Death March kara Hajimaru Isekai Kyousoukyoku

[xeno77]

@refki thats a long ass comment and basically u just wanted to tell me the World building is way better in the novel
i think its kinda dumb that people decide to cut stuff out if they make an manga /anime version cause u have a wholesome story and u could make them more alive with pictures but no we destroy the story and make it more 0815 and everything cause of money

 

[refki]

@xeno77 yes, and no. The manga, if you follow it thoroughly, is almost 99% of the LN visualized. Especially in the first 15 chapters. They cut nothing, not a single scene, maybe just some internal monologue.

If the manga is almost the same like the LN, so why many reader still thinking this mangas world building is not "deep" enough?

The answer is because the nature of serialization.... This manga just release 1 chapter each month. Almost every reader who only read the manga tend to forget some information 5-10 chapters ago, nevermind the detail or lore. If i ask a random reader what is the Zenas story about dragon, not even half may remember it. Or about Gabo fruit? Why it must be cultivated in the walled city? Or how it is so valuable even though it is not delicious?

Even if the author planned & crated so much detail for the world building, whats the point of it if almost all the reader forget about it first before it get explained. They will just think that is just some "garbage info" and wont think about it, just to be confused and bashing it for it slowness of pace later. Like about Dragon, the info is appeared around chapter 1-5 in the manga, but they will only appear first in the novel vol. 7 (for manga it will be around chapter 90-110, even as the LN & WN fans i never see the illustration of the dragon even ONCE until now, just their description in text). You can see the example of their bashing it now in this comment section...

This problem dont appear in LN. Why? Because not like in a novel, which release in a bulk volume, this manga release like dripping water from a morning dew in Sahara desert, just so little amount in such a long time waiting. 1 volume of novel released every 4 months, but this manga just release 4 chapter (not even half volume) in that same amount of time.

Mind you, even if this manga is already at 70ish chapter, for LN volume it just in the 5th book. Not even half of the plot hole & world building is shown to the reader.

Edit:
- For whoever think this story is slow, yes you are right. This is just a documentary of how a company worker get isekaied & how he enjoy his unpaid vacation in another world. And at the same time, unconciously saving it.
- For whoever think this story is bad or shallow, just like any other wish-fulfiling isekai story, i suggest you to start reading it in bulk. Binge read it in 9-15 chapters at once. You will see how far the foreshadowing they do, how deep their lore, how many plot hole in there to be explained/used later, how detail this world "law & nature" regarding level, skill, mana, magic, spirit, (the last 3 not yet explained in the manga) etc.
- For whoever think that this is the same easygoing adventure harem story like "Isekai Smartphone" or "Kenja no Mago", i suggest you to go to the optician. Just to check if there's something wrong with your eyes. Because this story is definitely not the same like that. Its like you compare Bayern Munich FC vs your elementary school football/soccer team*. They play the same game, but different grade of finesse.

*Edit 2:
I'm sorry, this is too degrading, i like their story too, just not as much as this. What i really mean is its like Bayern Munich FC vs Guangzhou Evergrande.

 

[djchen]

gave it several more chapters but its progressively getting more and more tedious to read.

 

[Pucci83]

A good read if you wanna turn your brain off.

 

[xeno77]

@refki if u have no idea after rereading it where everything is u cant call it good world building
i mean yes i do know where the town is but not really

 

[refki]

@xeno77 just imagine it like MCU's WandaVision series. They have the same "boring" scene like slice of life genre, but at some moments they have packed action scenes too. They do have massive world building (MCU with their cameo, inter-film actor/character roles, callback, & easter eggs and Death March with its massive lore, level & skill system). But instead of 20 minutes episode once per week, in Death March, we get 10 minutes read once per 1 month waiting time instead.

At that much time difference, you can have so much easter eggs (foreshadowing) or lore & world building settings, the fans will started to forget about all that in 3-4 chapters too in the end (in this case, in the matter of 3-4 months, which is normal if you are not a huge fan who reread it every 2 months or so). Mostly, they will just remember the main story outline (heck, even some of them started to forget the MC's motivation & background already).

 

[xeno77]

@refki so cause its called world building the first thing i think of is not backround stories but actual world building(idk if u get what i mean )
so that u can imagine how the world looks like i think thats way more important then backround stories

 

[refki]

@xeno77 oh, I'm sorry, mate. I think whe have a different concept regarding "world building" so thats why our discussion kinda missing the point.

From what i know:
World building is a whole setting. From the deep background storyline (especially if its about the place, legend, myth, era that building all the stage for the story), scenery, npc, building, etc. Everything that "build" the "world" to be like the stage for the story we know, is a part of "world building". That's why in my argumen i include some background story & npc/side characters arc.

What i think about "world building" that you know is:
Just some building in the world. Whatever that you can see, exist in that world as a stage for the story. Like a backdrop in a stage play in your drama session in your school auditorium. From the trees, palace, house, mountain, etc. Just property.

From that difference in understanding, comes the difference in the point of discussion.

For me, the GOOD "world building" is everything about the world. The author lore, the history of the place, the liveliness of the side character (how the story can make us feel like everyone is a main character for their own story), till the smallest detail like an item property & the architecture. The more detail they give, the more i can "dive" to the story, the more clever they van bring it to me naturally, and later use it in some later arc. That geniusity is what i call a GOOD world building.

The difference is, for you, maybe, the GOOD "world building" is the stage. How good they can make the backdrop. How artsy it is, how unique each place. For you, maybe, the level of world building is determined by how GOOD the artist can make you truly believe they are in a different place at different time/setting/scene. How the house in giants village can look different with the house in human city. How an architecture & environment can feel different in different places. If you think this story world building is BAD because the inability of the artist to draw different scenery & use draw distance scaling, then you're god damn right.

Just see the Giants village tree & Trazayuyas Cradle. Those 2 supposed to be a giant, huge ass tree, like an Ygdrasil, but the inability of the artist to draw it perfectly just made to be look like a zoomed in tree. And dont get me started with the architectural aspect.... The building in Seiryuu city (a well enough capital city in a far off land) is almost the same like a building in Muno city (the impoverished lands capital). And the giants village, oh boy... I cant even see the "giantness" of their building & infrastructure. Its like everything happen in the same place. At that point of view, i agree with you.

But then again, if we go with my understanding of "world building" those defect is minor, and can be somewhat logically accepted. They still in the same kingdom, so it is understandable of the scenery, environment, and even architecture is somewhat look like the same.

Just so you know, (i hope) it will be better, as later in the story they will be going to many different places

Spoiler

after this they will go to Duchy/old capital, a more well off metropolitan area as a center of trade & industry along the big river (the city that MC mention baout its riverside view already in the manga). Later they go to Elf village (this stage & scenery is supposed to be significantly different with human majority dwelling we saw till now, it is in a super wide forest like a sea of trees). Then to southern archipelago, if at that point the artist still draw the same building like now i will personally smack him in the face. He/she live in Japan FFS! Its an archipelago! He/she has so many material to draw from. Just buy a railway ticket to a village in southern Japan and draw there!

so at that time we can truly see the artist skill in (your term) "world building" to bring us the world in the story.

 

[xeno77]

@refki to the world building part iam satisfied if u give me the map of the world (i think u know but gonna say it anyway, normally if u write a story with a new world u make a map of it or at least thats what my English teacher once told me xD ) + the normal stuff with backround stories like a little bit detail but i dont need to know what every plant u see is called

iam kinda sad that most of the time people choose the cheapest option i mean yeah u are probably gonna make more money that way but if u make a good novel into a shitty 0815 isekai cause u choose the cheapest artist u definitely did something wrong
i dont know y but for some reason every fucking isekai mc needs to look like a clone sometimes they choose to make the art not that much 0815 but make the story really shitty ( thats for example the 3001 version of ... is the weakest shit + we need the haha u are so weak shit at the beginning, seriously like why do people buy this (if they dont it wouldn't exist for the 3001 time)) u have tye choice between that and something new that looks cool but gets dropped cause no one buys it like wtf is wrong with u

 

[refki]

@xeno77 for map, it is still a mystery why the author dont give us a single map yet (nevermind the world or continent, at least the Shiga kingdom). From The detail description in LN & WN, it is impossible to write it with so much detail without having the (atleast) rough map of the continent. My guess is because the LN is still on going and right now they are
(in Japanese release) in journey traveling around the world+saving it at the same time (basically a world tour). So they need to prolong or shorten it according to the sales, if its good, they will add more territory & problem to solve, if its not, they can easily cut it and just go with the main plot. Hence they cant just release a full map. Because doing it will set a "goal" for the story to keep continuing till all the territory/kingdoms all explored (hence making it an "obligation" to fans to keep continuing the story till the end, no matter how many losses they made. For the sake of publisher image, they cant easily axed the story) or even limiting it to just explore the listed territory/kingdom, cant make it possible to add more to prolong the story or even LN exclusive story (hence they cant add more, limiting their possible profit).

When the MC enter a new territory, he always use his "Search Entire Map" magic at the start. So, usually in LN & WN we always granted 2-3 paragraphs of the territorial outline, shape, size, position, population, etc. In this manga, because they get rid most of descriptive internal monologue, the MC dont "tell" all (2-3 paragraphs) of it for the reader, but just limit it to some 3-5 lines.

But, if you want the author confirmed, fan made map:
https://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/46454/is-there-a-map-for-the-death-marchs-world

That it just a map for some part of Oyugoch Duchy territory (along the big river). With no scale, but in LN it is said as big as Japans main island, Honshu.

For the details, yeah sometimes i think that is too much, but believe me man, when you keep reading it, keep swallowing the almost garbage like info, you will know...nothing in this world is 100% garbage. At the correct opportunities, these "garbage info" will show their values, and you will be amazed, like "wait, they already tell us about this long ago. So thats how it is going from the start". Usually this happen at the span of 1-2 volume of novel (10-17 chapters of manga), but some of them is like the Dragon & God lore, foreshadowing in the span of more than 100 chapters.

Edit, or added i must said:
For cheap artist, yeah i feel you. I hope they can hire the "Eminence of Shadow" grade artist. That mangas art is dope.

For generic-like MC, from a writer perspective, i kinda know why they make it like that (boring, almost same like other isekai MC). It is for the sake of readers self-insert. How & why?

That is to make the reader become easier to feel like experience the story first hand. To make them think, the story as some part of their own experience, not just MCs. Its like the mannequin hand experiment. When you see something that look like yourself (either a hand or character that looks just like you), whatever things happen to it you started to feel it too. For men it is like when you see a video of some other man get a hit at the crotch. Even if its someone experience, it is not you yourself that experienced it, you still feel the "imaginary/empathical" pain and start to put your hand at your crotch too. At that moment, you put yourself in the man's/MC place, sharing the same experience.

This thing can be achieved with high possibility if the target audience (reader) is similar with the model (MC). In mannequin hand experiment, the possibility will be lower if the mannequin hand is with the wrong race color. Or wrong/too different shape. For imaginary pain experiment, too much different the physic/image (a real life character vs a cartoon character get hit in the crotch) will lower the probability.

So thats why, to make the story more enjoyable, to make the reader has deeper understanding, to make them feel the same experience as the MC, many stories design their MC as close as possible with their target audience trait. If you want to make story for a child, make the MC a child too, or at least act childish as close as the target audience age's. Want to make story for Japanese teenage schooler? Just make the MC look like them. With nationwide popular hair cut (black-straight-short), average physic height & weight, standard hobby & popular knowledge (games, anime, manga) to make them relevant. Thats why almost all isekai stories MC you see in here has almost same trait.

Want to see sone different MC? Just read Accel World. Good teenage action Adventure story, well enough art, but it has just 1 mistake: the MC is short & fat. Dude, this story released in Japan. They have universal healthcare coverage in there, the percentage of obesity is low. Not many audience/reader can relate and "self-insert" themselves in MC experience. So there it is, a good story wasted.

 

[xeno77]

@refki yeah i get that but u cant tell me everyone in Japan looks like that
and i said clone cause they look like it
i mean u could make the mc look a bit more original but most of the time they dont

 

[refki]

@xeno77 yes, yes they can. But "originality" is the antonym of "average". To use 'self-insert' psychological effect, that "originality" must be supressed. So they can maximize the amount of reader to relate with the MC.

This Isekai genre is different like action-adventure genre like Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, or even Dragon ball. These action-adventure genre need to have their own original & unique MC, because their MC is not for self-insert, but to admire & watch. These are for us to see their struggle & adventure, not to experience it. Thats why almost all of them is an orphan, because their author dont even think of similarity with their target audience (c'mon, Japanese people is not like African-American. Their dad dont automatically vanish when their mom got pregnant. The percentage of orphan and single parent is small in there) and they are too lazy to think about many character at once in the beginning. Hence the MC always start alone/lonely in their home.

Why this isekai genre need this "self-insert" so much that its sacrifices it's MC right to be unique & original?

See the history, man. This genre started by 80s videogames called Dragon quest. A game about an adventure in fantasy, D&D/LOTR based, medieval europe setting. That game is a floodgate opener for todays JRPG & RPG genre as a whole. Their lookalike is thousands. Almost every todays JRPG use them as a benchmark at first. Their popularity reaching not just game industry, but to manga & anime too. The sensation to play the game, control the character, and "be the MC" is what truly apparent from their adaptation. Without it, you can just have mediocre LOTR/D&D ripoffs. Just story about sone other people you dont know in the world you dont even feel familiar with. The only silver lining is to make the reader/audience "to experience it too", so they start to modified the opening act by supernatural clause, either reincarnation or other god-like superstitious magic to bring the "MC" from our world to theirs. Making the reader/audience can relate: "How about if its me who get there?" That and by limiting MC uniqueness & originality so more people can imagine themselves in MC experience/story. Just like playing/watching other people playing the game.

 

[Okama-Sanji]

Walls of text and the two beast girls irked me to rate 5/10. Too many wasted panels, with context just copied to the next.
Characters lack depth as does the story.

Art too is at most mediocre.

 

[xeno77]

@refki ok yeah i get that but i see a lot of people complaining about how 0815 the mcs in isekais are and the popular stuff is not the 0815 stuff but something original (yeah ok no idea how its in japan but i cant imagine 0815 stuff being popular)

 

[DentaDen]

@bejad007 thanks for that manga. I really liked all of em

 

[Saiangeli]

Its just.. really boring. Like alot of people said theres alot of useless random pages of text that have nothing to do with the plot.

 

[AStrangerIsHere]

I'm always surprised each time I read an isekai. Surprised how the Japanese can take one of my favorite genre, fantasy, and make it so bland and boring. Because yes, this manga is bland. Not bad, mind you, just bland. You mostly see maps with dots while reading the MC's thoughts. And he thinks a lot. The artist is to blame for that I guess, they can't show so they tell, and all that reading show the origin of this manga, which is a novel (light or web, I don't really know). The drawings are good but the lack of creativity in the panelling make the reading tedious and boring. Also the MC is almost always expressionless, this may be a me problem but it makes it hard to relate to him.

And that's maybe 3/4 of the manga, for the rest, he goes in secret to do something, his harem (?) eat, brush their hair, they... do things. And he keeps getting new titles and skills but they're irrelevant. And I guess, here it's the author that is to blame.

But like I said, it's not bad. When I have nothing else, I can read it. It doesn't particularly entertain me but it doesn't make me want to close the tab either so I guess this is a quality in itself.

 

[remlei]

i really liked the webnovel a lot, the manga version is a visualized version of the novel it self, minus the monologues which how the stuff works like the alchemy, creating a magic spell explaining it works similarly to a interpreter you use for programming language in computer, etc....

so far im liking the retelling version specially the new additions on muno arc. but the latest 2 volumes in light novel is either meh or just un-necessary filler, and what's with my dear mito, she's just depressed... a lot, too much of it actually I almost throwaway my tablet, wtf is hiiro-sensei is doing, just copy pasta the stuff in the web novel no need to complicate stuff. though I actually can see where hiiro-sensei is doing here, basically applying that concept found near end chapters of the web novel

Spoiler

which tackles about Satou-san is a collection of souls in different worlds. which make sense why he gets those flashbacks as if it was not his own

 

[RedLinesV]

Do you like little girls? If so this manga is for all the pedobears

 

[TheProtectorOfPureHeartedGirls]

HEIKE is sleeping on the job!