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black lives matter
- Thread starter denim
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@DewiAdriyanti
Your post is off-topic and low-effort. Please stick to the topic of the thread.
Your post is off-topic and low-effort. Please stick to the topic of the thread.
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Nigga lives matter https://mangadex.org/title/43521/dog-nigga
I stand in solidarity with our brothers, sisters, and furry niggas on MangaDex
I stand in solidarity with our brothers, sisters, and furry niggas on MangaDex
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MRS OBAMA, GET DOWN! @ScrotalLingerie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ObZrS51GGc
Also, that looks glorious so that's added to my reading list
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ObZrS51GGc
Also, that looks glorious so that's added to my reading list
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@Tamerlane Just wanted to say you write with a lot of understanding on the movement and I enjoyed reading all of your posts. I'm in support of the movement but certain actions people are taking are making me skeptical of their goal, and you articulated it so well!
You mentioning Marxism reminds me of when I studied Orwell's 'Animal Farm' in high school.
You mentioning Marxism reminds me of when I studied Orwell's 'Animal Farm' in high school.
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Honestly there is not much to say that hasn't been already said.
All lives matter. Be respectful. Racist people (black, white, chinese,...) are among the most useless people on earth. Stop basing your negative opinion on media and a couple of interactions. There are good and bad people in every ethnic groups.
Good day.
All lives matter. Be respectful. Racist people (black, white, chinese,...) are among the most useless people on earth. Stop basing your negative opinion on media and a couple of interactions. There are good and bad people in every ethnic groups.
Good day.
@Tamerlane we must be the change we seek. It's totally fair and important to scrutinize movements and organizations; at the end of the day I know things won't change for the better unless people push for it, and I know that I want to be someone who fights for what I believe. I understand a lot of structural racism to have an underlying profit motive (conscious or not), with policing having roots in the need for slave owners to catch runaway slaves: https://www.npr.org/2020/06/06/871447408/bonus-american-police I mentioned in a previous comment there are many things that need to happen in tandem with defunding the police, I agree with a lot of the stuff you said too about decriminalization.
More generally speaking, if racism was/is used as a tool to weaken class solidarity between poor whites and emancipated blacks (as well as to pit "model minorities" against other POC), then perhaps it may be most thoroughly dismantled by challenging the profit motive and as @firelight suggested implementing/reimplementing universal policies that materially benefit everyone.
@eng1 Are cops effective though? What do you think is the intention behind defunding the police? To me the extremist view is that our entire society should be constructed on an underlying threat of violence. Maybe the police shouldn't have all the responsibilities they currently do--often times they don't even want it. In fact, crime complaints dropped when the NYPD went on unofficial strike ("work slowdown") and reduced their policing.
More generally speaking, if racism was/is used as a tool to weaken class solidarity between poor whites and emancipated blacks (as well as to pit "model minorities" against other POC), then perhaps it may be most thoroughly dismantled by challenging the profit motive and as @firelight suggested implementing/reimplementing universal policies that materially benefit everyone.
@eng1 Are cops effective though? What do you think is the intention behind defunding the police? To me the extremist view is that our entire society should be constructed on an underlying threat of violence. Maybe the police shouldn't have all the responsibilities they currently do--often times they don't even want it. In fact, crime complaints dropped when the NYPD went on unofficial strike ("work slowdown") and reduced their policing.
@denim I will remind you NYC used to be crime infested until it doubled down on police.
Of course all things have diminishing returns and too much policing or too much inefficient policing can be a negative. But that is a net negative. An extremist view is going into absolutes, and defunding the police is an extremist absolute. Now if you want to come up with other solutions to reduce crime and place less burden on the police, that is great. That would be reasonable and is what people should be talking about.
As for defunding and/or abolishing the police, that is madness
Of course all things have diminishing returns and too much policing or too much inefficient policing can be a negative. But that is a net negative. An extremist view is going into absolutes, and defunding the police is an extremist absolute. Now if you want to come up with other solutions to reduce crime and place less burden on the police, that is great. That would be reasonable and is what people should be talking about.
As for defunding and/or abolishing the police, that is madness
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I don't think we should defund the police as much as redirect funds to help with training and use funds to help with internal affairs/corruption checks
We need money to do these things and I don't think taking money away really are going to help with that
Plus there's the fact most police are a local thing so defunding your local police isn't going to stop the issues in Minneapolis unless you live there, and even then it might be one branch that's the issue.
We need money to do these things and I don't think taking money away really are going to help with that
Plus there's the fact most police are a local thing so defunding your local police isn't going to stop the issues in Minneapolis unless you live there, and even then it might be one branch that's the issue.
@eng1 as I mentioned in my earlier post, the increase in crime was a direct result of deindustrialization and subsequent job loss/economic difficulties experienced by working class people, and it is cheaper to hire a gang of thugs to protect the rich from the desperate than it is to build and maintain adequate social programs. If you looked into the sources I referenced, there are numerous solutions that are indeed being proposed that I think are worth working towards. One that makes sense to me is hiring social workers to replace many functions police are currently being used for who are actually trained to deal with important issues like mental health and domestic violence rather than just being a gun and a license to kill with impunity. The quickest way to fund this is to use money that is currently being diverted to the police.
Other reasons why the police need to be defunded include that their budgets are often comically gargantuan and are constantly increasing at the expense of other programs and much of it is spent on incredibly expensive military equipment that they do not need because under almost no circumstances are citizens enemies that need to be eliminated (here is a very real and serious source). Police departments are also practically ruled by police unions, which have an incredibly toxic and corrupt culture that glorifies violence, prioritizes police power over actually protecting citizens and has allowed police corruption and brutality to fester largely unchecked.
@Tamerlane fortunately Minneapolis city council has already voted to defund their police. LA has pledged to do similarly. Even De Blasio has just vowed to cut NYPD funding. This is proof that these protests are indeed capable of effecting change, though it is still a long road ahead and will doubtless require constant pressure from protestors and activists lest the ball be dropped yet again.
Other reasons why the police need to be defunded include that their budgets are often comically gargantuan and are constantly increasing at the expense of other programs and much of it is spent on incredibly expensive military equipment that they do not need because under almost no circumstances are citizens enemies that need to be eliminated (here is a very real and serious source). Police departments are also practically ruled by police unions, which have an incredibly toxic and corrupt culture that glorifies violence, prioritizes police power over actually protecting citizens and has allowed police corruption and brutality to fester largely unchecked.
@Tamerlane fortunately Minneapolis city council has already voted to defund their police. LA has pledged to do similarly. Even De Blasio has just vowed to cut NYPD funding. This is proof that these protests are indeed capable of effecting change, though it is still a long road ahead and will doubtless require constant pressure from protestors and activists lest the ball be dropped yet again.
@denim They arent spending it on military equipment, the fed bought too much of it after the wars and redistributed the extra to police. It isnt part of police budgets. As for corrupt unions, yes that isnt uncommon with most unions these days unfortunately(I dont even understand why government employees need unions, they already have right to vote and all costs are paid by tax payers). The thing you posted isnt part of police buget, it is bonuses which are part of the unions waste. But it isnt part of thier core budget.
So instead of defunding or removing the police, why not get rid of the police union?
As for replacing police with social workers, all you are talking about really is dividing up the police into branches and providing special training. Kind of like how even if you want to be a dentist, you still have to go through the whole doctors program. Cause these social workers still need to be able to protect themselves and others if things do go out of hand.
Ill put it to you this wqy, defunding the police has 16% approval. Its effectively political suicide and no sane person is going to agree with it. If you change the wording to get rid of police unions and restructure police with specialized training, you would get at least 80% support. Why are you destroying your own message?
See here:
https://www.cato.org/blog/americans-agree-policing-reform
So instead of defunding or removing the police, why not get rid of the police union?
As for replacing police with social workers, all you are talking about really is dividing up the police into branches and providing special training. Kind of like how even if you want to be a dentist, you still have to go through the whole doctors program. Cause these social workers still need to be able to protect themselves and others if things do go out of hand.
Ill put it to you this wqy, defunding the police has 16% approval. Its effectively political suicide and no sane person is going to agree with it. If you change the wording to get rid of police unions and restructure police with specialized training, you would get at least 80% support. Why are you destroying your own message?
See here:
https://www.cato.org/blog/americans-agree-policing-reform
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first I am not for defunding the police. Better training, stricter testing up front and remove jobs from them that should never have been given to them such as dealing with people with mental problems. However for those that believe the defunding is because politicians agree with this I think for the most part you are wrong. I think it is just timing and they got provided an excuse or cover. With covid my area saw a decrease in tax income of 10% one month and the next 30%, 30% that's huge. While we have opened up some there will still be taxes income lost and incomes in general lost for months, some businesses here aren't going to reopen. Politicians are going to have to make some drastic cuts, likely in any area that includes high employee count, which is a big expense, which includes the police, typically an unfavorable cut. Now with this they have an excuse / cover and at the same time can at least appeal to one political faction.
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I should note that protests can cause change but whether that change will be helpful or even enforced is another matter entirely. I'd even argue that the protests may do more damage than good if they are by people who aren't as informed on the topic, or if their solutions are more problematic than the problem itself.
What I'd propose is to be specific to where we're allocating funds to, mainly funding to police training specifically and turning to community-policing and helping intervene the idea that police are members of the community and are apart of the people they interact with regularly to build mutual trust in both parties.
We'll always need police because social workers are overworked and understaffed as it is and it's unlikely they'd be able to tackle some of the cases that officers are required for, and they'd be needed to defuse active situations in ways that a social worker can't.
Also keep in mind that it's incredibly rare for police to be involved with anything that results in death, with the rate being about 1/2,000 Men and 1/33,000 women. (Black men have a rate about 1/1,000, (96 per 100,000) and Asian/Pacific Islanders have a rate of about 9 per 100,000 and 23 per 100,000 respectively. White men and boys have a risk of about 39/100,000) They account for 0.05% of all deaths of men and 0.003% of all women. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6708348/) Keep in mind that these are the just the pure findings and don't include a breakdown of if those killings were justified or not, or if they involved other intentions such as suicide, pure accidents, or other factors the police could not control for.
Additionally, a 2019 carried out by the Journal of Politics found that whilst blacks were more likely to come into lethal contact with the police, this does not indicate racial bias because of the higher rates of interaction with the police and the black community rather than any implicit or explicit bias in the police themselves. (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/703541) This study matches findings from an earlier 2018 study from Harvard that has similar findings. (https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf)
Additionally, a PNAS study found that officer race, sex, background, or ethnicity was not an accurate depicted of the likelihood of shooting and it was mostly consistent throughout. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6689929/)
Given this data, the issue is not race-based police shooting but incidents involving police in general which could be solved with better training and more resources, which themselves costs funds and would reduce the effect of police brutality substantially.
The other solution to reduce the issue would be to reduce the poverty rate of the black community so less people turn to crime, which I have repeated multiple times. This is a two-way street, and lower crime rate and more ability to acquire resources would help the black community immensely.
@denim
What I'd propose is to be specific to where we're allocating funds to, mainly funding to police training specifically and turning to community-policing and helping intervene the idea that police are members of the community and are apart of the people they interact with regularly to build mutual trust in both parties.
We'll always need police because social workers are overworked and understaffed as it is and it's unlikely they'd be able to tackle some of the cases that officers are required for, and they'd be needed to defuse active situations in ways that a social worker can't.
Also keep in mind that it's incredibly rare for police to be involved with anything that results in death, with the rate being about 1/2,000 Men and 1/33,000 women. (Black men have a rate about 1/1,000, (96 per 100,000) and Asian/Pacific Islanders have a rate of about 9 per 100,000 and 23 per 100,000 respectively. White men and boys have a risk of about 39/100,000) They account for 0.05% of all deaths of men and 0.003% of all women. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6708348/) Keep in mind that these are the just the pure findings and don't include a breakdown of if those killings were justified or not, or if they involved other intentions such as suicide, pure accidents, or other factors the police could not control for.
Additionally, a 2019 carried out by the Journal of Politics found that whilst blacks were more likely to come into lethal contact with the police, this does not indicate racial bias because of the higher rates of interaction with the police and the black community rather than any implicit or explicit bias in the police themselves. (https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/703541) This study matches findings from an earlier 2018 study from Harvard that has similar findings. (https://www.nber.org/papers/w22399.pdf)
Additionally, a PNAS study found that officer race, sex, background, or ethnicity was not an accurate depicted of the likelihood of shooting and it was mostly consistent throughout. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6689929/)
Given this data, the issue is not race-based police shooting but incidents involving police in general which could be solved with better training and more resources, which themselves costs funds and would reduce the effect of police brutality substantially.
The other solution to reduce the issue would be to reduce the poverty rate of the black community so less people turn to crime, which I have repeated multiple times. This is a two-way street, and lower crime rate and more ability to acquire resources would help the black community immensely.
@denim
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I feel sorry for the American police. No coherent strategy in dealing with the rioters, looters, vandals. Getting virtually no support from anyone in the American political spectrum(some batshit insane leftists even want to kill them). Having bullshit charges pinned on them to appease the mob..
How could anyone want to be a cop after this?
How could anyone want to be a cop after this?
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We need to defund the police, not completely, as has been stated many times by many others, but enough so that we can put more of our taxes into health care, food stamps, treatment for drug addiction, etc. And we need to muzzle police dogs. Police officers have bullets, rubber bullets, stun guns, batons, tasers, tear gas, pepper spray, and armor. If the dog is in the danger they should be able to do something about it or put them on leashes so that they don't go too far ahead of them. They should be sniffing drugs, not eating people. Teaching dogs to kill/eat people should be categorized as animal abuse. I'm sure you wouldn't want your dog to be doing or learning such things. Moreover police officers have rubber bullets, stun guns, batons, tasers, tear gas, pepper spray, and armor. Rarely, if ever, should they have to use the last resort.
