5Toubun no Hanayome

[donm527]

@yotsuba428 I may not be putting my words down clearly so let me try again... I am not trying to say through the whole story that there has been no signs, hints, or teasing or possibility of romance between all the sisters. In the beginning Itsuki being the main girl it could have been her with her first trying to help Fuu get her sisters to work with Fuu and Yotsuba had her story where she spent the day with Fuu while avoiding being seen by the sisters, etc... it's just, and I am giving my view, as the chapters progress I find Itsuki while able to still be flustered by Fuu at times, doesn't bear her soul showing any romantic feelings for him... or wanting to try and join the the other three in pursuing. And up til the latest chapter, I have not seen that from Yotsuba either. Not the constant build up over chapters like we have seen with Nino, Miku and especially Ichika... and you do see that by the author in the panel with Ichika saying "everything a lie" and all those diamond panels with the moments I describe shown from chapters through the entire story. I just haven't seen much relationship development with Itsuki and especially Yotsuba.

I see your avatar name so I get it... just like you see my avatar pic But you're saying Yotsuba is "hurt?" I hadn't seen it and didn't see it in her last panel in last chapter. If there is something more then I guess her arc is coming up and it will clear it up for all of us and I will admit it if I see it. But right now I don't I see it. What I do see is the last chapter it looks like Miku pulling back knowing she didn't have a chance at that moment (even though we see a more confident girl coming out of this) as well as Nino not disagreeing when Miku told her she is not at the lead either. I think all the sisters know who is hurting the most when they are surrounding Ichika and comforting her while crying near the end.

Also... Ichika said she fell in love with Fuu since that short moment they spent 5 year ago in Kyoto. So no way Yotsua suffered the most over Ichika because there is no sign she fell in love with him the first day like Ichika did unless we see it in an upcoming arc. She was excited to spend the day with a boy and excited to tell everyone. It doesn't mean she fell in love with him that day. If she was crazy in love, why not go back to the lounge and keep spending time with him before Ichika had a chance to?

 

[donm527]

@yotsuba428... I just looked over chapter 21 again as you mentioned... You're basing Yotsuba's love for Fuu and her hurt and everything over one panel in the last page of the chapter?? And as much as she said she is a terrible liar, she said she really was lying when she said, "I love you" and looked super proud to tell Fuu that she could do it if she really tried when he freaked out.

And like I said, since chapter 21, she hasn't given me any signs of showing any romantic interest in Fuu or joining in the fight to show she wasn't lying (actually in love) in 21. If anything, since then, she has had a heart to heart with Ichika to be selfish and do what she wants and also tried to help Miku in this last arc. And at the very end when Itsuki said that they need to tell him she was the 1st girl in Kyoto but she looked pretty comfortable with saying it's "It's fine like this."

Also, no... Yotsuba did NOT ask Itsuki to help with Rena thing because she's bad at disguise. I really don't know where you get that? At the end when Yotsuba walks to Itsuki dressed as Rena, Itsuki APOLOGIZES for pretending to be her without telling her. She didn't ask her to pretend otherwise she wouldn't apologize for being found dressed as Rena. Itsuki obviously recognized Yotuba in the picture she found in chapter 2 while taking a drugged Fuu home and decided on her own to be Rena... actually trying to tell Fuu to go away when they first met.

Unless future arcs reveal otherwise then I'm going to believe Yotsuba that she pulled off a great tease and, to me, it looks like Yotsuba is content with being a sis-in-law. We are pretty past half way into the story... in order for there to be a happy ending and all the sisters happy for the bride and not hate each other and accept everything, we will have to start seeing the sisters move on eventually.

 

[Non_Descript_Member]

Of course, what I'm talking about here is simply down to individual reader perception, but I do believe that Negi-Sensei is utilising the discussed moments as hints for the manga's end phase.

Spoiler

Yotsuba is likely bad at lying only when Fuutarou is the centre of the context in the present situation, much like in Chapter 21. She has no qualms with lying to him about the past because that's been going on for much longer and basically now a part of her; we know who she is, and Itsuki now believes it's time for Fuutarou to know.

Chapter 72 basically contains compelling evidence that she has feelings for him, both through a flustered reaction early in the chapter and a melancholic response near the end.

The latter case is her believing she cannot or should not fulfil her hopes to pursue him, so would rather take the effort to help Miku or any other sister, so she unabashedly lies to her classmates about her romance not panning out - she "doesn't believe it will happen" but "wants it to be realised". She wants her sisters to be happy more than she wants herself to be happy, and through an unhappy smile, Yotsuba has to try and crush herself to force a lie, using the events of the past in Kyoto as a means of getting it out so as not to "ring the alarm bell".

As for the former case, why would she react all flustered if there wasn't something there? This is best reinforced with the top panel of this page. She's no longer blushing like a Christmas tree is lit up like she was two panels earlier, and is to me perhaps one of the biggest possible hint-drops that shows there is something there. Just because Fuutarou denies having feelings for her to her face later in the chapter, doesn't mean by any stretch that Yotsuba can be ruled out as a love interest. The partial expression we see on Yotsuba in this one panel alone also loops around to what we see when she makes the melancholic expression; both point to the fact that she likes Fuutarou, but her stance on her personal happiness is contradictory to the truth of what she wants and that she cannot reconcile these into one thing.

Also take note that she tries to lie to him with zero conviction in the middle of the chapter, as she's doing it directly to him. She tries to shunt him away but that fails as he knows her well enough to see that it's such a break in character that he knows something's troubling her. Of course, given that he spends a lot of time with the Quints, it's obvious he can pick up on certain tells from them, even if not at the level he wanted to as seen in the Scrambled Eggs arc.

Regarding Itsuki!Rena in the latest chapter, it makes sense when re-running Chapter 82. Itsuki tried to re-jog Fuutarou's memory of that distant day in Kyoto, which succeeded; whether or not he has concluded Itsuki to be the one he (thinks he) met remains to be seen, but at the very least knows that he can ask her to pass along the message so that he can meet with Rena. (Possible-)Yotsuba!Rena already parted ways with him, so that immediately rules out one of the Quints in his eyes, as Itsuki!Rena behaved much less composed and level during the meeting in the mall. As he knows the person he met is not Ichika based on the charm being washed away back in Seven Goodbyes, that gives Fuutarou a 25% chance of figuring out Lake!Rena's identity.

Further to that, Yotsuba picks up on Itsuki's actions and it is inferred that they discussed Itsuki's being out of character off-panel. With what we know now, Itsuki wants the game of deceit in front of Fuutarou's face to come to an end; him and the Quints been around each other a lot, but he can't recognise them because they, much like he was, are not the same as they were in Kyoto. All the sisters are aware of the truth, but for some reason or another, won't say it (we'll likely see soon). The only two breaks in the case, beyond the obvious reveal in the Chapter 86, are:

1. Ichika screwing up on a vital detail, as mentioned earlier.
2. Itsuki's tired of playing the game; she doesn't necessarily want to enter the fray, but doesn't want Yotsuba to lose to Ichika, Nino or Miku because of Yotsuba's stance and self-negatively-impacting mindset.

EDIT: I just Chapter 85 again, am I right in thinking Ichika was the second to have met him?

 

[donm527]

@Non_Descript_Member

To your "Edit" question at the end of your last comment, "am I right in thinking Ichika was the second to have met him?"...

Yes. Ichicka was the second Quint to meet and spend time with Fuutaro in Kyoto 5 years ago.

Read Chapter 85, page 13 https://mangadex.org/chapter/613160/14 for the flashback... Yotsuba comes back to the hotel where all her sisters are and tells them she met a boy and spent the day with him and the boy is still here in the banquet hall. And then you see Ichika walking afterwards and find Fuutaro in the banquet hall. He has no idea that it's Ichika but it is implied so far that he spends the rest of the evening with Ichika talking and playing cards (sevens) until late/early morning.

And then the flashback continues to Ichika seeing Fuu at the school festival with the blond wig and it, to me, shows that's the moment Ichika realized that Fuu was the boy in Kyoto. (confirmed because if you look at page 4 and Nino saying she noticed Ichika had taken an interest in Fuu-kun since day one, she tries to deny it but she says that "it wasn't until that night that I remembered (Festival night seeing Fuu with the wig).

Then Ichicka's flashback of those memories end with her saying with within all the lies she told, the the brief moment she spent with Fuu that evening 5 years ago was not a lie and realized the first time she fell in love with him.

 

[donm527]

@Non_Descript_Member

Interesting comments you made regarding Yotsuba's feelings and basing it from Chapter 72. I think there's a few holes in it... I think she was flustered of the rumors because she was even shocked people would think of it, hadn't really thought much of the possibility until then and also didn't want to cause Fuu trouble from the rumors because her objective in being co-class rep was to show Fuu to the class what a great guy he is.

She does take some thought into her feelings or if they could be true. But Fuu did shut her down flatly... I think the phrase was, "Hell no" and without hesitation... but he hasn't shown any hint of romance to any of the others either to be fair but expect that to change soon. And I do believe her at the end being completely honest to the classmates shutting them down saying there is no way that would happen as well as her being honest to Fuu in saying she will support him whoever he falls in love with... she basically sis-in-law-zoned herself and did it again last page of last chapter.

But... I will say I can't discount ANY of the girls being the bride yet. I just mention who I think are not. But glancing though past chapters there are scenes that make you scratch your head and say maybe if it unfolds just right in later chapters. Any of the girls still could be the one that kissed Fuu under that bell. Things could definitely change in upcoming Yotsuba arc. But for me, it's always been the Ichika x Fuutaro moments laced through out the entire manga and even perfectly shown in the flashback as Ichika was trying to tell Fuu they were all lies that makes me think it's just them two. But heck, in Masamune-kun no Revenge, I thought and wanted Yoshino to be the girl in the end... but a surprise at the end changed that lol.

 

[Seihanda]

@donm527

Ichika hurt her leg off screen
Pay attention to ch.66

Also I said that because you ignore everything recently happen.
Chapter 51, Chapter 72, LATEST CHAPTER

 

[donm527]

@Seihanda

Thanks for finding the chapter on the ankle. So Chapter 66 Itsuki tells Ichika to be careful or she might sprain her ankle. Emphasis on the word “might”... so it’s not sprained and with no signs of limping or pain (which she said did not hurt in later chapter).

I’m just saying she can’t be elimated as one of the girls that could have ran up to Fuu and away at the bell. Do you say this scene shows she’s hurt beyond able to run? I don’t think the author eliminated the possibility of any girls no matter how much I believe that Nino or Miku didn’t have it in them emotionally to do it, the the author could still have.

Chapter 51. Cute chapter. I like that part where all the girls are thinking of what they can do for Fuu and they are imagining all giving him a kiss... except Yotsuba lol. Such pure heart. But she does have her dense moments like licking the cream from his face without thinking lol.

Chapter 72 and latest chapter I have already commented on if you can please read that. Are you ignoring my comment right before yours (my first two paragraphs regarding chapter 72)?? She told the girls that wouldn’t happen and she looked Honest to herself as well at last chapter where she tells Itsuki it’s ok as it is. Are you hoping she’s just in denial?

I haven’t ignored anything. Like I said it could change in future chapters. But one thing I still see... compared to the rest of the sisters, Yotsuba and Itsuki through 86 chapters have yet to declare their love for Fuutaro... either a scene saying it to themselves or to anyone else.

I see where you may be basing your opinion. I have been just trying to show where I base mine too. I really am looking forward to the Yotsuba arc and see where she stands.

 

[Seihanda]

@donm527 first of all, 100++ comments.
Do you expect me to read all of that? NOPE


Second, do you even read that chapter?
Or you just butcher whatever word you like.

In the same bubble Yots explain ichika SPRAINED her ankle
Sprained, that morning when she was hiking
Not to mention ichika say "oops" just above that panel.


How you missed that is just unbelieveable

 

[donm527]

@Seihanda Lol, I'm not expecting you to read it all. But, my explanation on Chapter 72 and the latest chapter... my comment on it is posted RIGHT BEFORE YOURS OK? So if you want to argue a point that I responded back to you earlier in the week and you can't even read the post before yours, I don't know what to say lol. I would like to hear your views then on Chapter 72 and convince me otherwise.

Again on the sprained ankle, I'm reading the translation that Yots told and I basically quoted her be careful or she MIGHT sprain her ankle again like before. MIGHT is not sprained. AND, she told a sister later it didn't hurt and showed no mention of any issues walking around. If you want to base that Ichika couldn't be the girl at the bell because of the sore ankle she couldnt run away, we can agree to disagree and made my argument why. I didn't miss it, I didn't butcher the word MIGHT or twist the sentence that she said it didn't hurt... we just seem to interpret it differently.

Also look at that page... no signs she ran up to Fuu to kiss her. Just shows Fuu see a sister come up to her and wondering what's up. Then he's surprised whoever it was trying to lean up to him and kiss him. They fall and she's running off. And saying run or sprint or jog could be a stretch because the scene shows tapping sounds... tap tap tapping away while getting away. Is that really running?? Maybe "briskly" walking away, eh?? If you feel she wasn't up to it then we differ.

Just trying to have fun discussing the chapters and piece things together with other fans there dude. Please don't take thing personally.

 

[donm527]

@Seihanda how about this and I’ll try to keep it short for you lol.

Ichikas ankle was a diversion/misdirection by the author partially for the bus scene in ch 65.

Ch. 62, Miku pretends to be Itsuki and tells Fuu to end their relationship. They get tangled and that’s when Miku injure her leg... “Ow.”

Ch. 65, Fuu runs into an “Itsuki” near the bus that you see loses her balance due to her ankle and says “I hurt my leg yesterday” so because of that he thinks he’s found the sister that wanted to end their relationship (Miku). But he’s wrong.

Ch. 66 you find out the girl with the ankle is Ichika. But the girl with the bruise was Miku.

So the whole reason for the ankle was to set up the misunderstanding at the bus where Ichika almost got to kiss Fuu!

But the rest of the trip doesn’t seemed bothered by the leg with her even telling a sis it didn’t hurt.

Make sense? Still too long? Sorry lol.

 

[takashiobatasan]

@donm527 sup man how ya' been, what's been goin on? Seems like a big argument.

Are people still arguing about Ichika not being able to be the girl at the bell?

 

[donm527]

@takashiobatasan
Hey there. Just enjoying Memorial holiday with the fam.

Not a big argument, just a disagreement of Ichika's ankle. Not a big deal lol.

It took me a little reading just now to see how the reason for the ankle for really for the setup at the bus with Fuu in Ch 65 as well as to add a bit of misdirection.

I enjoy a good discussion and do apologize for my posts being long but I like to answer people's comments as sincerely as possible and detailed. But I don't think I've posted 100+ times lol. But have been active recently. Blame my daughter for getting me into Manga recently lol.

 

[takashiobatasan]

@donm527 Hey man no need to apologize, I too enjoy detailed manga comments or even arguments. It allows me to finally vent up these manga thoughts and feelings that my family don't understand. I seem to be the only manga/anime lover in my home, and I hate to bother them with stuff they don't like.

I doubt you regret reading this right?

I don't think you have to worry about all that stuff people say, if they can't win an argument they should just admit it. Not poke fun at an Otaku's habits.😀

(By the way I definitely appreciate the long comments it helps me think.)

But, yea I see the set up too with Ichika, not only that but, Ichika and the family where there for 3 days right? So the ankle seems even more minor. It would've healed. So I don't understand why people keep bringing it up. And I can't wait for the new chapter.

P.S. Do you or your daughter read any other manga I'm kinda in a rut until the next chapter 😅

 

[donm527]

@takashiobatasan

If I listed all the Mangas I follow it would probably be the biggest post ever lol. But mainly I just follow a lot of "slice of life" types or senpai x kouhai comedies, straight forward romantic types or like takagi-san types to make me laugh. My daughter and my tastes have differed but have enjoyed sharing her interests with her as well as going to a few cosplay conventions over the years (only her dressing up lol).

 

[Seihanda]

@donm527

Why you keep emphasis on "might"?
"You might sprained your ankle AGAIN"
Again! Meaning it has HAPPENED

 

[donm527]

@Seihanda

"Or else you MIGHT sprain your ankle again like when you were hiking before"... Read that statement very carefully.

Now, show me the chapter where they went hiking previously and she sprained her ankle. You can't because it wasn't recent. The only thing for sure is that she told Fuu she hurt her leg the day before. Are all hurt ankles, sprained ankles?? Nooooo.

It happened. But WHEN did it happen??

Yotsuba could have been talking about a past hiking trip that happened... a year ago... two years ago... 5 years ago. Who knows. And Ichika sprained her ankle at that time. And shes saying now, "Be careful, or else you MIGHT sprain your ankle again like when you were hiking before."

In that context. Understand now?? Are you saying that there is absolutely no way that Yotsuba can be saying it in that context? Do you really have to hold on to a reach that she recently sprained her ankle and that little side story happened off-screen like @scarletcrow suggested and no way she could POSSIBLY been one to approach Fuu at the bell?? Has the author ever just added something like that way before??

Unless you can show me the chapter between 1 and 66 where she went hiking and sprained her ankle there is no indication that she had recently sprained her ankle and she wasn't able to tap tap tap to Fuu under the bell, kiss him, and "briskly" tap tap tap away lol.

 

[donm527]

@Seihanda

At least you don't seem to have any disagreements to my comments on Yotsuba on Chapter 51, 72 and the last. But you really don't want the possibilty that Ichika could have kissed Fuu under the bell?

 

[donm527]

Ok, ok... Off topic trivia now...

So I was re-reading chapter 66 (for another reason) and with this latest chapter and the reveal that Yotsuba is Rena #1 and Ichika was Rena #2 that met Fuu 5 years ago, I see that the author had kinda given that clue 20 chapters earlier!!

Here: https://mangadex.org/chapter/499215/8

As you can see, Yots and Ichicka are having their evening talk and Yots was thinking back when Ichika was the troublemaker of the group lol...

Times she would take Yots snacks... Times she would find all her stickers and put it on her bag... Even the time she found her chatting with the kid she said she wanted to be friends with the very next day!! lol.

Doesn't that sound like they are talking about Fuutaro? Lol, naughty Ichika! 😅I wonder if anyone was able to make that leap and figure that out back then because I think most people were already fooled with the authors misdirection that Rena #1 was Itsuki since she made an appearance in costume. Pretty cool as more chapters come out and more information revealed, how bits and pieces from previous chapters start making sense. I found a couple of more like something that may connect Ichika's "It was all a lie" statment and also made me think, hmmm... but I'll hold off on that.

But if it is Fuutaro, I'm kinda surprised Yots said, "the next day"... So that would mean Ichika played cards and talked to Fuu all night until the next day??

 

[takashiobatasan]

@donm527 Love the enthusiasm, you are really going off on these people, hahahahhahahahah

But yeah I see that connection, that threw me off, Nice find😁😁! And the words "the next day" does leave the thought of him meeting everyone at one point. Fuu-kun being so dense could easily mistake all the sisters for each other! Which, YAY! More confusion hahahahhahahahaha

If you would be so kind I would love to see the other connections you had in mind. I won't hold you to the theories either.... don't worry. 😀

P.S I too have a long list but, need something worthwhile to read, do you have a mangadex list on here? You can set friends to see each other's lists. ( If you want to accept the request of course🙂. No pressure... Just bored.)

 

[Non_Descript_Member]

Most of the reason I've not been responding to @donm527 isn't because I agree with him, but find it impossible to find a place to start counter-arguments to his points.

Spoiler

The preference towards Ichika doesn't help much either; I'm not fully opposed to her, but find her untenable considering her actions between Chapters 74 and 83; her pre-Scrambled Eggs characterisation was much more enjoyable. Plus, it remains to be seen what her dialogues in Chapters 84 and 85 will pan out as.

Plus I've been looking through the 5TnH subreddit the past couple of days. There's all sorts of little bits peppered here and there in the manga that either hint at or are a false flag for things to come, I just didn't notice them until someone else said it.

Though I believe Yotsuba is the most likely candidate for the bride based on various moments both discussed previously and not discussed, it seems that I cannot fully discount Miku or Nino from being candidates, either, though my preference still reamins with 428. Simply put, there's too many hints and false flags that make it impossible to tell what Haruba's planning until we see it directly. For example, I genuinely believed, in Chapter 84, that Miku had won, but that ended up a false flag (as far as we know).