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[Aricitic]

I know I am going to get a lot of hate for this, but I really don't care...
There is no current "official group" because it isn't licensed in English.
An official group would be those recognized and published as physical books. Since that doesn't exist then no one has the rights to translate and publish this and therefore no translation groups "rights" are being infringed upon.
(Certainly I do appreciate the translations, my argument here is that any group has just as much right as ANY OTHER group to translate any manga. Period.)
Trying to argue otherwise is equivalent to bickering between two DVD rip websites. Neither one owns the rips, they belong to the publisher they were ripped from...

And, while there certainly are other manga that can be translated, that requires having the raws AND the interest in translating "something else". Fan translations are just that, translations by fans. They don't (or shouldn't, legally and morally) make money off of their effort, they do it because they like what they are translating.
Suggesting that they translate something they have no interest in is vastly more petty than any perceived "theft" from the "original" translation group. We can decide which one we read, same as we can decide wether we want to wait for it to be legally translated into English, or if we want to spend money after we've already enjoyed it for free.

Whining about a new translator or group's perceived theft from another translator or group is more likely to scare away the new group and make them less likely to upload further things... Rather than translate something else...

 

[imadoathing]

So yeah at the time i posted this i didn't have much of a concept of etiquette between translators so didn't really know "sniping" was a thing. sent an apology email to UXTEF and asked if i should just take it down from mangadex at least,
...don't think i can do much about the sites that it spread to though orz

 

[EternalChild]

The words were too small, had issues reading some of the words, sort of makes it like watching a skipping video, you miss the importent parts.

 

[Akabane]

Looks like its time to start executing people

 

[Scrabbleman]

There is literally no reason that we can't have both releases (the clean one and the rushed one). It's not like the clean one is going to have fewer readers in it or anything. Most of us are willing to read the same chapter twice if it looks better.

This isn't sniping. I've seen sniping and this isn't one of them. Sniping would mean the release of the same chapter from two different groups with similar quality. If the quality is far too different, I wouldn't call it sniping at all.

Some of you guys are translators. You should know this.

 

[ABCsOfLife]

@Aricitic Correct, you'll most likely got hate.
But I'm not here to hate you, just want to give you my two cent about sniping.

Wouldn't it be funny if the previous group assume someone want to take over and let go of this series?
"Eh? But the problem already solved then because someone took over."

True, but only if they took over, if they don't.. well..
You could safely assume.
No more stable/regular scanlator.
You might even have to wait for more than 4 months for new chapter.
Or worse, no one want to pick it up that the translation just stop entirely.


Well, that's how I think about sniping and why I normally think it's alarming.

 

[Solistia]

@imadoathing I would highly recommend if you are completely reliant on a machine translation, do a series someone else isn't doing. Most people are hungry for any translation of a series not being done, they'd be more than happy for an MTL. But if a series has an actual translator working on it regularly, I would highly recommend not touching it unless there's been a drop message beforehand.

This isn't just about unspoken etiquette between translators, there are groups out there that will drop a series if it gets sniped, no matter your intentions, and then the quality you told people to wait for might never come. I speak from experience, I once worked for a group that got sniped a few times on a series by anonymous users that were putting out poor quality but readable scans, so our group that did the high quality version just dropped it, because the leader was tired of getting sniped by impatient readers. By you doing this, you may have killed the other groups desire to translate. Always best to talk with current translator before tackling a series they're already working on, ESPECIALLY if you want them to continue to do so.

 

[gum_rummy]

I gotta wait for the XL version to be released.

Chapters released by people other than the “main” group always insight so much drama. But if we’re going to argue that sniping encourages groups not to complete fantranslations, then we may as well argue that fan-translations demotivate artists and publishers from writing manga and having them officially translated. I don’t care either way, as long as I eventually get to read SOME good stuff I’m happy, and I’m grateful to anyone who translates period, but it seems like the logic against sniping is never applied to the rest of the creative chain.

 

[Eviltwinq]

Can someone contact an admin to remove this ch and put an end to this useless drama?
Thank you in advance.

 

[Aricitic]

@ABCsOfLife and @Solistia then those groups shouldn't post their work online.
If something as small as another individual induces a group to stop translating something then they need to just stop in the first place. It's immature and shows the group isn't stable in the first place.
They don't own their scanlation, they won't own it unless they get enough money to purchase translation and distribution rights from the publisher in Japan... as Crunchyroll did...
If they cannot accept that they don't have exclusivity then they just need to not work on translations in the first place. Everyone has as much right to translate any of these as anyone else does (i.e. [legally] none). If a particular group cannot handle that then they (as I keep stating) need to either stop translating as a whole or only release on their website. (and get over the fact that third-party websites will do the same thing to them that they did to the original publisher -- host without permission).

See, when you say: "Wouldn't it be funny if the previous group assume someone want to take over and let go of this series?" (and) "No more stable/regular scanlator." or "there are groups out there that will drop a series if it gets sniped, no matter your intentions" I don't hear warning and foreboding. What I hear (and I know you aren't doing this, but its what I hear...) is threats, (irrational and unlawful) ownership and (what you may be doing) complaints about the immaturity of fan translators.

If the other group stops translating because a single individual translates a single chapter ahead of them -- with a statement that it is their attempt at learning how to do this... then I don't see a great loss there. Worst case scenario we wait until it officially comes to English. If it doesn't... oh well... how many here were intending to purchase the manga if and when it was officially released (and I don't mean when it is on sale, I mean when it is FIRST released)?
Certainly, I hope they don't stop translating it. They're good at doing so. The quality is better than plenty of things I read. But if they stop solely because of this... well... there's nothing we can do about it.
It isn't my responsibility to make a translation group feel comfortable/happy/etc. It isn't our collective responsibility to do so. It certainly isn't imadoathing's responsibility. It is solely that translation group's responsibility to encourage an environment they are comfortable with, or move on. (again, I'm not doing this in offense of the other group, I'm doing it in defense of imadoathing and any other translation group that decides to try their hand at translation).

Of course, that isn't to say that there isn't something that is legitimately sniping. It does happen, and it is clear when it happens. This isn't sniping, and it clearly isn't. But for the community to demonize someone because of the possibility of a groups reaction to perceived sniping... that is a far worse issue than actual sniping would be in the first place.
You state how you're worried that this group will stop translating? I'm more worried that imadoathing's experience will stop them from trying to translate in the future... additionally I'm afraid that it will prevent others from doing the same, regardless of imadoathing's own decisions. It is much more likely that groups of people will see this demonization... this torch and pitchfork reaction and go: "Yeah, I'm not going to bother."
It isn't imadoathing's responsibility to find a manga that isn't currently being translated should they want to translate. If they want to translate they should translate something they WANT to translate and not have to see something available because no one else has interest in it... If the other group stops translating because of this... well, they didn't have much interest in the story in the first place... and therefore shouldn't have been translating it.
This should be about passion and desire (I know that sounds odd...): the passion for the story and the desire to translate it into the individual's native language... Not responsibility and obligation... and that's what you are making it out to be, those of you who say: "do a series someone else isn't doing. Most people are hungry for any translation of a series not being done" (first example I found, not directed at you specifically) are just wrong. That's work. That's a profession (without being paid). Why would anyone do that? If they want 'practice' for the sake of practice then they can find plenty of workbooks (illegally) uploaded to the internet and work with that.
No, if you want them to continue and get better then it needs to be something they choose to do... something they want to translate...

Ahem. Anyway. If I haven't made my point now, I'm not going to in this iteration. Since I've gone into rambling I'll stop. Sorry for the wall of text, I tried to make it coherent.

 

[kuzunagi13]

this random uploader: (uploads things as is)
me: you do know.. image upscaler exists?

PS: wth.. whats up with these wall of texts? something happened? drama alert?

 

[ABCsOfLife]

@Aricitic What??
No! it's not about "Owning" the series, it's about "Doing" them.
Wouldn't it be kinda unproductive if you're doing the same thing as someone else's already did?

Well, whatever you're your own person.
If in the end you don't get what what people meant, that is fine I suppose. I would elaborate more but, since potentially you will still not get it, so I will refrain on doing that.

Really sorry that I can't help you understand man.

 

[Serkket]

I don't even need to read the novel that you guys wrote down there, because defending whatever the hell this upload is can't be done by anyone mentally well and stable.

 

[pancakesXD]

actually cry babies. if you dont want to read it then dont. no one is forcing you to read it and it doesnt matter who releases these first since you can find the raws online.

 

[Karkeys]

Why fucking bother with the machine translation. We've all got phones nowadays we can just do it ourselves.

 

[Aricitic]

@ABCsOfLife *sigh* the ownership comment wasn't directed at you specifically. There are translation groups out there who attempt to claim ownership of the series they translate, but they literally have no standing on the concept.

And, no, it isn't about simply doing, or being productive. If that was the case then people would just get a job, make money and do unproductive recreation (entertainment).
People translate (or any part of this process) for two reasons: to make money (which, legally, they cannot) or because they enjoy it. More often than not the "it" they enjoy is the content they are translating.
So, no, it isn't and won't be about "being productive" or being "useful". They will translate what they want. They have every right to do so.

I am sorry that the way I explained it before made it so you didn't understand.

 

[ABCsOfLife]

@Aricitic sure...

 

[FireFish5000]

[ul]_{@imadoathing said:}

So yeah at the time i posted this i didn't have much of a concept of etiquette between translators so didn't really know "sniping" was a thing. sent an apology email to UXTEF and asked if i should just take it down from mangadex at least,

[/ul] I think we should all take a moment and appreciate the fact that this snipe doesn't involve a declaration of a cutthroat scan-war, with trash calling trash trash (how many versions of trash did we have? 3?), back and forth insults to the other group at the top of the chapter, and claims that "I have no intention of picking this up, I am just doing this to piss off group X"

Seriously, it has been a while since I have had a sniper without bad intentions.

Some notes for future uploads. Be sure to read the rules! This will give you a few general rules for the MD community, as well as uploader/translator specific rules, such as rule 3.4.1 - Naming Conventions - Chapter Titles. Chapter titles should be translations of the official title, or blank. No need to apologies for your inexperience there. If you feel that is necessary, just add it to a cover page (like you did) with notes on how to send corrections/suggestions to you.

 

[Solistia]

Look, @Aricitic , imadoathing says they want the current scanlator to continue to do this series, and I was giving them advice that maybe this isn't the best way to show they still want them to continue, and that by doing this, could ruin their drive to continue after it's already been done by someone else. I didn't attack them and say HOW DARE YOU DO A THING, I was sharing past experiences to let them know that for the outcome they desire, what they did probably won't have the result they want. If you saw it as an attack instead of advice, can't do anything about that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Like, you're right, anyone can translate whatever. But if you want a certain group to continue to do so, killing their motivation isn't the best way to go about it. Even if they did it first, why continue scanlating a series someone else is already scanlating if the other group is doing it faster and at a mediocrely acceptable level? Is there a point to uploading chapters just cause they're better quality when most readers are happy just getting any ol' scan as long as its legible? Not really, honestly.

It's not about whining about it getting sniped, it's about having no motivation to continue when someone else has already done what you're working on, even if it's not as good as your version. You say it's about passion and desire....well what better way to kill that passion and desire than something you spend a lot of time and hard work on just getting taken out from under you? I know it's not a true snipe, I get that, I get imadoathings intentions, but the actions taken by imadoathing might be taken the wrong way despite their intentions. You can't control how other people perceive something.

Also didn't imadoathing specifically say this was for practice? Then by your own words, shouldn't they "find plenty of workbooks (illegally) uploaded to the internet and work with that." ? I'm really not sure of your point here, because your being quite contradictory. I get that you want to defend imadoathing, and some people here have been rather nasty to them which they don't deserve, I was just trying to point them in a direction that would better serve their desire according to their own words. You attacking people in their defense, while it might feel good in the moment, might instead serve to alienate more people from imadoathing instead of actually helping them.

If you'd like to continue discussing this, hit me up on discord, Solistia#3058, I'm always up for a friendly debate (despite that I think we're both on the same side, just not seeing eye to eye for some reason)

 

[talisay999]

oh wow is she dead, ofcourse not shes the fucking mc