Goals of Forum and Comment Moderation on MD
- Thread starter Zephyrus
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@ninjadork
I believe this would be an unwise course of action since being popular does not equate to also possessing the correct disposition for the position of moderator. A moderator is like a police officer. In that regard, they will be disliked by those who like to stretch or break the rules (i.e. not popular with that group) and they will generally be viewed with either indifference, fear, or respect (well-liked by a small cop-lover group) by almost everyone else.
In fact, I think the most popular users will usually NOT be suitable as moderators.
The best course of action is to simply let the site's leaders and overseers decide based upon their own observation and judgment, since they're the ones who have in mind what kind of community they want to foster and encourage (in other words, NOT the masses).
My own view is that a good mod is simply someone who comes across as a decent person, with a good character and temperament, and a willingness to do volunteer work as a website police officer. People with those natures might not be the most popular, so hence, I have to reiterate my disagreement with your suggested approach to finding moderators.
I believe this would be an unwise course of action since being popular does not equate to also possessing the correct disposition for the position of moderator. A moderator is like a police officer. In that regard, they will be disliked by those who like to stretch or break the rules (i.e. not popular with that group) and they will generally be viewed with either indifference, fear, or respect (well-liked by a small cop-lover group) by almost everyone else.
In fact, I think the most popular users will usually NOT be suitable as moderators.
The best course of action is to simply let the site's leaders and overseers decide based upon their own observation and judgment, since they're the ones who have in mind what kind of community they want to foster and encourage (in other words, NOT the masses).
My own view is that a good mod is simply someone who comes across as a decent person, with a good character and temperament, and a willingness to do volunteer work as a website police officer. People with those natures might not be the most popular, so hence, I have to reiterate my disagreement with your suggested approach to finding moderators.
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@Zephyrus
Given that you displayed heavy bias in the initial moderator interaction, and then used your moderation powers to temporarily silence him for daring to call you out, I'm also at a loss for why he doesn't like your style of moderation.
If you are representative of the other moderators, then I am declaring zero confidence that the comment sections aren't going to be policed like the USSR under Stalin, and all that policing will be extremely biased.
Given that you displayed heavy bias in the initial moderator interaction, and then used your moderation powers to temporarily silence him for daring to call you out, I'm also at a loss for why he doesn't like your style of moderation.
If you are representative of the other moderators, then I am declaring zero confidence that the comment sections aren't going to be policed like the USSR under Stalin, and all that policing will be extremely biased.
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@Kierlak
Mike has held a grudge over one mistake that I made with him some time ago and apologized for. He has continued to pop up in threads where I take moderator action and insinuate that I'm unable to mod properly for various reasons.
And is the fact that I don't like the usage of the word gay some sort of great revelation or strike against me? As I interpreted 5.1 at the time, it was an offensive post. I can't think of any other reason why someone would make a one word post referencing homosexuals on a thread unless they were expressing dissatisfaction. Why should the word gay, notably slang for a homosexual, be used in a negative manner? In my opinion, it's childish, ignorant offensiveness.
However, it lead to discussion amongst staff members and clarifications on what is offensive in what context and what is not. Clearly, I don't agree with the ultimate decision, but an important part of being a team member is compromising at times for the sake of harmony and the overall good of the team. I am absolutely not ashamed of my personal views. It would be correct to label me as being biased had there previously been in place rules concerning usage of "gay" and I warned the user anyway, ignoring the rules for my own personal satisfaction. As it is, it's just another attempt to make me look as if I abuse my power when I've done nothing but prove that I do the opposite.
Mike rather deserved his temporary comment ban because
1) He was picking a fight over a moderator action that didn't concern him
2) He blatantly insulted me several times when I gave him an answer he didn't like
3) He ignored warnings to cease arguing with a moderator about an action taken (also against the rules)
If you have no faith in the moderation team, there's no one holding a gun against your forehead to post. You can continue to read manga without posting a single comment or participating in a thread.
Mike has held a grudge over one mistake that I made with him some time ago and apologized for. He has continued to pop up in threads where I take moderator action and insinuate that I'm unable to mod properly for various reasons.
And is the fact that I don't like the usage of the word gay some sort of great revelation or strike against me? As I interpreted 5.1 at the time, it was an offensive post. I can't think of any other reason why someone would make a one word post referencing homosexuals on a thread unless they were expressing dissatisfaction. Why should the word gay, notably slang for a homosexual, be used in a negative manner? In my opinion, it's childish, ignorant offensiveness.
However, it lead to discussion amongst staff members and clarifications on what is offensive in what context and what is not. Clearly, I don't agree with the ultimate decision, but an important part of being a team member is compromising at times for the sake of harmony and the overall good of the team. I am absolutely not ashamed of my personal views. It would be correct to label me as being biased had there previously been in place rules concerning usage of "gay" and I warned the user anyway, ignoring the rules for my own personal satisfaction. As it is, it's just another attempt to make me look as if I abuse my power when I've done nothing but prove that I do the opposite.
Mike rather deserved his temporary comment ban because
1) He was picking a fight over a moderator action that didn't concern him
2) He blatantly insulted me several times when I gave him an answer he didn't like
3) He ignored warnings to cease arguing with a moderator about an action taken (also against the rules)
If you have no faith in the moderation team, there's no one holding a gun against your forehead to post. You can continue to read manga without posting a single comment or participating in a thread.
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@Zephyrus
I'll post since this amerits it (may @dankdevice forgive me).
I hold no opinion with most of your post, since those are made from your position as mod about your actions as mod. But
I'll post since this amerits it (may @dankdevice forgive me).
I hold no opinion with most of your post, since those are made from your position as mod about your actions as mod. But
To me, it sounds like a threat against @Kierlak, so chill out, m8.
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@kenx
Wasn't my intention to come across as such. It just doesn't make sense why you'd declare that you have zero faith in a moderation team...and then continue to post where said moderation team works. :v
No one's forcing anyone to be here. It's perfectly fine to disagree with our rules and moderator actions. Sometimes we even change our minds and rules if we find them to be wrong!
Declaring that you have no faith in an institution is, to me, just an attempt to establish yourself as firmly anti-establishment for giggles, the attention, or whatever.
Wasn't my intention to come across as such. It just doesn't make sense why you'd declare that you have zero faith in a moderation team...and then continue to post where said moderation team works. :v
No one's forcing anyone to be here. It's perfectly fine to disagree with our rules and moderator actions. Sometimes we even change our minds and rules if we find them to be wrong!
Declaring that you have no faith in an institution is, to me, just an attempt to establish yourself as firmly anti-establishment for giggles, the attention, or whatever.
@Sola
This kind of elitist sentiment is one of the primary factors that turned 4chan (and its successor 8chan) into the bawling cesspits they usually are. There is nothing about being a moderator that makes one in any way superior to a random user; commitment of time and effort to manipulating people's actions is not and never has been a sign of any good character trait by itself. There is absolutely no reason but blind ego to think that the random people who use this site every single day and are active constituents of this community are somehow less intelligent or less virtuous than moderators.
Anybody who spent any time at all on 4chan (including me) is well aware that isolation from "the masses" led to 4chan mods acting like a collection of deranged circlejerkers ranging from the lazy to the actively malicious, who openly mocked users for their powerlessness in the face of mod banning. Anybody who was a regular user is well aware the most of the great flamestorms in 4chan history were directly caused by mods trying to frivolously ban/counter/manipulate things they found irritating. Entire spin-off websites have been spawned by the truckload for no reason except that moderator tyranny became intolerable.
I'm not locked in stone about what exactly those tools will be, but if admin/moderator policy on this site ever goes beyond this:
There must be tools in place to prevent abuse.
This kind of elitist sentiment is one of the primary factors that turned 4chan (and its successor 8chan) into the bawling cesspits they usually are. There is nothing about being a moderator that makes one in any way superior to a random user; commitment of time and effort to manipulating people's actions is not and never has been a sign of any good character trait by itself. There is absolutely no reason but blind ego to think that the random people who use this site every single day and are active constituents of this community are somehow less intelligent or less virtuous than moderators.
Anybody who spent any time at all on 4chan (including me) is well aware that isolation from "the masses" led to 4chan mods acting like a collection of deranged circlejerkers ranging from the lazy to the actively malicious, who openly mocked users for their powerlessness in the face of mod banning. Anybody who was a regular user is well aware the most of the great flamestorms in 4chan history were directly caused by mods trying to frivolously ban/counter/manipulate things they found irritating. Entire spin-off websites have been spawned by the truckload for no reason except that moderator tyranny became intolerable.
I'm not locked in stone about what exactly those tools will be, but if admin/moderator policy on this site ever goes beyond this:
There must be tools in place to prevent abuse.
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Abolish Ad hominem as an argument! Totally agree with @Zephyrus, you can have debates, you can not agree with other's opinions, that's perfectly normal, as long as you stick to refuting the point no amount of cuss words will matter. Ideally, all conversations should stay above at least Contradiction on Paul Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement.
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@ichigoteguz
WHERE DA SMUG ANIME GIRLS AT
No, really, what if, like in some posts on 4chan, you go above the required argument threshold but mock the other person through an image?
WHERE DA SMUG ANIME GIRLS AT
No, really, what if, like in some posts on 4chan, you go above the required argument threshold but mock the other person through an image?
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wow...
speechless.. when i saw this thread..
speechless.. when i saw this thread..
Dex-chan lover
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Just wondering. I barely post, but since I saw so many posts appearing in this thread I checked it... then read the "gay thread" and oh boy.
That "gay" comment was from 7 months ago. Suddenly a wild mod appears. Mod is a rattlecapy daft fool and can't differentiate between a common statement and a targeted insult. A nigmenog user appears immediately trying to prove mod double standards and picking a fight... rest is history.
In my opinion the mod in that case was a rascal - not only because of taking issue with the statement, but because said mod even decided to bother with 7 months old comment. I do agree that the use could have just chilled after the mod threat though.
In the end, I just feel happy to be able to practice some old timey insults, so have a great night, gents and ladies and don't get your panties in a bunch.
That "gay" comment was from 7 months ago. Suddenly a wild mod appears. Mod is a rattlecapy daft fool and can't differentiate between a common statement and a targeted insult. A nigmenog user appears immediately trying to prove mod double standards and picking a fight... rest is history.
In my opinion the mod in that case was a rascal - not only because of taking issue with the statement, but because said mod even decided to bother with 7 months old comment. I do agree that the use could have just chilled after the mod threat though.
In the end, I just feel happy to be able to practice some old timey insults, so have a great night, gents and ladies and don't get your panties in a bunch.
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stop incels! they plague comunities! and it being a meme sheds light how they realize they are incels. thanks memers!
is pretty already obvious incels only like doing incel things because that's how they hedonistic treadmill made dem adapt and became they social confrontation and mental exercise because they sit 10hours a day on their PC; rape is as funny as suicide, manners and etiquette are for snowflakes, if they don't communicate irl nor will ever because they will pee demselves, then proper communicative skills shouldn't matter online too; also, females should learn how to take sexualizing jokes because the reason they get targeted is because they're receptive to such jokes in 1st place, amarayt females?. They are entitled to do gods work!
i hate incels! too bad that's the only thing that's stoping dem from killing demselves. so whenever an incel harass you, think...
you saved his life for another day. let him with his idiot joke or cursing about your tyop! if you mispell words you need to go back to school before understanding dem.
yes.
>:T
is pretty already obvious incels only like doing incel things because that's how they hedonistic treadmill made dem adapt and became they social confrontation and mental exercise because they sit 10hours a day on their PC; rape is as funny as suicide, manners and etiquette are for snowflakes, if they don't communicate irl nor will ever because they will pee demselves, then proper communicative skills shouldn't matter online too; also, females should learn how to take sexualizing jokes because the reason they get targeted is because they're receptive to such jokes in 1st place, amarayt females?. They are entitled to do gods work!
i hate incels! too bad that's the only thing that's stoping dem from killing demselves. so whenever an incel harass you, think...
you saved his life for another day. let him with his idiot joke or cursing about your tyop! if you mispell words you need to go back to school before understanding dem.
yes.
>:T
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@Zephyrus
Exactly as @Kierlak said. As far as I can tell, in that comment chain he was right, you were wrong, he called you out on it and didn't find your response adequate and then you banned him because he pressed for an answer, which you still haven't given. To make matters worse, your fellow staff, by your own admission after the fact, agreed you were wrong in admonishing the guy that originally led to @mikegnesium's comment. That right there vindicates him and proves he was correct in calling out your bias.
I didn't see him break any rule except for the arbitrary "don't reply" you laid out for him. And before you go there, having a "don't argue with a moderator" rule is ridiculous. The authoritarian problem with which is perfectly highlighted by your actions in that thread. Using his "lack of politeness", an extremely contestable claim, especially given your actions, as an excuse to temp ban him is a fantastic example of you abusing moderator privileges. Him implying you lied or abused your power when there's a clear example / argument of you doing so immediately after that accusation just further contributes to the ridiculousness of that rule which is basically to function as a shield when you cannot provide an adequate reason for your actions or want to shut down a complaint regardless of whether or not it's justified.
This kind of response is exactly what I meant when I mentioned "reddit mod-dictators". He didn't 'pick a fight', you reached, he noticed and called it out, you temp banned him. Your response to @Kierlak, as mentioned by @kenx just further cements that view. There is no need to attempt to make it look like you abuse your power, you did that on your own. No one is great at admitting when they're wrong, myself included, but genuinely insinuating that saying
Exactly as @Kierlak said. As far as I can tell, in that comment chain he was right, you were wrong, he called you out on it and didn't find your response adequate and then you banned him because he pressed for an answer, which you still haven't given. To make matters worse, your fellow staff, by your own admission after the fact, agreed you were wrong in admonishing the guy that originally led to @mikegnesium's comment. That right there vindicates him and proves he was correct in calling out your bias.
I didn't see him break any rule except for the arbitrary "don't reply" you laid out for him. And before you go there, having a "don't argue with a moderator" rule is ridiculous. The authoritarian problem with which is perfectly highlighted by your actions in that thread. Using his "lack of politeness", an extremely contestable claim, especially given your actions, as an excuse to temp ban him is a fantastic example of you abusing moderator privileges. Him implying you lied or abused your power when there's a clear example / argument of you doing so immediately after that accusation just further contributes to the ridiculousness of that rule which is basically to function as a shield when you cannot provide an adequate reason for your actions or want to shut down a complaint regardless of whether or not it's justified.
This kind of response is exactly what I meant when I mentioned "reddit mod-dictators". He didn't 'pick a fight', you reached, he noticed and called it out, you temp banned him. Your response to @Kierlak, as mentioned by @kenx just further cements that view. There is no need to attempt to make it look like you abuse your power, you did that on your own. No one is great at admitting when they're wrong, myself included, but genuinely insinuating that saying
is not at all threatening and not intended to be such is just as ridiculous as suggesting we shouldn't comment for fear of the moderation team. People disagreeing with you are commenting for that very reason. And certainly no one is forcing us to be here, we want to be here and we want to make sure the environment continues to exist in a manner which makes us want to be here. Being afraid of moderators or talking is a fantastic reason to the contrary. Finally, declaring that you have no faith in an establishment is not inherently attention seeking, it's an attempt to say "get your shit together". Especially when referring to you. Honestly dude, you're just dropping fallacy after fallacy.
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Is there anywhere i can look to get like... instructions for how all the options on this site work? I appreciate all the tools MangaDex has available for us readers but I barely know what any of it does. I figured out how to mark series as reading, on hold, dropped, etc then was too afraid of messing things up to really look at much else. I feel like I just started Warframe again except theres no youtuber to explain how this ship/site works to me.
I apologize if this is too off topic for this thread, but my not knowing how to find the right resources is kind of the issue.
I apologize if this is too off topic for this thread, but my not knowing how to find the right resources is kind of the issue.
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