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From next timeThe campaign to keep it Estonia failed....
From next timeThe campaign to keep it Estonia failed....
Okay, that's a big nice toast of Ana-bashing you've served us here. Unfortunately, I'm not buying your reasoning. In fact, I'm even convinced you completely missed what her real mindset actually is. That's why I invite you to attentively re-read the whole story, especially the chapter 19 that gives important hints about her circumstances.She wouldn't let her classist attitude be an issue when it really matters, sure, and I reckon, if it was anyone other than Allen, she would have been acting more respectfully. But since she is a tsundere, her status is a convenient way to mask her feelings, and it makes her act more classist towards him.
She has not made it clear to him yet. Though obviously he doesn't mind either way
And my opinion of her is a sum of those insignificant but slightly excessive acts. Like the fact that she refers to him without honorifics (if the TL is to be believed) - unlike her friends, who refer to him as "Allen-kun"; or how she has borderline violently grabbed him on at least two occasions, with both of them having the understanding that he wouldn't dare grab her back; or the way she talks to him mostly in imperatives, and acts like it is a given that he will comply
Nah, it would've been one another thing to keep me up at night otherwise.
It's not something he wanted or needed, and it's not like they bowed to him. And if they do feel like bowing in his general direction was humiliating, that's one more reason for them to target him, so she's really putting him on the spot.
As far as I can see, "practically begging her father" is the full extent of things she did to keep him and his family safe, and it's not like the Duke needed much convincing. Making sure those who did a service to the duchy are not harmed as a consequence of said service is a bare minimum of gratitude I'd expect from anyone remotely decent. If anything, it is a pragmatic thing to do, otherwise it sends a message of "don't bother protecting interests of the duchy, we wouldn't give a fuck if something happens to you".
The way their relationship will conclude was obvious sinceChapter 1synopsis, we know how she feels about him and how he feels about her. He knows her personality and doesn't mind those quirks of her, this little is not nearly enough to turn him away from her. The thread is me explaining how I feel about her and her attitude, and it obviously doesn't resonate with people, but nevertheless, I see Anastasia as an ungrateful and entitled person, she is someone who will honor the deal and compensate you the way she considers appropriate, but she would show zero appreciation for your services unless she absolutely has to. She might have makings of a great lord, and she might be someone to bring happiness and prosperty to her subjects, but I wouldn't want to get personally involved with her. Unlike Allen.
Actually, after rereading some of the earlier chapters, I see her as a bigger tsun than I initially thought
Do tell me, what are those, and how do they justify her continuing treating Allen like a servant?especially the chapter 19 that gives important hints about her circumstances.
Her engagement with the crown prince had been decided when she was only 8 years old. Since then, she has been raised, trained, and even hard-wired to become the future queen. No more, no less. Least we can say is that she not exactly had a normal childhood, if any childhood at all...Anastasia said:A loveless political marriage.
Anastasia said:How fortunate I've been.
That is indeed pitiful (though quite a bit trite for the genre), but Allen had no part in her childhood being the way it is. If she has any grievances about her childhood, she'd better take it with those responsible, not with Allen.Her engagement with the crown prince had been decided when she was only 8 years old. Since then, she has been raised, trained, and even hard-wired to become the future queen. No more, no less. Least we can say is that she not exactly had a normal childhood, if any childhood at all...
Those moments of introspection don't do it for me. Occasionally thinking that maybe she's had it easy does not mean she is level with those who actually went through struggle. My issue is not with how she thinks - the manga tells us that she's a good girl and she thinks about the struggles of the common folk - but with how she acts. As I am not gonna hold her responsible for thoughtcrime, so I am not gonna applaud her for being well-meaning in her thoughts.Meanwhile, I don't think she's as entitled as you say. Quite the opposite actually. She perfectly checked her privilege.
Anastasia said:How fortunate I've been.
She is entitled in both historical and modern meanings of the word. She holds the title of a daughter of a Duke (well maybe that's not a real title, but she is a noble and holds all the priveleges coming with this position), and she's quite content leveraging her title - knowingly or subconsciously - against Allen.I don't think she's as entitled as you say
As of this chapter, I look at how Anastasia acts, and it makes me not like her as a person. If something about her changes in the following chapters, I might reevaluate what I think about her, I would even commend the manga if it shows her changing organically, but this snapshot of her would most likely stay in my mind as that of an entitled tsundere.And as @EldritchNeko commented before, "We're talking a lot about something that probably isn't going to matter all that much".
I don't see that as a fair repayment for the service Allen did. Not to the extent that would justify her treating him like a servant anyway.The way Ansastasia looks at Allen, talks to him (at least in private), and even SMILES AT HIM. That literally speaks volumes !
Now that you made me reread chapter 19, she had been acting much more reasonably around Allen back then, like properly and even somewhat formally thanking him for his service and giving him space to respond and reject her requests. It is when she got more familiar with him and started having feelings for him, that's when she started acting around him with less restraint. And this switch in attitude reinforces my belief that she is a tsundere.#DefinitelyNotATsundere.
Grievances? What grievances? Trauma and sorrow at worst. And still, she is certainly not holding Allen any grudge for that.That is indeed pitiful (though quite a bit trite for the genre), but Allen had no part in her childhood being the way it is. If she has any grievances about her childhood, she'd better take it with those responsible, not with Allen.
So you think they are in a mercantile relationship? "I did that much for you so you owe me that much"? That's a pretty distressing point of view.I don't see that as a fair repayment for the service Allen did. Not to the extent that would justify her treating him like a servant anyway.
I shall repeat, she hasn't really the choice. Nobility can look fancy yet it's a quite toxic environment. Due to her Future Queen status, she is constantly the center of attention: scrutinized, observed and judged. Her public image is of utmost importance. So, no she couldn't afford to act like a "normal" person there, for obvious reasons. At least if she cherishes her own credibility. Not to even mention the solemnity of that ceremony where she basically subdues and humbles her worst enemies...As of this chapter, I look at how Anastasia acts, and it makes me not like her as a person.
Then why bring up her trauma and sorrow in the first place, if Allen has nothing to do with them? "She acts the way she does because of her trauma" is the best interpretation of this argument I could come up with.And still, she is certainly not holding Allen any grudge for that.
I think they are in an one-sided master-servant relationship, where Anastasia does more of "take" and less of "give", while retaining the right to treat Allen the way she does.So you think they are in a mercantile relationship?
My point is that she owes him not to treat him like her property at the very least."I did that much for you so you owe me that much"?
The repayment has not even been offered or discussed, and this not-even-a-promise of repayment does not entitle her to act the way she does.And even if there should be a proper repayment, nobody said it had to be immediate either. Wait and see...
Again, not yet. The best thing the Ramslett family did was grant him their protection, which neither he nor his mother even needed before the incident.And now, he has practically been adopted by the Ramslett family. The best life insurance he could dream of (that also covers his mom). How can you consider this unfair or unbalanced?
And I shall repeat, there are other ways to behave around Allen while maintaining her credibility and granting Allen dignity he deserves. Face-grabbing Allen undermines both of those.I shall repeat, she hasn't really the choice.
You've made some excellent points! You even managed to get [mgRdr] to slightly concede on one of them! (nominally, at least) However it seems, unfortunately, that [mgRdr] is rather convinced of their own perspective, and is unwilling to view it in any other way - which is of course their right as an individual capable of having a perspective (I've done the same before myself).Grievances? What grievances? Trauma and sorrow at worst. And still, she is certainly not holding Allen any grudge for that.
Nah, the only thing she can blame allen for ATM is being the reason why she's being teased so often by her parents and her friends. And basically that's it
So you think they are in a mercantile relationship? "I did that much for you so you owe me that much"? That's a pretty distressing point of view.
And even if there should be a proper repayment, nobody said it had to be immediate either. Wait and see...
Anyway, a dozen chapters ago, Allen was merely an insect for her. And now, he has practically been adopted by the Ramslett family. The best life insurance he could dream of (that also covers his mom). How can you consider this unfair or unbalanced?
I shall repeat, she hasn't really the choice. Nobility can look fancy yet it's a quite toxic environment. Due to her Future Queen status, she is constantly the center of attention: scrutinized, observed and judged. Her public image is of utmost importance. So, no she couldn't afford to act like a "normal" person there, for obvious reasons. At least if she cherishes her own credibility. Not to even mention the solemnity of that ceremony where she basically subdues and humbles her worst enemies...
But should Anastasia and Allen have some quiet moment (away from prying eyes) later in the story, then the atmosphere may become very different. I kindly advise everyone to keep their insulin ready.![]()
If you want to discuss he-who-shall-not-be-named and the way they conduct this discussion, feel free to quote them directly, this way, they will see it in their notifications and may be able to respond.[mgRdr]
However it seems, unfortunately, that [mgRdr] is rather convinced of their own perspective, and is unwilling to view it in any other way
Well, so is the other partyThey seem quite dead set on maintaining their perspective regardless of anyone else's input
Do you need my acknowledgement of your acknowledgement? You may - or may not - have changed your mind about certain points, what would me bringing that up would achieve?From what I can see, their quote points (where they reference what we've said) seem to distinctly lack the parts in which we acknowledge their points
Feel free to bring them up again, I tried answering everything that seemed like a pointed argument. If you think there are points which you think I should address, I'll do my best to answer them.or make arguments they don't have a counter for
Just get over with it and say you don't like hime-sama falls in love with commoner MC tropes or whatever your beef is.If you want to discuss he-who-shall-not-be-named and the way they conduct this discussion, feel free to quote them directly, this way, they will see it in their notifications and may be able to respond.
Well, so is the other party
Do you need my acknowledgement of your acknowledgement? You may - or may not - have changed your mind about certain points, what would me bringing that up would achieve?
Feel free to bring them up again, I tried answering everything that seemed like a pointed argument. If you think there are points which you think I should address, I'll do my best to answer them.
I don't like "hime-sama being ungrateful and entitled towards commoner MC" trope, that's what my beef is. If she confesses, then my beef is effectively over, but so long as she's gonna keep acting tsundere towards her saviour, I am gonna be having this beefand say you don't like hime-sama falls in love with commoner MC tropes or whatever your beef is
It takes two (or more) to argue. I stated my opinion, and the argument is people trying to prove me wrong. Or do you imply I should retract my opinion just because someone decided to challenge it?At this point you just keep arguing for the sake of arguing my guy.
Again, if I haven't addressed something, feel free to bring that up againdirectly refuting
Thank you it has most of the chapter just missing the extra and the afterwords but thanks againread it on novelhall, from chapter 47-48
After remembering that "this is a game world, and the real focus is only this nation", then it makes prefect sense, agreed.yeah and "zaus" -> south
loving it
I deliberately excluded you, because I did not want to continue interacting with you. I still do not wish to interact with you. I've given up on attempting to sway your interpretation.If you want to discuss he-who-shall-not-be-named and the way they conduct this discussion, feel free to quote them directly, this way, they will see it in their notifications and may be able to respond.
Well, so is the other party
Do you need my acknowledgement of your acknowledgement? You may - or may not - have changed your mind about certain points, what would me bringing that up would achieve?
Feel free to bring them up again, I tried answering everything that seemed like a pointed argument. If you think there are points which you think I should address, I'll do my best to answer them.
But you couldn't leave it well alone, that's why you had to sneakily post another comment about how [mgRdr] is so stubborn and unwilling to change their perspective for the objectively correct one. So here we are, still interacting.I deliberately excluded you, because I did not want to continue interacting with you.
You demonstrating that you acknowledge our points
Is me directly quoting and responding to your points does not constitute their acknowledgement?When both parties acknowledge each others' points, it shows that ... they're genuinely listening to what the other party has to say.
I do not consider trying to explain my perspective with some alleged personal circumstances a sign of respect towards me and my arguments, so I guess respect wasn't there in the first place; and if you think about it, there is something intrinsicly disrespectful about the whole idea of trying to sway somebody's perspective because you disagree with it. But I do honestly appreciate an attempt to discuss it at the very least.it shows that they respect each other
But you didn't really, unless you consider "she might be ever so slightly tsundere" a meaningful concession, meanwhile it seems it is expected of me to concede my whole perspective.but I also take pride in being able to suppress my pride and concede a point
FOR DEMOCRA- oops wrong franchise, played too much of that game latelyI can't wait for MC to carpet bomb the Empire
We're miscommunicating. Let's just stop.But you couldn't leave it well alone, that's why you had to sneakily post another comment about how [mgRdr] is so stubborn and unwilling to change their perspective for the objectively correct one. So here we are, still interacting.
Is me directly quoting and responding to your points does not constitute their acknowledgement?
I do not consider trying to explain my perspective with some alleged personal circumstances a sign of respect towards me and my arguments, so I guess respect wasn't there in the first place; and if you think about it, there is something intrinsicly disrespectful about the whole idea of trying to sway somebody's perspective because you disagree with it. But I do honestly appreciate an attempt to discuss it at the very least.
Or the implication that I am sticking to my objectively incorrect perspective only because of my pride, that part really screams respect yo. And so you feel the need to patronizingly impart your hard-lived knowledge of being proven incorrect, because of course it is only my lack of experience of being proven wrong which prevents me from discarding my objectively incorrect perspective.
But you didn't really, unless you consider "she might be ever so slightly tsundere" a meaningful concession, meanwhile it seems it is expected of me to concede my whole perspective.
Not just a noble title, the panties of the woman he loves.. I mean her hand in marriage.I feel like war is inevitable, but thankfully, it won’t take place IN the Capital city, but outside in the wilderness between borders. Cause if it’s like any of the mob stories I’ve read, his skills will no doubt get him a nobility title
All. All of the above !Not just a noble title, the panties of the woman he loves.. I mean her hand in marriage.