GATE - Jieitai Kanochi nite, Kaku Tatakaeri - Vol. 23 Ch. 124

[1234muse]

Oh yeah, forgot this was toned down.
I probably should read the LN and web novels in the future myself.

Can't really blame him with hating journalists though lol.

look, at least it isn't zipang. that one goes too far

 

[Fugutron]

look, at least it isn't zipang. that one goes too far

I'd say Zipang is better than this. This is pure Grade C Weeb Tom clancy

 

[Yokubou]

Nice adaptation on their part to bad that uuh yeah JSDF can just.. adapt to it too

JDSF already knew the capabilities of the wyverns, whereas the Empire don't have enough intel on helicopters.
They were dumb for flying into a canyon without recon in the first place. They could've have multi-roles drop thermobaric to flush out any potential ambushers in caves if they didn't want to risk ground based recon.

Or better yet, just avoid the canyon altogether, since Recci was shown to be located in a clear field so that means they didn't need to take the scenic route.

 

[radstylix]

You really think their will be balanced to modern weapon vs roman times weapon yeah they might have dragons but unless they use the adult types they can't really do anything.

I said the GATE fantasy world (and its magic) in general. Obviously, Roman Empire-era technology is no match for modern tech. I like the series, but GATE fantasy world is kinda generic and has a lot of missed opportunities. And, any decent fantasy author (emphasis on fantasy author) would've made things even to compensate for the lack of technology:

• They could've made up some sort of ridiculously strong or magical metal (adamantium, etc.) that no bullet could pierce. They'd be extremely rare or expensive to make up for it. Imagine one of those ogres/trolls kitted in one of those flipping a tank. Could still be vulnerable to fire or explosives... maybe! Militaries and industrial/manufacturing/aerospace/etc. companies around the world would be very curious about this metal! I kinda chuckle at the idea of an adamantium Lambo heh.
• They would not have made magic weak or too much of a hassle to use like the GATE author did. I wouldn't mind if they started weak VS modern technology, but because of modern knowledge (and fictional literature), they learned to use magic way more effectively or made new magic. Yes, Lelei did this herself, but she's one of the MCs on the good side. Imagine if someone from Zorzal or some other antagonist got a hold of that knowledge, and spread throughout the GATE's isekai world. Or heck, if mages that can fire off huge explosions from a distance ALA Megumin already exist before the JSDF arrived, the JSDF would be slower with their progress.
• Anyone from the modern world, especially doctors and rich elites, would be highly tempted that healing magic, regeneration, longer lifespans (elves), and immortality (Rory) exist. So they, particularly the elites, would've been bribing people left and right to get their hands or learn about any one of those, and interfering with the JSDF if they get in their way. The isekai world can tempt or trade this knowledge (for technology and modern knowledge) to keep the JSDF from attacking.
• On a related note above, what if there's a disease that only magic can cure, but that spread into pandemic-levels in the modern world?

And that's only four ideas that could've completely changed the entire storyline lol. If the author was less blinded by his patriotism (and weebness), things could've been a LOT more interesting, just saying.

 

[screamdoom]

why the fuck are they flying low?
why they didn't sent recon?
and why the fuck nobody question Zolzal dog in HQ?
hello? where the fuck are the intel at?! is there a mole in JSDF?

 

[Hootanic]

who knows, i just watch a video about it

In order for it to be considered a war crime, it'd have to either be in violation of the Geneva Convention or the parties involved would have to be signatories to the Cluster Munitions Ban. While a 100+ countries are signed on to that, none of the parties involved are, which is why it was dubious to withhold these munition for as long as they have when the Russians started using them on the outset. Any war-crimes in this conflict would have to be defined as such within the Geneva Convention that all belligerents are subject to.

 

[SeekingSolace]

I feel like we're seeing something similar here like in Ukraine. When a war drags on farther than anticipated, the initial shock wears off and the enemy is able to adapt. Still, it doesn't look like the empire is able to stage any large general counteroffensives, not with the kind of technology they have available.

 

[TehSDragon]

That's probably a lot of metal used/wasted to make those nets - I figure the JSDF will probably adapt to that pretty quickly, though, and will most like use more anti-air stuff from the ground to counter the wyverns

Can the choppers fly higher than wyverns? I have no idea on the logistics of fictional fantasy monsters and I don't recall the manga ever mentioning it (though I could be wrong).

In order for it to be considered a war crime, it'd have to either be in violation of the Geneva Convention or the parties involved would have to be signatories to the Cluster Munitions Ban. While a 100+ countries are signed on to that, none of the parties involved are, which is why it was dubious to withhold these munition for as long as they have when the Russians started using them on the outset. Any war-crimes in this conflict would have to be defined as such within the Geneva Convention that all belligerents are subject to.

Now the question is this: should its use be a war crime? That's not what the YT comments are saying (or even implying, personally I think they all sound cult-y as hell), but I'm thinking that's the direction the conversation should be going towards

Are there any credible sources on Russia using cluster ammunition? I'm too lazy to check, and I'm not from the USA, Russia, or Ukraine, so I don't really have enough pieces in this to really care about it beyond the surface level lol

If they did, then sucks as it may, sometimes you do have to fight fire with fire - that being said, I feel like that could be a slippery slope of escalation that no one really wants to see

 

[sambenmaggie]

That's probably a lot of metal used/wasted to make those nets - I figure the JSDF will probably adapt to that pretty quickly, though, and will most like use more anti-air stuff from the ground to counter the wyverns

Can the choppers fly higher than wyverns? I have no idea on the logistics of fictional fantasy monsters and I don't recall the manga ever mentioning it (though I could be wrong).


Now the question is this: should its use be a war crime? That's not what the YT comments are saying (or even implying, personally I think they all sound cult-y as hell), but I'm thinking that's the direction the conversation should be going towards

Are there any credible sources on Russia using cluster ammunition? I'm too lazy to check, and I'm not from the USA, Russia, or Ukraine, so I don't really have enough pieces in this to really care about it beyond the surface level lol

If they did, then sucks as it may, sometimes you do have to fight fire with fire - that being said, I feel like that could be a slippery slope of escalation that no one really wants to see

A simple Google reveals pretty much every major outlet has reported on their usage from Russia with hundreds of recorded instances. It has drastically escalated in usage in the last 3 months however.

Frankly aside from the effectiveness, the main reason Ukraine is escalating its use is that their/US supply of 155mm is low. This is less a case of fighting fire with fire and more a case of "they're using fire and we're all out of rocks so let's drop the moral highground pretense and just use fire".

However in general I think the escalation argument is pretty weak here because Russia will continue to escalate until they win or give up, regardless of if Ukraine matches.

 

[StealthAria]

Yeah. There are a few reasons for this, but one of the main ones is lack of conventional ammo. A single cluster can replace multiple artillery shots, as they don't need to keep adjusting aim.

The ammo sent will also have a low dud rate, so while it certainly isn't great, it isn't going to be like Vietnam. Russia has also been using them, so Ukraine may have decided to push to end the war sooner, than just let the Russian ones (likely higher dud rate) keep spreading. There are also cluster mines, but those aren't considered covered by cluster ammo bans (which none of these countries have signed) since they self detonate after 24 hours.

There are some older cluster munitions that Ukraine wants, so they can break them down and use the bomb-lets with drones as they can penetrate 190mm armor, which is better than the 120mm bombs they've been using.

Not a simple solution, but understand this is Ukraine's choice in the end. Moralizing without having direct skin in the game, isn't going to help anyone.

In a usual fashion, the dud rate threshold used to be 1% for arms trades like this, but the previous guy raised the threshold to 2%. Why? No idea. Doubt he cared about it. So that has allowed the transfer of this ammo to Ukraine.

What they're sending aren't cluster bombs per se, they're similar to cluster bombs but have a few differences. Mainly that they're artillery shells rather than bombs and that they launch their sub-munitions by different means, but the sub-munitions are actually fully independent and can be removed from the shell to be used by other means (eg, dropped from a drone) which is likely how Ukraine will use them because they aren't actually very good against trenches.

 

[1234muse]

I'd say Zipang is better than this. This is pure Grade C Weeb Tom clancy

that's what makes this good. zipang is a semi-imperial japan fanart about what if they didn't lose. I don't particularly enjoy reading about imperial japan getting a get out of jail free(with a side of nukes) card
zipang also needs more suspension of disbelief than gate does, the idea that a modern japanese crew would want anything to do with imperial japan is laughable at best

 

[Claith]

What they're sending aren't cluster bombs per se, they're similar to cluster bombs but have a few differences. Mainly that they're artillery shells rather than bombs and that they launch their sub-munitions by different means, but the sub-munitions are actually fully independent and can be removed from the shell to be used by other means (eg, dropped from a drone) which is likely how Ukraine will use them because they aren't actually very good against trenches.

Sorry, not an expert, so I'm certainly likely to mess up in the details.

In my mind, things that explode are all bombs, and doesn't separate artillery shells from ones dropped from aircraft. I'll be more careful down the road.

 

[someguyjumping]

I wonder if the F4 callsigns are an Ace Combat reference, Garm could be Galm, and there is a Sorcerer team, Wizard team etc.

 

[ClemCa]

I swear if they manage to get Leilei to China fictional or not they deserve death. Every single person involved.

 

[wakamo]

99% of the comments about the actiony helicopter scene

1% what happened to Lelei, yeah she got put in a box like those murder scenes we regularly see in real life

 

[baconla1]

This is the second officers of Rose Knight that lay their hand on Leilei. And unlike the previous one who act because they are loyal and worry about princess, this one betrayed princess simply bcuz she received “check note” a dick?
She know how much Precess hate Diabo, she know Diabo is a despicable man, she know by kidnapping Leilei, not only she is destroying the peace princess worked so hard for, the second time mind you, she also putting the existence of two words at risk, simply bcuz of … again, a dick?
Work can’t describe how mad I am now toward her

 

[BadHaremSchollar]

Man, aside from when they slaughtered and kidnapped people when the Gate first opened, it took 120-ish chapters for them (anyone in the fantasy world) to do anything to the JSDF. I love the series, but it's too unbalanced in favor of JSDF, which unsurprisingly, the author was apparently was part of the JSDF, and/or very nationalistic (nothing wrong with that) IIRC.

Biggest complain is that when they recued the prisioner and had them surrounded.

Japan somehow got 0 casualties while being all ranged weapons.

 

[radstylix]

Biggest complain is that when they recued the prisioner and had them surrounded.

Japan somehow got 0 casualties while being all ranged weapons.

I'm sure there are casualties here and there, but there is a lack of reactions from main characters, or heck, the series doesn't even list out the number of casualties from engagements IIRC.

I know that this is a power fantasy for the author applied to a whole country, or taken in a less insulting way, a "lighthearted, optimistic, and nationalistic" series, and there's nothing wrong with either, but I dunno, the seeming lack of casualties (and corruption! Somehow the politicians are also saints) just makes the JSDF/Japan look a tad invulnerable...

And Itami is also technically invulnerable/immortal now too

 

[DanYHKim]

I’m glad to see The Empire isnt completely being rolled over.

Yeah. The asymmetric warfare being shown here reminds me of some of the books by Harry Turtledove. Particularly He has a series in which aliens invade the Earth in the middle of World War II. Naturally, they are able to roll over human forces, although they find some surprises like tanks which are harder to deal with than they had expected. Also, some of the weapons defenses that they have are tailored for more of a 21st century opponent, and so works better with smart weapons than it does with the simple kinetic weapons used in the early and middle 20th century. That is to say, a gigantic shell on the ballistic arc is not going to be distracted by electronic and thermal countermeasures.

In any case, the humans give good account for the conflict even though the cost is very high. Also, reverse engineering captured equipment results in a quantum leap of technological advances on the human side.

 

[DanYHKim]

I sometimes wonder if it would be possible for a kind of GPS system to be set up over a theater of war on another planet, particularly when getting to the other side is fairly easy. It might not be necessary even to have orbiting satellites. Maybe a fleet of AWACS could do the job.