913304

[lionfromnorth]

A Zuru plushie would be awesome.

 

[kp114330]

@BloodySorcerer @ EnderWin
Lets clarify this
4. Katanas are good cutters for the simple reason of self righting edge alignment. As a result, its said to be a good cutter because its ease of cutting for a wielder.
Besides that how well a weapon cuts is determined by how well it holds its edge and the skill of a person to align the edge. Curved blades(like the falchion and cutlass) make such great cutters because their edge helps with the movement of the cut

 

[piapple]

Idk what's happening in comments but I hope Azu can fight too 😂

 

[Saishy]

Finally, some good manga!

 

[BloodySorcerer]

@kp114330 "Katanas are good cutters for the simple reason of self righting edge alignment. As a result, its said to be a good cutter because its ease of cutting for a wielder."
No, Katanas are good cutters because of this point: "Besides that how well a weapon cuts is determined by how well it holds its edge".
Contrary to popular belief Katanas are built very sturdy and they retain their edge for very long. Does that make them superior to scimitars in this aspect?
No, because like you said Scimitars are even more curved and that curve accentuates the cut even more.
But yes Katanas are indeed very good cutters and not because of edge alignment. Edge alignement only affects ease of use.

 

[Phoenix_VII]

Katanas are good cutters but not good swords. They're two-handed (well, bastard-handed anyway), have no cross guard, and very short for a bastard type weapon (shorter than a one-handed European arming sword in many cases!), if I was transported into an RPG, I'd never use one.

 

[EnderWin]

@BloodySorcerer I see, you do know some facts as well. Any channel recommendations?

 

[BloodySorcerer]

@EnderWin I usually follow Shadiversity and Skallagrim, and then some videos from links they pin down in their video descriptions.

 

[EnderWin]

@Bloodysorcerer same here. I guess I'm a bit too new to the topic.

 

[BloodySorcerer]

@Phoenix_VII

"Katanas are good cutters but not good swords. They're two-handed (well, bastard-handed anyway), have no cross guard, and very short for a bastard type weapon (shorter than a one-handed European arming sword in many cases!), if I was transported into an RPG, I'd never use one."

This is misinformation, They have no crossguards but their guards are very good for the job regardless, they have slightly smaller reach but their blades are sharp thoughout it's full length, which makes the difference in size irrelevant. Longswords have poor cutting edge at the tip, making that extra size only relevant for stabbing. On actual cutting the sword actually needs to enter katana range for the blade to do it's job, which means that there is actually no difference in range.

Katanas are NOT inferior to longswords in any way, each sword has it's application.

Katanas offers easier edge alignement, a blade that retains is sharpness for much longer, heavier weight giving that extra edge in cutting power, and a very resilient blade that resists force, which is perfect for parrying and counter attacking. While a longsword would bounce back from being blocked(due to it's wobbly blade made with a more maleable steel), a Katana will persist and can immediately go for a second and third strike.

Longswords are more customizeable making it easy for you to get a sword that fits your needs, have maleable blades of softer steel making them durable and giving them a longer lifespan overrall, longer reach which is great for stabbing. Bulkier pommels and crossguards allowing for crushing blows against helmets and armor pieces.
Each has it's weaknesses and strong points, the wielder, not the weapon type, will determine the victor here. This is not a situation of Polearms vs Arming swords or daggers. Where the Polearm user has the advantage,

 

[Phoenix_VII]

@BloodySorcerer Their guards are not good for the job and they don't have slightly less reach than a longsword, there's a half foot plus difference to their length!...which means that longswords still have a small advantage in cutting distance and an even greater advantage in thrusting distance. And I dunno why you just hand waved thrusting distance away, thrusts give more lethal wounds and is a perfectly valid technique with it's own set of advantages and disadvantages compared to thrusts. Most importantly, longswords have at least some utility against armor, what are you going to do if you run into an opponent wearing mail, lamellar, or plate? Slash at them all day? You'd be screwed.

I stand by what I said. Katanas were good cutters, they were not good swords.

 

[BloodySorcerer]

@Phoenix they ARE good for their job, they work sufficiently well in stopping blades where did you get this idea that they are not? And yes the difference is pretty small, we're talking about Longswords here, not War swords.
"And I dunno why you just hand waved thrusting distance away, thrusts give more lethal wounds and is a perfectly valid technique with it's own set of advantages and disadvantages compared to thrusts. Most importantly, longswords have at least some utility against armor, what are you going to do if you run into an opponent wearing mail, lamellar, or plate? Slash at them all day? You'd be screwed."

Yes thrusts are lethal but they are also garbage against armor unless you're pinning down and opponent so you can calmly aim at the joints. But that's not the problem here, the problem is that a Longswords bounces back when it's parried, a Katana remains stable, a blocked thrust would become a weakness in a knight's guard if their opponent is using a katana or any other rigid weapon that doesn't bounce back. AS they can and will continue on the offensive and close the gap, one more detail that decimates any advantage in range. Against another Longsword it is not a problem because both will suffer the same effect so both fighters can go back in the action. And no Longswords don't have greater cutting range. Warswords have, longswords made for taller people may have, but not base stats longsword. And the japanese have the Tachi to deal with War Swords, and that blade doesn't lose to warswords in anything, be it size or weight.
Lastly, why is it that you think Katanas can't deal with armor?
Their blades are perfect for getting through armor gaps, even the natural curve helps with that. A Katana is perfectly capable of thrusting attacks. They even had Katana with a 2-edged tip just to focus on thrusting, Ever heard of the Kendo/Kenjutsu technique called Gatotsu?
And it's pretty easy for them to thrust too, since a Katana has only a single blade they can guide it more easily into the gaps by holding the back of the blade without having to pin the opponent down first.

 

[sunsetchaos]

tfw a boy makes for a cute tsundere

 

[Toriichii]

@BloodySorcerer

Longswords bounces back when it's parried, a Katana remains stable

What? You are indeed correct that the average longsword does have more flex than a rigid katana but it doesn't mean its jello, and if you block/parry with the edge of the blade, the longsword will barely flex, if at all. If anything, the katana being rigid would be a detriment, as the user would feel more impact force from a block since all the kinetic energy would barely be negated due to the rigidity of the katana. Adding onto that, the rigidness would mean that the katana would be more prone to warping, since the density and strength of the steel in a katana is not as balanced as the european longsword (Their steel was of also poorer quality, which adds to that).

You are correct that the katana is perfectly capable of dealing with armour, and the longsword as well. However,

And it's pretty easy for them to thrust too, since a Katana has only a single blade they can guide it more easily into the gaps by holding the back of the blade without having to pin the opponent down first

what do you mean by this?
The katana only having one side being the side you cut with does not mean anything in terms of holding it to thrust through the gaps in armour. Holding the longsword by the blade is perfectly fine and is safe to do so, as you would have gloves anyway. Even if you aren't, as long as you are holding it correctly, you will not lose any fingers. In fact, there is a technique to hold the longsword using the blade to make the sword into a makeshift blunt weapon (The handguards being the part you bash things with). Anyway, if you're trying to thrust through the gaps of armour using something like a katana or a longsword, you are not going to be able to do that unless you are grappling on the ground. And by then, either sword would be too unwieldy, you would be better off using a tanto or a dagger.

A couple from some of your earlier comments:

a blade that retains is sharpness for much longer

I'm gonna have to hard disagree on this one. How would this be true? The katana wasn't made from some magical steel, any sword would lose its edge after a couple slashes on anything. Heck, even the blade rubbing on the sheath as you take it out will reduce its edge by a bit.

and Longswords that are longer can barely cause any damage on their extra balde lenght unless they go for a stab, meaning for cutting potential their extra centimetres aren't worth crap and they'd have to enter Katana range for they weapons to actually damage their opponent.

????
Unless you only think a slash can only do damage if you use majority of its side as you slash, you are wrong. The fastest part of any sword when swinging is the tip, the farthest point of the blade. While I cannot say if having a longer blade would necessarily do more damage at its tip when slashing, saying that the extra centimetres of the longsword are a waste is misinformed at best, and disingenuous at worst. While a slash that uses the whole length of a blade does more damage than just a few centimetres of the tip, it does not mean that you should discount those small injuries you cause. A cut is a cut after all, and eventually, your opponent will tire out from the loss of blood from those cuts. A lucky cut above the eyebrow can blind your opponent etc.
Adding onto that, having more reach is in my opinion, very important in combat. After all, what use would a light saber do if they cannot even reach you with it.
This is a bit off topic and is slightly unrelated to your point, but nothing is wrong with going for stabs, especially if you out range your opponent. Several centimetres of the tip stops a man as much as the full draw of a blade.

Now onto my own take of what @Phoenix_VII has said about using a katana in a world of magic

Katanas are good cutters but not good swords. They're two-handed (well, bastard-handed anyway), have no cross guard, and very short for a bastard type weapon (shorter than a one-handed European arming sword in many cases!), if I was transported into an RPG, I'd never use one.

I honestly think that the longsword would be a better choice, if we were just to choose between a katana and a longsword. My point being the potential of the longsword to do more than just its role of hacking, slashing and thrusting (what the katana can also do very well, don't get me wrong). With the technique of Mordhau (murder-stroke), you can turn the weapon's role into one that is better at tackling armour. I believe this is quite important as in such a magical world, I am certain you will run into not only people in full plate, but also creatures covered in hide that acts as well as plate. Such acts of slashing and cutting will do minimal damage to these creatures, and trying to stab at weakpoints such as the eyes and mouth would be easier said than done, as I'm sure the creature would be fully aware of its weaknesses.

The crux of the issue:
Luckily for us, we are now in a fantasy world. If it has magic spells and the like, then we can assume magic metal or enchanted steel is also a possibility. In this case, would the sword being a katana, longsword, scimitar or whatever even matter at this point? The fact that the blade can be made out of fantasy materials and even be enchanted can completely negate any downsides the sword would have if it was just made of mortal steel. At that point, it would just be a matter of preference, what you would like the sword to look like. After all, if your sword can cut through almost anything, who cares if its a katana or longsword?

 

[BloodySorcerer]

@Toriichii

"What? You are indeed correct that the average longsword does have more flex than a rigid katana but it doesn't mean its jello, and if you block/parry with the edge of the blade, the longsword will barely flex, if at all.If anything, the katana being rigid would be a detriment, as the user would feel more impact force from a block since all the kinetic energy would barely be negated due to the rigidity of the katana. Adding onto that, the rigidness would mean that the katana would be more prone to warping, since the density and strength of the steel in a katana is not as balanced as the european longsword (Their steel was of also poorer quality, which adds to that)."

This shows that you do have knowledge of a Longsword but know next to nothing about Katanas. Listen Katana's are made to absorb impact, they have a rigid exterior and a soft interior which absorbs the impact, they are extremely resilient to warping. THe whole point of a Katana's build is to be resilient to warping. This also means that if they do Warp then it'ws impossible to fix, however, it will probably never warp so long as you use it for it's designated function.
As for the Longswords bounce back on blocked attacks, these are not my words but the words of an actual Hema practicioner, on a fight that bounceback is minimal. BUt that is only when you take into account Longsword against Longsword, with both swords being very malleable. Against a Katana, figures change, katana's are built to resist Warping and they are very solid, the bounceback would be intensified on a longsword because they are hitting a sturdier structure, especially because Katanas are also heavier.

"what do you mean by this?
The katana only having one side being the side you cut with does not mean anything in terms of holding it to thrust through the gaps in armour. Holding the longsword by the blade is perfectly fine and is safe to do so, as you would have gloves anyway. Even if you aren't, as long as you are holding it correctly, you will not lose any fingers. In fact, there is a technique to hold the longsword using the blade to make the sword into a makeshift blunt weapon (The handguards being the part you bash things with). Anyway, if you're trying to thrust through the gaps of armour using something like a katana or a longsword, you are not going to be able to do that unless you are grappling on the ground. And by then, either sword would be too unwieldy, you would be better off using a tanto or a dagger."

What I mean by this is that you can slide your blade through your hand on a katana to guide it to the spot while you have to half sword a Longsword. So yes it should be easier to aim a thrust when you're guiding it to the point than to hold the blade to shorten it's length.

"I'm gonna have to hard disagree on this one. How would this be true? The katana wasn't made from some magical steel, any sword would lose its edge after a couple slashes on anything. Heck, even the blade rubbing on the sheath as you take it out will reduce its edge by a bit."

You're still thinking on Longswords, Katanas are made different. Longswords were built were maleability in mind, they actually lose their edge faster than what they should've, but that was done on purpose because they are easily able to sharpen it because because of hoe malleable they are, this makes Longswords much easier to mantain and gives it a much longer life.
However, because a katana is built to resist being broken and warping because of the soft metal at it's core they can get away with making a blade sturdier, they don't need a magical metal for that.
Listen Longswords all have their blades as one piece, the blades are crafted with advanced techniques so it doesn't need a special setup. Katanas however are not made of one piece blades, their blades are actually made of three different parts, an incredibly sturdy edge, a soft and malleable core and "casing" that is a mix of both parts. All to make the whole blade as rigid but impact absorbing as possible. THey CAN hold their edge for longer, Longswords could too if they used the same technique, but they'd lose their lifespan in comparison.

"Unless you only think a slash can only do damage if you use majority of its side as you slash, you are wrong. The fastest part of any sword when swinging is the tip, the farthest point of the blade. While I cannot say if having a longer blade would necessarily do more damage at its tip when slashing, saying that the extra centimetres of the longsword are a waste is misinformed at best, and disingenuous at worst. While a slash that uses the whole length of a blade does more damage than just a few centimetres of the tip, it does not mean that you should discount those small injuries you cause. A cut is a cut after all, and eventually, your opponent will tire out from the loss of blood from those cuts. A lucky cut above the eyebrow can blind your opponent etc.
Adding onto that, having more reach is in my opinion, very important in combat. After all, what use would a light saber do if they cannot even reach you with it.
This is a bit off topic and is slightly unrelated to your point, but nothing is wrong with going for stabs, especially if you out range your opponent. Several centimetres of the tip stops a man as much as the full draw of a blade."

Disingenuous? You use biased information and I'm being disingenuous?
Listen that's not how it works, yes the tip is always the fastest point of any object being swung, however, there's a huge difference between swinging a cane and a sword, a cane will not cut people when you swing at them, a sword will. It's the same thing here. There's a problem in longswords maleability. A longsword tip is usually balanced for thrusting, that's because in order to retain it's malleability the sword is made to wobble on impact to lose the extra energy that would make it break, however this also makes it so that the edge wobbles more than the rest of the blade, which makes it lose edge alignment, which is why a Longsword has excellent thrusting capabilities at the tip but a much weaker cut in the same area, a Katana however remains stable at it's tip, retaining it's edge alignment all the way.

 

[osqmu]

no this is actually cute asf

 

[Tiniuc]

Wth is going on in the comments? Is this a debate class with Shadiversity?

 

[Bruhmasterover9000]

bruh

 

[Kakyoindonut321]

Guys don't check the comment further or your brain will be hurt over this useless debate

 

[KipTheGamer]

Nice.