Gleipnir - Vol. 9 Ch. 53

[lostsamurai]

The comments are freaking gold.

And I also agree on the Claire = Aiko theory. It makes sense, especially if the brief flashbacks of Shuuichi calling Claire a "demon" are an actual clue and not a red herring.

 

[GreySith]

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@1idd0kun
True.. but possibly irrelevant, you point out at Clair's determination but that is only one part of her magnificence and charm, another part is her demonic intelligence and cunning.
As such, being a "normal" and defeating her enemies through guile might be part of her character definition, so becoming a coin user would essentially ruin and destroy her character.
Conversely, it's also possible that Clair is already a coin user but due to her power/wish coming from a clear-minded conscious choice rather than a vague subconscious desire, the erasure of her memories has essentially sealed her power.Actually a possible middle ground based on the Clair=Aiko theory is that Clair/Aiko has a 100 coin power that is not usefull for combat.
The how of it is that Aiko was the first person that Honoka told about the Alien, and, after the Alien agreed to the game idea it was Aiko that spread around the initial rumors/information about the coins, and thus, being the locus of most information regarding the coins, Aiko was also the first to find the spaceship and get her hands on 100 coins.
As for the power itself, it would be "rebirth", A sort of mix of immortality and shape-shifting. Not something short term oriented like instantly regenerating in the midst of combat or shape-shifting into someone you saw. But instead, more like a permanent escape from jail card. For the inevitable cases where she would badly screw up and end up imprisoned or killed or on the opposite in situation like the prelude to her "suicide" where she would find herself socially tied down in a position she no longer cared for.
Her power would allow her to shed her current body like a snakes skin, travel the world as a ghost for a bit and then create for herself a new and original body that would not have to be a perfect copy of her previous one.

 

[1idd0kun]

@GreySith "True.. but possibly irrelevant, you point out at Clair's determination but that is only one part of her magnificence and charm, another part is her demonic intelligence and cunning.
As such, being a "normal" and defeating her enemies through guile might be part of her character definition"

Thing is, it's becoming clear that without the special power of Shuichi, they can't defeat Honoka, and I don't think anyone but Clair will partner with him for the final battle, so if the condition to unlock Suichi's special power is being a coin user, Clair will become one. That's a given.

As for Clair being Aiko, I doubt it. I do think she might have been responsible for Aiko's suicide somehow. We'll have to wait and see.

 

[GreySith]

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@1idd0kun
In regards to Clair=Aiko, I'm also a bit doubtful that it's what the author has mind but I can't get the idea out of my head and have just updated my previous post with a bit more of an idea of how it could work.In regards to Shuichi's "fusion mode", being a coin user does seem like a sensible requirement since the fusion essentially involves both Shuichi and the person inside to undergo a major physical transformation .. Then again .. like you said

She's the most different to Shuichi which is why she's the best partner for him

Back when "fusion mode" was introduced Yoshioka noted that the key element was emotional resonance.
So if the key to everything is Shuichi and Clair getting in tune with each other, the visual coolness factor could be accomplished by having Shuichi MK I "Lame puppy suit" upgrade to Shuichi MK II "Cool wolf knight mecha" having better neural linkage and most importantly internal ventilation thus allowing Clair longer operational time and better focus without requiring her to undergo any physical transformation of her own.
Rather on the on the opposite considering how neat the Yoshioka/Shuichi fusion looked, trying to top it off with an even cooler Clair/Shuichi fusion seems more likely to backfire and end up failing to meet expectations and thus feeling just lame.

 

[1idd0kun]

@GreySith "Rather on the on the opposite considering how neat the Yoshioka/Shuichi fusion looked, trying to top it off with an even cooler Clair/Shuichi fusion seems more likely to backfire and end up failing to meet expectations and thus feeling just lame."

Personally, I think it's pretty obvious there's gonna be an even greater power up fusion between Clair and Shiuchi that's going to completely overshadow the Yoshioka/Shuichi thing. To begin with, Yoshioka herself said the power Shuichi unlocked with her isn't enough to defeat Honoka. So they need something better than that to win.

 

[Seran61]

Don't you dare killing Yoshioka!
Hopefully this will be translated. I've read the spanish is getting translated first, respect. <

I can imagine, that the fusion between Claire and Shuichi is going to happen. Yoshioka is similiar to him and he wanted to protect her as well but the moving stone was and is Claire ( even though it was in this mess ). So it's going to be her.

 

[GreySith]

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Sigh, it's a bit difficult to argue against the Claiko-Shuichi fusion. To be perfectly honest, back when fusion was first introduced my first thought was also "whoa, can't wait for Claiko and Shuichi to fuse up for the final battle". However, reading the rest of the manga up to this point I can't help but think and feel that from the very beginning Claiko already posses a power that surpasses 1 coin, 100 coins and fusion. A power that's called "A demonic level of Intelligence, Guts, Wisdom and Determination".
From the very start Claiko has been overcoming seemingly hopeless and overwhelming situations not by tapping into a hidden reserve of power and going S.S.J., but instead by analyzing and/or anticipating the situation and thus finding a path to victory that neither her enemies nor her allies could see.
The thing that Claiko needs in order to deal with Kaito and Honoka is accurate information that would allow her to see their weaknesses and the allies that would allow her to take advantage of these weaknesses.Claiko's reason for returning the coin to Elena was most likely to turn that coin into a physical reminder for Elena that her plan to keep Shuichi and Claiko out of this mess has failed and that her best choice is to fall in line with Claiko's plans.As for Shuichi... Little by little Claiko has been mentally and emotionally toughening him up, so quite opposite to fusion, the culmination of their partnership might actually be Shuichi learning to fight by his own strength...
Mixing this with Claiko's occasional insistence that her only place is inside Shuichi and looking at it from a somewhat odd angle, gives rise to another wonderfully twisted possibility...
The erasure of her and Shuichi's memories is all part of Claiko's schemes..
Claiko's initial attempt at toughening Shuichi's mind solely from the outside ended up slowly breaking his mind instead. As such the immediate purpose of erasing Shuichi's memories and letting him live in peaceful ignorance for a while was to give his mind emergency treatment and let it heal for a while.
Beyond that Claiko concluded that the best way to properly adjust Shuichi’s mind would be to go inside Shuichi and via his empathy ability have him use her own mind as a reference. However, even then, she estimated that hitting Shuichi with her normal mindset from the get go would simply cause him to reject it or break again.
And so, to compensate, with Elena’s help, Claiko set up the murdered parents scenario, had part of her own memories blocked and then let herself stew in that situation for a while to deteriorate herself to the point where Shuichi would be able to start empathizing with her.
Meanwhile, Elaine had several changes of heart, alternating between following Claiko’s plans and trying to adjust them by herself so that Shuichi wouldn’t need to get involved.
When the time came for Claiko and Shuichi to make contact, while following Claiko’s general instructions for the arson incident, in a small dark corner of her heart, Elena probably hoped that Shuichi actually wouldn’t save Claiko and thus become free. Because of that uncertainty in regards to her own desires, after doing her part Elena left without checking the outcome of the fire.Consequentially, the reason for Elena’s strange and uncharacteristic behavior when she met Shuichi near the train station was that she thought that his presence there was a divine providence that meant Claiko’s plans have somehow failed*, and, that as long as she kept him away from everything else that was going on, perhaps, somehow, they could restart their relationship. Upon hearing another girls voice from within Shuichi, her ephemeral hope underwent a complete reversal turning into a baleful mixture of jealousy, hatred and despair, thinking that rather than providence she had received divine punishment for betraying both her lover and her master/friend.
But upon seeing Claiko she plateaued at simple resignation, not quite giving up on the hope for Shuichu to become free but realizing that there was probably neither an escape from nor a better alternative to Claiko’s machinations. * The anticipated course of action having been that before confronting Elena, Claiko and Shuichi would first investigate the coin in Claiko’s posses ion, then toughen up Shuichi and gather allies.
And that if they confronted Elena before Claiko regained her memories, Claiko would initially face Elena alone, keeping Shuichi and any other allies they gathered as hidden tramp cards .. essentially, more or less what happened after on.

 

[swordmaster2551]

looking forward to next chapter

 

[Yggdraseed]

Calling it now, this is a love circle y'all heard it first here

@GreySith here's how I see it tho

Naoto --> Aiko --> Shuichi --> Elena --> Kaito --> Honoka --> Naoto

Honoka --> Naoto (confirmed)

Naoto --> Aiko (they were dating so this is confirmed)

Shuichi --> Elena (Chihiro confirmed this)

Now when it comes to (Aiko --> Shuichi) if the theory about Aiko being actually Claire is correct then some of Elena's actions makes sense now, also why Shuichi was choking Claire

Now the last one (Elena --> Kaito) with the circle already forming plus all the vagueness and contradictions "want to be with someone" but she erases Shuichi's memories and left him and the countless foreshadow about her relationship with Shuichi even tho all of it can be just platonic, pretty much confirms Shuichi is red herring and that Elena is into Kaito

 

[GreySith]

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@Yggdraseed, because I accidentally misspelled your username in my reply to your original love circle post you seem to have missed it so I'll use that as an excuse to post a slightly updated/revised version of the reply here ( also, once more thanks and sorry for opposing your theory while you're supporting mine ):
Lets start with confirmed relationships, there many hints in many places in the story, but, at least for the purpose of my interpretation of it, I feel that c33p9 is the biggest and clearest guidepost, Counting from top right to bottom left, We have:
Shuichi <--> Elena in panel 2.
Honoka --> Naoto in panel 4.
Kaito --> Honka in panels 6,5,4.
This might seem trivial but while you look at that single page you might be able to see that it foreshadows and hides within itself much more.
- 2, 4, 6, I do not need to point out the common factor, these panels are the presentation of the story’s pairings and love.
- Panel 5 while seeming to be merely a connector between panels 4 and 6 is quite on the opposite the point that is being emphasized by them, that is, Kaito’s self-centered, self-gratifing and self-deluding nature. Between catching on a challenge/encouragement that wasn’t aimed at him and throwing off a declaration of coolness into thin air rather than the person meant to be impressed, it is the exemplification of him sinking into his own private world in order to come up with an that in truth is meant to satisfies no one but himself. ..I wonder if I’m dissing this guy so much because I see him as the sum of so many of the flaws that I hate about myself.. anyway..
- Panel 3 is a foreshadowing of /reference to the Naoto replacing Shuichi thing, but at the same time it is a demonstration of Naoto a man’s man.
- and then there’s 1, a number that signifies both solitude and being at the top and front, her comment to Kaito might seem like the indication of a pairing but the actual meaning is different, nearly opposite, being countered and mirrored by panel 5 it emphasizes the fact that Claiko is the only one being shown only and solely by herself. But there is a bit more to it than that, while all others are shown only in the light, Claiko is the only one being shown half in shadow, and if you’ll cover away the portion of her face shown in light you’ll notice a more sinister expression, one that will give her seemingly cheerful and lighthearted comment a more threatening air (“Why so serious?” anyone?).
And another thing that is most noted by it’s absence is the lack of any indication of a pairing between Claiko and Naoto.
Not only that but you will note that unlike Shuichi, Elena, Honoka and even Kaito, Naoto doesn’t show the slightest bit of blushing.
And as for Claiko, at first glance she might seem to be a part of the blushful lovey-dovey mood, but once you look at the other flashbacks shown in pages 6 to 8 you’ll notice that the blush would seem to be a fixed feature of her face, and, but, in particular, on page 9, with the aforementioned shadow playing on her face the blush shows the tiniest, slightest bit of falseness.
And yet, wasn’t Claiko and Naoto being a couple stated as an absolute and irrevocable truth at the beginning of the chapter? So what does this mean, was this an oversight, a mistake, did the author simply not feel the need to restate something so obvious and clear? No, what this means is that while Claiko and Naoto were a couple from early on, their relationship was fairly shallow and not based on any real love. Finding Claiko physically attractive he tried to hit on her and she accepted. Why? Somewhat because she was open to new experiences and just wanted to try the relationship thing out. And somewhat because with her being rather popular it would make other boys pester her a bit less. But mostly because she wanted to keep Naoto on a leash and away from other girls until her best friend Honoka found the guts to try and win his heart. So.. what difference does it make? Chapter 34 page 11.
Claiko was an alpha female, Naoto found her physically attractive, but, being a man’s man sort of guy, from an emotional stand point she was probably very strongly tromping on his ego, furthermore, with her being careful not allow him to find an find an excuse to end their relationship, he might have felt outright imprisoned.
As a consequence when Claiko suddenly became a much more needy, intimate and feminine Honoka-as-Aiko not only could he not abandon her, but much more, his pent up frustration quickly reversed and sublimed into emotionally mature true love.
A quick sum-up for now:
Shuichi <-- true love --> Elena
Naoto <-- true love --> Honoka-as-Aiko
Kaito – selfish obsesive stalker love --> Honoka
Claiko <-- best friends closer than family --> Honoka

 

[Yggdraseed]

@GreySith it's all good man, idc who's right or wrong i just love talking/theorising about the series, so I'd like it if my argument is challenged coz some people would just disagree without explaining themselves, anyway as long as we challenge each others argument objectively we can get to the bottom of it, in a way we help each other analysing the series in depth so don't worry about opposing my argument

Funny thing is, my love circle theory is motivated and reliant on your claiko theory being right but at the same time it's interesting how we see the relationship differently

>Panel analysis

I think you are overanalyzing it with the panels

>Shuichi <-- true love --> Elena

Biggest evidence we have so far are we see them smiling and laughing together, but people can be close friends whilst being opposite genders, we can't confirm whether it's platonic or romantic

And then there's Claire teasing Elena, if they have sex, Elena answered they don't have a relationship like that, again we cannot confirm whether they're relationship is platonic or romantic

And we did saw Elena said "I love you" to Shuichi but Daisuki (I like you) is used more romantically while Aishiteru (I love you) is used more platonically, regardless whichever she used, only Elena can confirm the meaning behind it in the future

Too early to say it's true love, we can't neither disprove if they're relationship is romantic nor platonic atm

Taking all of those into context along with the countless foreshadow and vagueness of their relationship like "want to be one with" but she does contradictory things instead, I'd say it's pretty much safe to assume Shuichi is red herring as Elena's love interest and that Elena is actually into Kaito


>Naoto <-- true love --> Honoka-as-Aiko

I never got that impression before but now I see why you think that but there's an obvious contradiction, if Aiko likes Kaito there's no rival, no hindrance, no stopping Aiko from making a move to Kaito, he's individualistic, he's the loner but also the leader ish so it would've make sense if Aiko had make a move to him but she didn't, even if you tell me she knew about Honoka's feelings towards Naoto, it's contradictory that she goes out (dated) with Naoto, also taking Naoto when she could've made the two end up together then Kaito can give up and she will make a move on Kaito, see it doesn't add up

>Kaito – selfish obsesive stalker love --> Honoka

We agree on this one

Claiko <-- best friends closer than family --> Honoka

This one too, but I don't think it's necessary to mention coz there's probably no LGBT thing going on here unless we wrong

Naoto --> Aiko --> Shuichi --> Elena --> Kaito --> Honoka --> Naoto

PS Elena's actions, makes sense for her to help Claiko considering this love circle I'm talking about, it created a domino effect on the circle and if Claiko theory is right then her motive makes sense she got Shuichi now

 

[GreySith]

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>Panel analysis
I think you are over-analyzing it with the panels

“The secret to finding conspiracies is looking hard enough”
The Illuminatus, book 5, chapter 18, verse 23.
OK, so first off to clarify two slight misunderstandings:
1. Claiko <--> Honoka: We seem to have a fundamental difference in our basic value systems here.
Your value system seems to be – sexual romantic love >> stable, well grounded, life long friendship.
My value system is the opposite. It’s a fairly subjective difference so I don’t see any point in arguing about it though.
2. Claiko , Kaito: I guess I wrote that part in an overly confusing manner, the sum of what it meant to say was only that Claiko did not have any real interest in Naoto.
Kaito as far as she was concerned was actually an eyesore because of his unhealthy interest in Honoka, obviously she didn’t let it show.
Moving on, after thinking a bit about Elena --> Kaito, I think you hit nearly spot on, except, what Elena felt/feels for Kaito isn’t love but sympathy and pity for a kindred spirit.
Previously I labeled Elena <--> Shuichi as puppy true love, but trying to think of the Elena-Kaito connection reveals a somewhat different picture:
Elena – crazy, obsessive, stalker, yandre love --> Shuichi
Shuichi – universal Mahatma Gandhi love --> Elena
The Shuichi part I think is evident enough to not require explanation. As for Elena, essentially, what we see is something like a Shuichi cured Elena. Because Shuchi fully accepted her crazy from the very start she was able to reflect upon herself, understand her flaws and start consciously suppressing and overcoming them. The reason for her erratic and contradictory behaviour is thus that with Shuichi out of reach she’s slowly breaking down and reverting to her “true” nature. The nature of the Elena-Kaito connection then is that Elena sees in Kaito what she would have been if Shuichi didn’t “save” her, and thus feels or at least initially felt a sort of moral obligation to “save” Kaito.
Leaving it at that for the moment lets switch to the Claiko, Honoka, Naoto thing:
Originally I labeled Honoka --> Naoto as obsessive stalker love, but with Elena now having that flag as well I inevitably tried to rethink this as well and realized a scenario that justified Claiko<--nothing-->Naoto much better as well: Honoka – normal love --> Naoto, but with a caveat, the relationship between her parents was so bad that it left Honoka with a deep scar and fear of romantic relationships. As such Claiko’s purpose in hitting it off with Naoto was to create a situation were Honoka could get fairly close to Naoto as his masculine and hyperactive girlfriends best (female) friend, but still leave Honoka with as wide a psychological safety buffer as she needed. Being in love with Honoka himself and tending to repaint his view of the world and the people around him to his own liking, this hidden relationship was something that Kaito didn’t notice.
Lastly for this post, the bare-bones of another speculative assertion:
1. Honoka meets Alien.
2. Honoka tells about Alien to Claiko.
3. With the Alien's consent Honoka and Claiko start the coin game.
4. Claiko recruits Elena as a sort of enforcer, arranging for Elena to gain her memory tampering powers along the way.
5. Claiko fakes her suicide.
6. Honoka becomes Honoka-as-Aiko.
7. Claiko and Elena arrange for Claiko to officially become Elena’s sister.
8. Needing to stay away from Honoka for a while, Claiko asks Elena to keep an eye on her.
9. Forseeing Kaito as a potential danger for Honoka-as-Aiko, Claiko either:
a. Instructs Elena to erase his memories of Honoka.
or
b. lets slip that she’s going to deal with him herself.
10. The mistake and sin that makes Elena see the present day situation as her own responsibility is that she took pity on Kaito and either:
a. Ignored Claiko’s instructions and lied to her about it.
or
b. Tampered/Erased some of Claiko’s memories to prevent her from going after Kaito herself.
11. Most of Claiko's memories of her sister are actually memories of Honoka masked by Elena's memory manipulation.

 

[AmmarAli]

Anyone knows when is chapter 54 comming !!?

 

[ykyrlv]

I have so many questions.
- Why is Elena in her first appearance so completely different to what she's been in every encounter since? It feels like the mangaka had one idea for her and then switched it in the next chapter, but then for some reason the anime copied it too?
- Why is Kaito just AFKing at the crash site? He says that he's stopping anyone else getting the coins, but why not just pick them up and either turn them in for more bonus drinks, or move them somewhere where everyone isn't coming to look for them?
- Why did Yoshioka and peeper creep know or want to go to the secret ambush site and derail the plot at the end of ch50? Is it because the anime was coming and the mangaka suddenly needed to stretch things out? Everything had been progressing relatively evenly, then the last 3-4 chapters have just been a weird rehash of things we already knew.

Also this probably doesn't mean anything, but at 49p23 there's a frame of Claire right next to a frame of Honoka, and I found it interesting how their hair is basically identical in shapes.

 

[GreySith]

Elena has Yandre fixation on Shuichi, when she thinks Shuichi is with another girl she goes crazy, but when she sees he's with Clair she calms down and start's being cool-headed because she doesn't think Clair will take him from her.

Kaito already has all the power that he needs. the crash site might contain thousands or even millions of coins so it's too much to move them all. Also it's a flytrap that attracts new recruits for his undead army.

After seeing Shuichi's memories in regard to Elena Yoshioka probably became somewhat sympathetic with Elena's goals, Yoshioka knows about the ambush because Koyanagi invited her.
Peeper creep is peeper creep and therefore magically knows where to best peep and creep on his object of obsession.
The purpose of the manga is to earn the mangaka money, and the last few chapters weren't entirely devoid of development.


hmm.. Aiko = Claire = Honoka ?
It sounds crazy but it could create a nice symmetry.

 

[Illakilla]

Time for the next chapter...😁

 

[ribhu]

So it looks like there are three timeline with respect to the whole past mystery. First being the childhood timeline, second being the timeline when Honoka met the alien and then the last one being the reunion timeline.

Regarding first one, we're shown that within the children boarding school there are Suichi and his friends but the mystery and the real question here is where is Claire at this time? Since the boarding school is for the children whose both parent are working so why this absence of Claire at this point if Elena is already there? (Unless there was no Claire at this point in time)

Now with second timeline we're shown that this is when Honoka met the alien and suggested the coin game. Also we're shown Honoka telling the alien that her friends will help them. Note that at this point Aiko isn't dead as Honoka is pretty much shown happy. So why didn't she bring her friends to the alien at this point in time? Or maybe she did bring one of them and that one being her best friend Aiko. But before she could tell her other friends Aiko commits suicide (or did she?). Reason? We don't know. Honoka thinking Aiko committed suicide ask the alien for her wish to become Aiko and we move on from this timeline. So the real mystery here is the whole premise of Aiko's suicide and Claire's part in her suicide or even whether there even was a suicide.

The last timeline being the reunion where all the friends meet except for real Aiko. This is when the rest of the friends are introduced to alien for the first time. Plot moves on and Kaito kills Honoka(disguise as Aiko). This is the first time we're shown Claire with her sister. So where was she up till now? We also see that Kaito having realised that he fucked up goes mental. This is when Naoto calls Suichi and Elena and they decide to do something about it. This may be the point where Suichi gets his powers. Now what happens that Suichi has to choke Claire? What led to that? Did they realised Claire's part in this whole scenario? This is also when Elena decides to erase Suichi and Claire's memory and Naoto becomes Suichi' replacement. Manga starts here.

So, since Claire isn't in the childhood timeline, Aiko is Claire theory might be correct? Not to mention how similar their personality and looks are. Maybe this is the case of rich girl wanting to escape her unfulfilling life. Whatever her motives be, the question is why become Elena's sister? What's Elena's part here? Did she complied with Aiko's wish to become her sister? Maybe this is when Elena's parents adopted Claire (who is none other than Aiko). But then what about Honoka? Why did she believe that Aiko committed suicide? Kaito asks Honoka "is this where you buried her?" Then was Honoka's memory of her burying Aiko post her suicide one of Elena's memory manipulation too? Then the question arises of the murder of the parents and Claire aka Aiko's part in it. Something isn't right here and there is a piece of puzzle missing here to solidify this theory of Aiko being Claire. Well we'll eventually know when the author decides to unveil the mystery behind it all.

 

[GreySith]

That which I created is mine to destroy:

childhood timeline : Clair is younger than Elena therefor she is simply too small to go to the boarding school.

second timeline : despite how kind everybody else presents her to be, Honoka is still human and possessed of the sins of greed and envy. With nearly her entire existence being Aiko's shadow, deep down she wanted something of her own. With Aiko and everybody else always being busy with something else she just kept delaying with telling them about the alien.

last timeline : Clair was busy with her own life. If you have siblings, do they know all of your friends? and vice-versa, do all of your close friends know your family? If Clair was the one that killed her parents and Shuichi learned about it, it might be reason enough for him to become seriously upset.

The really annoying thing is that unless the anime goes for a second season, it will probably be at least a few years before the mystery behind it all is unveiled

 

[relic626]

ahaha things with from 0 to gay pretty fast

 

[tppcrpg]

GAAAAAAAAAAAAY