Berserk - Ch. 386 - Can You Catch Hold of a Migrating Bird in the Clouds?

[GazumYuh]

God Hand popped up to call him a punk b*tch 😂😂

 

[Mineta_The_Grapist]

Story pivot point! Its a castle built on pillars of salt. Team Guts will use talk-jutsu to flip team Griffith... Then its the eclipse again for guts... but maybe they can win this time?

 

[gorkeadbangah]

god please guts kill griffith and release me from this geas

 

[gorkeadbangah]

i have been hating a fictional character for twenty years. let me go!

 

[Theozilla]

I took it for granted that Griffith was long dead. I think this is the first time we get a clue he's still there somewhere, and apparently he is still bitter.


I think that's because he was born as slave of fate, an incarnated synthesis of human desire, something like the macabre divine interpretation of yielding an agent for human will. He never reasoned out on why he wanted this, he just felt its calling. The only human desire of Griffith the vessel himself was Guts. Alongside that, he had various human anguishes that perhaps are still unresolved even after ascension? Particularly, the man felt quite tender when sacrificing both his flesh and that of others.

These "gods" are representations of the struggle born from terrenal affliction, perhaps they are still suffering from human feelings. An entertaining thing in Berserk is that there is God, and then there's deities; there's theology and then there's religion. In past visions there where other members of the god hand now gone, which means they can be killed.

Why does he go トクントクンin pg. 15? As it seems there's a resourfacing of Griffith, I don't even want to get thinking that his doings always contemplated an ending similar to "Guts, now that you've seen yourself my equal you'll understand my doings, now come back to my side". Perhaps he still feels possesive over Guts, previously in terms of subjecting him to a cage of existential pain. Perhaps in his ugliness and depravity he still fancies an ending where they are powerful enough to go around doing things together? Which is quite delusional. I'm not sure that would be great for the work... Moreover, he still resents Caska (it's unclear if as a god or as a man). Perhaps Griffith the man envisioned different reasons than those of Griffith the Falcon.

From a buddhist point of view, no, now Griffith is certainly not an equal, as he still dwelves in anguish, and is stuck in eternal suffering. If Guts did really come onto himself, these to him are not.

Griffith specifically isn't a "slave to fate" though. Berserk as a series goes to great lengths to distinguish the difference to being bound by fate and being bound by causality, the latter of which humans and beings are part of the current of. But on of the key essential points of Griffith's tragedy and Apostles in general is that their falls still ultimately rely on their final choice. They are force sure pressured to make a certain choice, but the crux of becoming an apostle and/or God Hand is that someone uses their free will to make a sacrifice. Being a "slave to fate" is completely thematically antithetical to the concept of the series and lore.

But yes Griffith's emotions are no longer frozen, thanks to his incarnation process causing him to fuse with Guts and Casca's child basically caused his his heart/human-side to quicken again, much to his chagrin as we've seen.

 

[alrightcock]

these chapters go by so fast...

absolutely love the idea of the God Hand bullying griffith lmao... even they can tell what a fraud he's become...

Sonia noticed Schierke... i need these chapters to be longer but i will take what i can get

 

[michi_choux]

Griffith specifically isn't a "slave to fate" though. Berserk as a series goes to great lengths to distinguish the difference to being bound by fate and being bound by causality, the latter of which humans and beings are part of the current of. But on of the key essential points of Griffith's tragedy and Apostles in general is that their falls still ultimately rely on their final choice. They are force sure pressured to make a certain choice, but the crux of becoming an apostle and/or God Hand is that someone uses their free will to make a sacrifice. Being a "slave to fate" is completely thematically antithetical to the concept of the series and lore.

But yes Griffith's emotions are no longer frozen, thanks to his incarnation process causing him to fuse with Guts and Casca's child basically caused his his heart/human-side to quicken again, much to his chagrin as we've seen.

In western thought there used to be no theleological distinction between cause and fate, mainly because cause was ambiguously indentified as function. I don't want to be too dense, but there's an ontological aspect to consider, mainly with Plato at fault: do we consider the ideal design made by god, or its functional terrenal development? We can assign to the later variying degrees of adherence the original design, but more immediate to the terrenal world, this development of phenomena occurs in a rather mechanical way (mostly by necessity). Here is where implications are, or what I understand causality to be in this context. God seems indolent, but that's just functional neutrality acting as mechanical implication, that's important here. I always interpreted Griffith as being a phenomenon resulting from [collective] human will, in a conflict involving his own individual drive; As said in the chapter he meets God itself (But it is truth that Miura ultimately discarded that one from the canon, which is fundamental to the matter). Griffith was functionaly determined, even if he was a 'free man'.

Altough, I'm aware in the east causality is more akin to multiple implications and variable generation, with strong religious notions. I do wonder if Miura himself felt more influenced by eastern philosophy or western rationality. I've always thought he was more inclined to bestow a rather spiritual resolution (akin to the developments starting from Nietzche and all the way to the japanese schools of psychology that emerged before the war); that is, he built an spiritual myth. Rather than ultimately displaying Guts as an hyper-exercised free will akin to the idealized rationality of the west, his struggle will quell to zen contemplation of flow and be-coming. Moreover, as some have said, sufficient chaos makes of free will a trivial claim; I guess it's a matter of to what point we can divorce individuals from context and factors, to what point we can expect them to be rational. Gut's stance against fate, his will, is based on faith alone, as he refuses to cognitively asses the unfatomable size of what he faces.

 

[Vergil]

Fuck you Fagith

 

[Theozilla]

In western thought there used to be no theleological distinction between cause and fate, mainly because cause was ambiguously indentified as function. I don't want to be too dense, but there's an ontological aspect to consider, mainly with Plato at fault: do we consider the ideal design made by god, or its functional terrenal development? We can assign to the later variying degrees of adherence the original design, but more immediate to the terrenal world, this development of phenomena occurs in a rather mechanical way (mostly by necessity). Here is where implications are, or what I understand causality to be in this context. God seems indolent, but that's just functional neutrality acting as mechanical implication, that's important here. I always interpreted Griffith as being a phenomenon resulting from [collective] human will, in a conflict involving his own individual drive; As said in the chapter he meets God itself (But it is truth that Miura ultimately discarded that one from the canon, which is fundamental to the matter). Griffith was functionaly determined, even if he was a 'free man'.

Altough, I'm aware in the east causality is more akin to multiple implications and variable generation, with strong religious notions. I do wonder if Miura himself felt more influenced by eastern philosophy or western rationality. I've always thought he was more inclined to bestow a rather spiritual resolution (akin to the developments starting from Nietzche and all the way to the japanese schools of psychology that emerged before the war); that is, he built an spiritual myth. Rather than ultimately displaying Guts as an hyper-exercised free will akin to the idealized rationality of the west, his struggle will quell to zen contemplation of flow and be-coming. Moreover, as some have said, sufficient chaos makes of free will a trivial claim; I guess it's a matter of to what point we can divorce individuals from context and factors, to what point we can expect them to be rational. Gut's stance against fate, his will, is based on faith alone, as he refuses to cognitively asses the unfatomable size of what he faces.

The conflation with fate you're describing is casual determinism, that is different from causality the concept https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality
We also know that Miura distinguished between fate and causality because he has used both terms in the series and uses specifically different kanji/kana for them.