a Roman Empire mentality has slaves, then that means they're evil because slaves are bad by modern standards"
The number of enemies of Japan know by Japan, both in this chapter and by your likely dropping of the novel, 0. Why? Well, none of the great powers really care about the Rodenius continent, which is in a backwater region, with backwater nations. If Japan doesn't have any enemies, and Fenn guaranteed that it was safe to come to their kingdom, why wouldn't they allow their citizens to do tourism? They don't have any nation that came and "You Japan is now our enemy for no obvious reason". Louria was an enemy of qua-toyne not of Japan, Japan just intervened to protect their own citizens from starvation, Palpardia said they just defeated a nation that they could have easily defeat too without much trouble
Japan has a bunch of allies? By this time her number of allies is a whopping 2! TWO ALLIES!!! Both of them in the Rodenius continent, with both of them being basically isolated from the rest of the New World. Do you know what their diplomats are doing? They are going around the globe trying to contact nations and start diplomatic talks, they're not in a civ6 game or EU4, where they just press a button and Boom alliance made, at this point, Japan only knows of some nations and has diplomats of even fewer nations, at the few months they started searching for other nations
What is their military doing? Drills probably. How do you expect Japan to have extraterritorial bases, when it doesn't have allies outside of Rodenius or showed itself to be powerful as a great power (defeating a small backwater nation with other two nations is definitely not showing as having a super-powerful military)? They don't, they also don't have satellite surveillance yet too, there's a limit to how many times and how far a scout plane can do, and they don't have the luxury to keep scout ships over the entire new world to find any threat at any time
And about all the other empires that are evil and weak, well answer me, who wins the entire IJN or an American supercarrier and its escort fleet (because that's what's basically happening)? Well, to the surprise of no one the supercarrier wins, why? Because they can attack from farther away and their weapons have no countermeasures, there's no way a Zero fighter can defeat an F14, that's how it works the bigger the technological gap, the bigger is the advantage, and you want me to believe modern Japan wouldn't win? Then come up with a very sound argument for why a technologically superior foe who doesn't underestimate its opponent, wouldn't against an enemy with inferior technology
Enslaving is definitely not morally reprehensible... By today's standard, ask a roman if slavery wasn't fine, ask the Ming emperors if slavery wasn't fine, ask Genghis Khan if slavery wasn't fine. They would all give you a thumbs up because by their standards slavery is totally justified. For you, it's not, but for them, it's totally fine to make people into slaves. I'm pretty sure that there's more than enough examples of some ruler in the past capturing some citizens of some other kingdom, that kingdom's envoy asks for the ruler to release their citizens, the ruler says that he'll release if they pay a tribute of slaves to him, then goes to show them what'll happen if they refuse (they get all killed, and their kingdom invaded by a powerful empire)
And to the surprise of you and those who didn't read the novels that far ahead, Japan is not the only underestimated nation.
The Gra Valkas Empire is underestimated even after defeating a great power, and a fleet of the HME and they are basically Imperial Japan with American resources, the HME is not evil and still considers to be stronger than Japan, Mu isn't evil and underestimated Japan at the start. All those nations after seeing what Japan is actually capable of they all stop saying, that Japan is weak. The only truly Empire that can be said to be portrayed as evil by modern standards is the GVE, and that's because it's basically Imperial Japan on steroids
Just so you know, The Europeans and Americans during the Russo-Japanese war, all thought that Russia would win because they're Europeans, the Russians lost surprising everyone, but that didn't stop the Europeans and Americans to consider Japan as equal or as a threat, why? Because it takes more than a single war or battle to consider a nation a great power, especially a nation that many already considered as backward
All these arguments are from basic history lessons and thinking about what I just read, and not yours that feels real like, SJW funnel vision. Is the Author ultra-nationalist? Definitely, but at least this story makes a lot of sense if you think about what happened, and not as if everything happened because it was just made up, all you need to do is read it while paying attention to the details, not just read and do "Oh! That empire with a Roman Empire mentality has slaves, then that means they're evil because slaves are bad by modern standards"
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@IronMace1990 Thanks for the correction, it has been some time since I read the WN
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[Mu really underestimated Japan first but at least they're not aggressive towards them. When they recognized that Japan more advanced than them, Mu wants to become one of Japan's closest allies and after the New World War, Mu might reap the seeds it planted: tech advancement from WW1-level to at least Early Cold War, as said in LN Vol. 6 /spoiler]
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is that einstein?
