Bottom-Tier Character Tomozaki-kun

[Ageha_Yoru]

Anime teaser PV:
https://youtu.be/xe0BOheaJo4

 

[rtl_ddto]

Not the kind of development we expected, but turned out to be more better. Love it! 9/10 for me. I've been planning to read the LN to kill time while waiting for the anime adaptation next year!

 

[artdeer]

This would truly be educational and realistic if the concept of introversion and extroversion didn't exist (Though there are even more things that invalidate the entire premise of this series). Some people don't like to be around others, and thus if your concept of being a top-tier character relies on being popular and surrounded by others, aren't they doomed? Second, you can't ever invalidate the value of aesthetics and outward appearance. Her presentation of how she becomes different when gloomy with dark baggy clothes was utterly ridiculous. Am I supposed to believe that she became less attractive and became a bottom-tier character like Tomozaki? At best she became unapproachable, but people will continue to look up to her. No matter what clothes or facial expression the girl I like wore or chose, I have absolute confidence that I'd still be attracted to her. And that will be true until she completely disfigures and mutilates her face. Beauty is underrated

 

[Robinisback]

So It got an Anime Adaptation? YAY !

 

[annyuripa]

"bottom tier character" --> number 1 in the world in a game... Uhhhhhh sure thing, buddy

 

[Clone_Nero]

Finally an Update!! THANK YOU VERY MUCH

 

[SomeThingsAreWack]

@artdeer
spitting all fax, no printer.
I’m not one to endorse the MC intital “life is a shitty game hurdur” but the girl lecturing is just annoying and despite supposedly about learning how to be a normie the manga sure as fuck stretches the suspension of disbelief with its scenarios.

 

[Ageha_Yoru]

@annyuripa: not even close, he is number one in online mode in Japan, in future volume (vol 8) he will met a real pro Atafami player and Tomozaki is still below him.

@SomeThinsAreWack read the LN.

 

[artdeer]

@Ageha_Yoru

Spoiler

I'm aware that Tomozaki realizes that she's wack in all sorts of ways.

However that doesn't invalidate the reader's ire to this preacher of a woman. And does the author just drop her when it happens? Of course not, ergo it doesn't matter, she's still annoying as fuck.

Spoiler

I am glad to know that the entire premise does not revolve around her and her concept of being top-tier though.

I am curious though, does the author develop her character eventually?

Spoiler

Does she realize she's wack as fuck?

Does her presentation of how 'it's just the way you dress, your mood/attitude' to Tomozaki happen in the LN? And Tomozaki really believed her? It's the most ridiculous thing for me.

 

[Ageha_Yoru]

@artdeer
If you think Hinami is a preacher, that's because it's the way the author wants her to be portrayed. He writes her as some sort of friend, mentor, and rival. While her advices were right, some of them didn't sit right with you, if you felt that way, you're not alone. Because so did Tomozaki.

But if you want to get spoiled so badly, I'll tell you that

Spoiler

Tomozaki indeed spits that truth in front of her face in volume 3. That he doesn't want to put a facade, he doesn't want to do the quest she has given to him (confessing to Kikuchi at firework festival), because that just doesn't sit right with him. So yeah, she knows that she's somewhat distorted, although this has never been explicitly written. The author cleverly avoids revealing her emotion even in her own chapters in volume 6.5 and 8.5 (which is about her past), it's always written from third PoV as opposoded to first person narration (which the author does for other girls' chapters).

As for why Hinami became like that, while it has not been explicitly stated, the major big spoiler is

Spoiler

she changed completely around the first year of middle school, which most likely triggered by the death of her sister. Hinami in fist year of middle school was completely different person, she didn't do so well in school, her grades were average, it's also shown that she's more or like a gamer when she was in grade school, often playing against her sisters and having fun. So that sudden change (hinted by the classmate Tachibana) probably triggered by something traumatic. After her sister death (again, this has not been explicitly stated but generally it's perceived that way by the LN readers), she suddenly changed, she puts efforts, very goal-oriented, in sort, it's like she doesn't want to show weakness.

 

[JustNatsuki]

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[Lohit244]

Damn, this chapter left on a cliffhanger... i hope the next chapter won't have me waiting 6 months ⊙﹏⊙

 

[artdeer]

@Ageha_Yoru that's good I guess. "While her advices were right, some of them didn't sit right with you, if you felt that way, you're not alone. Because so did Tomozaki." You actually think she's right?

@JustNatsuki Eh I doubt that they're mutually exclusive. It's like a venn diagram where anti-social circle is inside the introvert circle. Introversion is a scale. And there's no MASSIVE difference, wtf are you exaggerating for.

 

[Ageha_Yoru]

@artdeer:

Spoiler

her advice on self-improvment are on point, like how she gave him the tips to buy clothes (look at magazine and buy cheaper/affordable clothes from the brand you like), how to observe the flow of conversation, getting your suggestion accepted by the group/steering the conversation, later she teaches him how to not be so passive in group communication and be a bit more aggresive as not to be underestimated by other people. I think accepting that those tips are spot-on and actually doing/practicing those things is two different things. I have to admit that I don't practice it myself, but I know for a fact that some Tomozaki fans in Japan have practiced those life tips in real life and some worked for them, some people struggled, but they don't give up. I think that's the point of the series, to never give up on your self-improvement.

I know you find those "life tips" too preachy and perhaps give you social anxiety, actually I encountered another hater who dropped the LN halfway volume 1 for same reason because he thinks the series is a textbook (it's his opinion). Another complaint I sometimes found is "the author glorifies normies too much", which is once again just an opinion. I don't get why some people couldn't enjoy the story for what it is and get personally attacked when the author tries to write "hey, maybe being more sociable and having friends isn't such a bad idea".

I can only say if you hate the idea of a loner who genuinely wants to be more extrovert/open to people, improves his communication skills, learns how to dress nicely, goes on a date with a girl, hangs out with people, perhaps this is not for you. If you're looking for an unconventional protagonist who's comfortable with him being alone and not giving a damn about his surroundings, Yugami-kun wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai is the kind of manga you're looking for.

But for me, I can enjoy both types of MC, you don't really have to put yourself in protagonist's shoes like self-inserting because by doing so, you may get irritated by author's personal preferences that differ from yours.

 

[artdeer]

@Ageha_Yoru heh fair enough. I don't necessarily dislike the idea of being outgoing, the point I'm trying to make is that the concept of being top-tier is relative and is specific to each person. Hence, one's idea of 'self-improvement' is different from one another. If some guy thinks his situation sucks and being outgoing and social would change it, then that's good for him. I guess Tomozaki did consider himself a bottom-tier character so change was imperative. I'm still not sure if Hinami was the right person to ask advice from, she seems to be none the wiser.

I'm not necessarily getting icky from the author but from the character of Hinami herself (aside from that ridiculous presentation I can't seem to shake off). These types of people are annoying in real life.

Yeah and I've finished Yugami-kun wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai, I did like it. But the guy is on another side of the spectrum and a bit too extreme for my taste. But then again that's what I'm talking about. His ideas of what's good is different from other people and his methods of self-improvement appear weird to people because they see different concepts of being 'top-tier.'

 

[JustNatsuki]

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[artdeer]

@JustNatsuki

ASPD is a personality disorder characterized by a long-term pattern of disregard for, or violation of, the rights of others. A low moral sense or conscience is often apparent, as well as a history of crime, legal problems, or impulsive and aggressive behavior.

- Wikipedia
I think we're talking about different things. I'm not talking about ~antisocial~ that extreme, just people who really don't like being with people, and just enjoy their lonesome. I don't think that it's a disorder nor a problem.

Our MC shows very few emotions in the first chapter, shows recklessness because he chooses to play games all day while ignoring responsibilities, gets irritable just because of one person judging him, and he continually deviates from basic human responsibilities. He imposes his own standards on other people despite not meeting those standards himself. All symptoms and traits people with ASPD typically have.

Not the one to go are you an expert? But diagnosing a disorder from the getgo is irresponsible in itself. Also this is what I'm talking about, you're thinking he's a bottom-tier character because that is YOUR standard. I doubt he's devoid of emotion and care for others like what ASPD and you suggest.

Spoiler

Otherwise the climactic devlopment in volume 3 does not happen.

Even if he is, Hinami definitely is not the person to come for advice, he needs a psychiatrist not a fellow highschool student. I doubt the author even intended to write Tomozaki as a person suffering from such a serious mental disorder, you're going too far with this.

For the record my Myers-Briggs PT says I'm ENTP, though I'm teetering at 50%+ on the scale of introversion/extroversion. inb4 MBPT is trash yeah it's just a neat indicator, nothing serious.

 

[JustNatsuki]

I don't want to be tagged by random people 8 months from now, so these are gone

 

[artdeer]

@JustNatsuki

I think we're talking about different things. I'm not talking about ~antisocial~ that extreme, just people who really don't like being with people, and just enjoy their lonesome. I don't think that it's a disorder nor a problem.

Yeah, that's exactly what I'm saying. You are conflating introversion with when someone doesn't like being with people all the time.
I'm saying from my experience the MC is exhibiting symptoms that are common among people with ASPD.

Wut? This is literally my original comment: Some people don't like to be around others, and thus if your concept of being a top-tier character relies on being popular and surrounded by others, aren't they doomed? Where and when did I conflate it with ASPD?

Yes. I have taken formal schooling in Psychology and have helped numerous peers in turning away from suicidal thoughts and self harm.

Yet you have no degree, and your good deeds do not make you an expert.

Not everyone is rich like you.
Not everyone can afford to hire a psychiatrist.

True. Of course the solution is to one-sidedly trust the words and advices of a person you've come to know for the first time.

I didn't mention once that I think he's a bottom-tier character. You keep moving the goal post and claiming things I haven't said.

That's just rhetoric. We're talking about whether or not he needs self-improvement. And I've labeled this need in my past posts as being a 'bottom-tier' character, as the title suggests.

Pure conjecture. And many people suffering from mental disorders simply don't get help or think they don't need help. There are far more people suffering from these diseases than you think. The percentage of people that actually get help for their problems is minute. Me "going too far" has saved some of my closest friends from ending their lives.

True, but so is your diagnosis of his ASPD.

 

[JustNatsuki]

@artdeer Aight. Good to know you are entirely helpless and extremely naive. Bye.