A Returner's Magic Should Be Special - Vol. 3 Ch. 137

[BananowyJE]

Remember that Crow Mask got his scars and burns few years before the current timeline, after peasant revolt ended.
This shadow world is re-enacting stuff from like ~150 years before the current timeline IIRC.
And damn, that felt good to watch. And it was nice to remember (thanks to best boi Pram) that it really all happened

 

[FlynnRider]

@weeabootrash
homunculous body my dude. At least a ghetto one.

 

[Elki]

Not a fan of authors making torture "necessary" (was it even necessary in this case?). Torture isn't cool, edgy or whatever.

 

[Oculunus]

Monarchy itself isn't a great system, but when you add mind control to the mix the world really is screwed.

 

[Jesotku]

@Elki Iol do you expect some one piece nostalgia filler page where you hear the girls poor past and how she ended up like this and then caves in tears and tells the MC everything, if you can't handle real subjects maybe a manga featuring a deep story isn't for you.

 

[Elki]

@Jesotku Featuring torture doesn't make your story deep. He's not even talking about regretting it or anything. He just goes straight to torture, there's nothing else to it. Nothing deep going on here.

 

[ZeroR3]

@Elki
Whatever you think, torture IS an effective way of interrogating unwilling party, and whether we like it or not, it's still used by intelligence agencies and secret military units in the entire world. If you know any better way of extracting important information from captives, then please share.

 

[Rezhio]

@ZeroR3
Torture is not a reliable at all since you cannot guarantee the information is valid. Since someone undergoing torture will tell you anything you want to know false or true.

 

[Elki]

@ZeroR3 Wow, actually supporting real life torture. I didn't expect someone to be openly supporting war crimes and inhumane practices on this kind of website. Also you're incredibly wrong.

Torture is actually well known for being a terrible way to get information. No scientific evidence suggests that torture is any good, on the contrary. It has been proven time and again that the people under torture will say whatever the torturer wants them to to make it stop, which doesn't mean the truth. Look it up.

Torture is bad for literally every reason. Featuring torture in some kind of positive way in your story to make it seem more adult is silly. Torture is quite a serious subject and unequivocally bad. Portraying it as necessary in any way is a severe misrepresentation of the truth which leads to reinforcing the idea that "maybe it is necessary sometimes in real life too", like with this person I'm answering to. It's not. It's bad.

 

[Elki]

Edit: Double post, sorry for that.

 

[weeabootrash]

@FlynnRider What? We literally saw the backstory of crow mask, when his face got burned off. And as BananowyJE said,
"Remember that Crow Mask got his scars and burns few years before the current timeline, after peasant revolt ended.
This shadow world is re-enacting stuff from like ~150 years before the current timeline IIRC."

 

[0DvGate]

@mansurbm_ That makes much more sense then what has happened here, no way people give out info that easily even when tortured.

 

[pip25]

Torturing and killing your prisoners, way to go MC. >_>
Well, at least he's aware that what he's doing is wrong, since he hides it from his companions. Though I'm not sure if that makes things better or worse.

 

[ZeroR3]

@Elki
I didn't saw any proposition for alternative approach in your reply. And because I claim it is effective, it doesn't mean I support it, please save your accusations for yourself.

I only stated that it is still used by military of the world, and I don't mean China or "Best Korea" here, but USA, Britain, and other western nations too, I guess there is a reason for that.
About problem you mentioned, sure, torture might not be most reliable, but there is nothing known, that's more reliable, and again, if you have any idea what could be better, please share it.
Your approach is incredibly infantile, for some reason you assume that torture was shown only to make story more adult, what's more you say it is unequivocally bad, so let me ask a question.

Let's say you are policeman(policewoman) charged with questioning dangerous bomber, person that already detonated few bombs in densely populated areas, who was just caught. You are aware, that he set another bomb some time before his capture, but he is unwilling to say where. He was quite careful so there is no evidence that would help, and there is no guarantee that any clue will be found in time. You are given free hand in your methods. What would you do in such situation? Ask him nicely? Tell him, already murderer of many, that his multiple live sentences would be decreased to only two? Please tell me, what other method you would use to save people that would die in explosion.

 

[Elki]

@ ZeroR3 You making up a weird scenario doesn't make torture good. You can make up all of the weird scenarios you want in your head, it won't suddenly make torture an effective tool. It's not "not the most reliable", it's quite close to useless on top of being against basic human rights.

If it is still used by nations around the world, they're violating international laws. The US did that for a few years on their prisoners of war, it was exposed, they recognized that they literally got zero information (seriously, literally zero) from it and nothing has come out that they still do it today. I wouldn't be surprised if the US was still committing war crimes of the sort (wouldn't be the only kind they do), but nothing has come out yet about it, so I'll be nice and assume they're not.

You want me to give you some other method than that? Literally anything. Giving them candy might be more useful as far as we know.

 

[Nk9bjP4A]

Good ingredients make the best dishes.

 

[ZeroR3]

@Elki Still no real answer from you. Probably because there is none. If torture would be so useless like you say, you would think people would stop using it, yet it was and still is main way of interrogation from I guess beginning of human civilization. And USA claims can be put between The Little Marmaid and Snow White. Those about them stopping using torture, and those about it's effectiveness.
My "weird scenario" is for example something that happens in this manhwa, but it seems you still deny it. And for the love of God, where did I said that torture is good?! CAN YOU EVEN READ? FFS stop putting words in my mouth, because speaking with you is like conversation with a politician. No answers, twisting my words, and going in circles. I'm done.

 

[Elki]

The thing that happens in this manwha is as fictional as your weird scenario, it isn't real life, it isn't an argument for why torture is good. I could make up any scenario where using white phosphorus is the only solution to a problem, wouldn't make white phosphorus good or less of a war crime.

Of course I think you think torture is good, you keep banging on about how effective it is (when it actually isn't, which you would realize with any research on the subject), you seem to fantasize about the the US still using it when as far as we know they are not, partly because international laws forbid it (if you actually have concrete proof of current use of torture from the US government, I'm sure the UN would be interested in these), and you're making up specific scenarios where it is the only option. So yes, you do seem to like the idea of torture.

 

[mitojee]

The movie Battle of Algiers actually depicts a successful use of torture (waterboarding which isn't explicitly shown, but implied) in breaking up and destroying insurgent cell networks. Although it is a movie, some of the actors are actual people who were in the war ion both sides, including a leader of the insurgency who essentially plays himself.

The film was shown at the Pentagon after 9/11 as a training guide; lessons from the film: although the torture worked well in extracting actionable intelligence (I believe it was for info used within 24-36 hours) the ultimate lesson of the movie is that although the cells were destroyed in detail and the French won the battle, they effectively lost the war (politically).

The movie is excellent as a showcase of how insurgency can evolve tactics in tandem with counter-insurgency plus the escalation that usually happens in terms of retaliation, collective punishment, collateral damage,checkpoints and safe zones, population management, etc.

 

[marcyvq]

magus, you can't save schala this way