Asagiiro no Saudade - Vol. 2 Ch. 7

[MangaDex]

 

[outinthegardener]

Committed what crime, exactly? Some crimes are not that bad.

 

[Andigo]

I kinda love this subplot. Whatever Matsuri did, it's nice to see she cares about her child and her friend. Even including villain and ex-villain protagonists it's rare we see this kind of delicate focus on what legal guilt and internal shame mean for someone's place in society. There's gang and prison stories, and more attention to shame in serious lit, but the themes rarely leave the setting as much as they do IRL. People screw up bad. Often. And the aftermath can be really interesting in its complexity.

I know for a fact some female authors went through drama to the point they don't or can't see their children... And it feels like not my concern so long as they're not a serial sexual harasser or something. For someone reformed or at least no threat now it's heavy and rumors affecting their work aren't fair. Mothers also get a sexism layer as it's easy to remap our already gender-bias views on the usual family role into worse bias about no-contact orders. So I'm curious if Matsuri can't put her name out without it becoming at least a slight risk to an end-product.

 

[thewomanliest]

what kind of crime did she do that was serious enough to get her cut off from seeing her kid? granted, i'm not super well acquainted with the laws in japan, but from what i've heard it has to be pretty serious. similar to america, it has to be something that poses an actual risk to either the kid or someone else in the house.

 

[Machaka22]

She killed the dad or the child.

 

[skywardgem]

right into it then, better this than Ren trying to drag out getting an explanation I suppose. Should be an emotional ride from here for the rest of the volume so I gotta appreciate the cuteness of them sharing a futon while I still can

thanks for the chapter!

 

[Gustbk]

To be fair, Japan seems to have a no-redemption view on crime and offenders (unless they involve CP) so even having the reputation of someone who went to jail is already bad enough.
Although the social pressures there do lead to some pretty extreme crimes being commited. I imagine she endangered her family in some way.

 

[Andigo]

what kind of crime did she do that was serious enough to get her cut off from seeing her kid? granted, i'm not super well acquainted with the laws in japan, but from what i've heard it has to be pretty serious. similar to america, it has to be something that poses an actual risk to either the kid or someone else in the house.

To be fair, Japan seems to have a no-redemption view on crime and offenders (unless they involve CP) so even having the reputation of someone who went to jail is already bad enough.
Although the social pressures there do lead to some pretty extreme crimes being commited. I imagine she endangered her family in some way.

If family is self-righteous and concerned about saving face, something as small as petty theft can get someone estranged from family. The severity of the crime may not matter as much as how extended family feel and how wild the rumors sound. In a small town you can't escape rumors, and face matters more than justice. If Matsuri spent months or years in prison, with rumors floating around, family and the town already could have cut her off no matter what happened. A restraining order isn't even necessary for someone who can be bullied to stay away.

I don't have a strong notion of the crime since it could be anything. Dramatically I'm expecting something gutwrenching because it breaks from Matsuri's persona of a meek and dutiful (formerly-)married mom.

 

[Moksie]

Committed what crime, exactly? Some crimes are not that bad.

well apparently it was bad enough to lose custody but then again i got no idea what japan is like in that regard with custody standards

 

[BaoziEast]

Connecting when she said "I need the money" anything comes to mind?

 

[Unitedroad1]

Committed what crime, exactly? Some crimes are not that bad.

It comes up next chapter, but her husband is a gambler and convinces her to steal from their company. He then splits from her while she’s in jail, saying that he’s doing so to protect their daughter. It’s vile stuff

 

[malu]

well apparently it was bad enough to lose custody but then again i got no idea what japan is like in that regard with custody standards

there is barely any share custody in japan, after divorce, you either keep the kids with you or you become the estranged parent and there is nothing that will garantee you that you'll be able to see your kids, if your ex wife or husband decided you won't see your child anymore, you won't

don't forget that, if the mother get the custody ( which happends most of the time just because '' it's a woman's job to take care of the kids" ) that divorced kid will even change their last name after divorce

 

[Moksie]

there is barely any share custody in japan, after divorce, you either keep the kids with you or you become the estranged parent and there is nothing that will garantee you that you'll be able to see your kids, if your ex wife or husband decided you won't see your child anymore, you won't

don't forget that, if the mother get the custody ( which happends most of the time just because '' it's a woman's job to take care of the kids" ) that divorced kid will even change their last name after divorce

huh interesting, thanks

 

[thewomanliest]

If family is self-righteous and concerned about saving face, something as small as petty theft can get someone estranged from family. The severity of the crime may not matter as much as how extended family feel and how wild the rumors sound. In a small town you can't escape rumors, and face matters more than justice. If Matsuri spent months or years in prison, with rumors floating around, family and the town already could have cut her off no matter what happened. A restraining order isn't even necessary for someone who can be bullied to stay away.

I don't have a strong notion of the crime since it could be anything. Dramatically I'm expecting something gutwrenching because it breaks from Matsuri's persona of a meek and dutiful (formerly-)married mom.

how differently do custody and visitation laws work in japan? i’m a child of divorce, and from my experience, it took a massive legal battle for my mom to gain full custody, and even then the court still pushed hard for continued visitation despite my dad’s repeated legal issues. seeing her be cut off that completely is pretty jarring, and the impression i get is that her custody was formally stripped rather than her just being socially estranged.

 

[Andigo]

how differently do custody and visitation laws work in japan? i’m a child of divorce, and from my experience, it took a massive legal battle for my mom to gain full custody, and even then the court still pushed hard for continued visitation despite my dad’s repeated legal issues. seeing her be cut off that completely is pretty jarring, and the impression i get is that her custody was formally stripped rather than her just being socially estranged.

I wouldn't know, but Malu answered very well above.

Your personal situation is important, and I appreciate the example. The cultural expectations and our intuition about how to interpret a situation are very different between cases where the balance of individual rights take precedence (liberty) and where group comfort takes precedence (harmony). To inconvenience or violate the harmony of an arrangement, or to leave an arrangement, is to become the outgroup who is expected to not interfere with the ingroup. Collectivist responsibility to the comfort of the group is often emphasized over individual rights, with upsides, downsides, and excess externalities.

Think of that logic being not just some groups, towns, subcultures, politics, and elites but a more constant norm than most non-Asian 21st century society.

Applied to the situation in question: The intuitions don't go "I have a right to see my child", they instead go "I don't fit in with the family of my child because of stigma, so I should not see my child". Since social expectations often take precedence over individual rights, a situation where you're expected to not see your children is almost as restricting as a retraining order. No one is predisposed to cooperate. The person separated by divorce or crime is not owed sufficient social or legal support to see their kids if the current guardian family is hostile to them. Being outside family group let alone the criminal stigma makes our co-protagonist "unclean" in a sense.

Also western society has more focus on a "nuclear family" and property rights in the laws and social expectations, because they want to pressure parents to stay in their child's life, and because kids are intuitively wards or outright possessions. The impact of that is partly subconscious bias - even a divorced parent has some ownership of kids like property. Or a parent is permanently responsible for keeping up a pretense of nuclear family parenting. And kids are owed the social order of heteronormative patterns because more co-parenting is seen as default good for child development. The liberty focus there has its own positives and negatives.

High focus on harmony is some support for those attuned to a group, not so great for interface with outliers and fuckups.