Accessibility - Page Progression - Always Reader's Choice [Rejected]

[aiseimei]

Some readers have visual, sensory, and/or dexterity issues that make one style of page progression preferable to another. So, please consider allowing the reader to choose the page progression format regardless of what the uploader selected.

Also, it's fine if long strip is the default/recommended format, but a reader shouldn't be forced to read it that way, even if it is a webtoon, but especially when it isn't. Example:

https://mangadex.org/title/ea6c9527-0944-4897-a0ce-e0d36b482640/rojiura-no-ballad

Thx

 

[BraveDude8]

There is no scenario where a longstrip title should be read in paged form; it simply does not work. You will get speech bubbles cut in half in the best case, or chapters where every slice is 500px high and unintelligible as a single page as a result in the worst case. Paged titles can be read as longstrip, and if there's no longstrip tag on a work you can pick whatever method you want.

The title you've linked was incorrectly set to longstrip, and I've removed the tag. It's not about what the uploader selected, it's about the format tags on the work itself, and those can be corrected.

EDIT: I only checked Chapter 1, and I've now discovered Chapter 2-5.5 have been uploaded as stitched longstrips, breaking rule 3.2.3. I've contacted the uploader.

 

[aiseimei]

There is no scenario where a longstrip title should be read in paged form; it simply does not work. You will get speech bubbles cut in half in the best case, or chapters where every slice is 500px high and unintelligible as a single page as a result in the worst case. Paged titles can be read as longstrip, and if there's no longstrip tag on a work you can pick whatever method you want.

The title you've linked was incorrectly set to longstrip, and I've removed the tag. It's not about what the uploader selected, it's about the format tags on the work itself, and those can be corrected.

EDIT: I only checked Chapter 1, and I've now discovered Chapter 2-5.5 have been uploaded as stitched longstrips, breaking rule 3.2.3. I've contacted the uploader.

I understand the breaks and how things will be cut off, but it should still be reader's choice. Responding to a concern about accessibility with "There is no scenario where..." is completely tone deaf and just ignores that fact that someone it expressing how allowing the reader to choose makes the site more accessible. Even if you have no need for it or have never encountered a use case for it (well, you have one now), that doesn't mean it's not of value to other readers.

I did not realize it was based on the tag; my apologies to uploaders. However, If you can allow readers to choose to switch from paged to any other viewing option, why completely restrict it for the long strip tag? If anything needs to be forced or rather, if you want to make it easier for the majority who likely have no limitations regarding long strip format, then consider configuring the tag to only force long strip to be the default view upon opening the chapter, but still allow the reader to choose which works for them like any other title.

Making something accessible for one person usually means making something more convenient for 1000 people regardless whether they share the disability being accommodated. It's one thing for a reader to be restricted from half the site because of their content preferences, but it's another for them to be restricted or rather, not welcomed to half the site because of a formatting oversight. I'm certain I'm not the only reader who would appreciate the ability to choose. This has been a concern of mine for as long as I've been using this site, but I'm only getting around to speaking up about it now. Please reconsider.

And thank you for fixing that title.

 

[BraveDude8]

snip

There is no readers choice, there is no accessibility benefit, there is not a single scenario where it is beneficial for longstrip titles to be read in single page mode; it's simply incorrect, and will always result in a worse experience. This isn't tonedeaf, you just don't understand the problem.

Some longstrip chapters are split into very small chunks, some are split into very large chunks, both have their own unique issues. Neither of the following examples are tolerable in paged viewing.





Longstrip titles are intended to be read as a single continuous image. Splitting them into pages breaks them in many different ways, and that's why we lock longstrip titles to longstrip reading. Allowing users to change this would be allowing users to deliberately give themselves a broken experience, and that's actively detrimental.

If you have an actual defined reason why you believe paged view in longstrip chapters is beneficial, please state it. If you haven't looked at the image fit settings in the longstrip reader mode, I'd advise doing so before posting.

 

[aiseimei]

Thx for the illustration, but I was already aware of what it would look like. I have also been through all of the settings. I promise, I do understand the issue.

I already stated a reason: disability/accessibility. If you need something more specific: central vertigo.

You know what's worse than a broken experience? No experience. There are some readers with inner-ear-related conditions that can only choose between a) triggering an episode because scrolling by itself can induce dizziness, but having to process the amount of white space often found in long strips while scrolling can be 10x worse and serve as an express train straight to a full-on blackout or b) not reading the title at all.

When it comes to using a website, if someone has to choose between their health or nothing, then there is an accessibility issue.

All I'm asking is that you give these readers a third option: an imperfect, but serviceable (for those that need it) experience. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Yes, let them be deliberate about choosing the ugly one. Even if you consider it broken, it might be the only way some people will get to read certain titles at all. In this respect, it's the same thing as allowing terrible translations to remain on the site. If someone can choose to read a bad translation, then they can also choose to read using a less than optimal format. Less than stellar is often better than nothing at all.

If the team prefers to prioritize aesthetics over accessibility, then, so be it; I won't ask any further. Though, if you take nothing else from this exchange, at least understand that it isn't your place to tell a person with a disability what is or what isn't accessible.

Thx.

 

[Teasday]

@aiseimei Are you sure you don't just want reduced animations on tap navigation instead? That's a setting that actually should be implemented in the reader, it's just been hardcoded to smooth scroll on tap in forced longstrip mode for some reason.

Longstrip chunks are very unpredictable, ranging from literally one to tens of thousands pixels tall, and most likely will just lead to the user having to zoom and scroll the image regardless just to be able to read it. I honestly cannot imagine anyone in their right mind actually wanting to use nothing but single page fit-to-screen for longstrip images, even if torturing oneself in that strange way were somehow better than no experience, when limiting max width already exists and hard scrolling tapping doesn't yet but should.

 

[Roler]

@aiseimei Are you sure you don't just want reduced animations on tap navigation instead? That's a setting the reader actually should have, it's just been hardcoded to smooth scroll on tap in forced longstrip mode for some reason.

btw here is the suggestion for that: https://forums.mangadex.org/threads/long-strip-instant-mode.1346197