Goals of Forum and Comment Moderation on MD

[ununseti]

@ClairvoyantNara You can find a lot of helpful tutorial guides in this forum section: https://mangadex.org/forum/19

This site also has a site help manga! Definitely worth a read: https://mangadex.org/title/30461/Bocchi-sensei--Teach-me-MangaDex-

 

[ClairvoyantNara]

thank you very much!

 

[Varler]

I like all this, but just a minor thing: Would it be possible to move the report button off to the side some more? Or so it's more out of the way? It's pretty obtrusive when you're trying to scroll through comments, in my opinion. Has anyone else had this bugging them?

 

[krewed]

I like all this, but just a minor thing: Would it be possible to move the report button off to the side some more? Or so it's more out of the way? It's pretty obtrusive when you're trying to scroll through comments, in my opinion. Has anyone else had this bugging them?

second to this, just move this button to the right, under the timestamp

 

[Bainhardt]

@Zephyrus thanks for your response. I think the goal of improving the experience for everyone here is admirable.

That being said, I can't imagine how there are so many people popping up in this thread who take issue with even this most basic of guidelines.
The way I see it, f you don't treat other people like shit, you will have no problems. How hard is that to understand? Don't lose your temper, and chill the fuck out.

 

[Kierlak]

@Bainhardt

Because in this very thread the concept of 'hate speech' was already brought up, and 'hate speech' is a nebulous, wispy bit of nonsense that is almost always used to malign and silence anyone that dares to disagree with certain groups. They love it because it has no objective criteria to be met to have it applied to anything, so they can apply it to whatever they want.

Combined with an example of Zephyrus ALREADY having abused his mod powers, you'd have to be willfully blind to not see why people are having issues with all of this.

 

[Hexxy]

Some people really just want to be bigoted and use hate speech without repercussions, this thread has shown. Hopefully that'll die down with this enforcement though.

I do wish manga communities on the internet in general weren't so infested with people who use racist and homophobic/transphobic slurs and other hate speech to the point places like this are considered a joke by a lot of polite society, since I know communities like this can be better and can maybe set better examples for the future. Manga are like any other art form and deserve community discussions that don't devolve into bigotry against certain minorities.

 

[Yautja]

@Hexxy

Some people really just want to be bigoted and use hate speech without repercussions, this thread has shown.

Mind pointing that out? If you think calling something "gay" is hate speech, you're exactly the kind of authoritarian control monster people are taking issue with.

 

[ninjadork]

@Bainhardt

That being said, I can't imagine how there are so many people popping up in this thread who take issue with even this most basic of guidelines.

If you're being truthful here, go back and read some of my posts on the previous page. Then read some of the wall of text posts.

Your lack of experience with the abuses of the "powerful" is insufficient for you to be acting like our concerns are beneath your notice.

 

[Hexxy]

@Yautja That isn't hate speech. Hate speech is saying racial slurs like the N word, or telling trans people they're mentally ill, or calling Muslims certain slurs just for their religion. That's hate speech. Saying something is gay in a negative manner is also something I don't agree with but I don't consider that hate speech, but I do consider it rude.

All that said I'm not interested in arguing this kind of thing and I'm not interested in naming specific people. And I'm also okay with being thought of as a control monster, because I don't care. I'm not interested in being a mod or having any authority here so this wouldn't affect you anyway. I'm just pointing out the fact hate speech is actually a defined set of terms and speech and that it isn't really a nebulous thing.

I also know I'm not changing any minds on anything so if you think I'm wrong, that's fine with me. Agree to disagree. I'm just a scanlation group leader who's long given up on debate and arguing and just wants to have a comment thread on LGBTQ manga not explode into people arguing whether people like me should have rights or not. Or things of that nature of bigotry.

 

[Nick86]

@Bainhardt - indeed, the only way to limit people to troll and make infinite accounts is to restrict the space where people can comment, there is no alternatives, but the devs want a community, a community will inevitably become toxic overtime, all other manga and anime communities already became a cess where moderation was very difficult with all these posting and comment every minute.

As i said before, MD should not become a manga community with all bad consequences that this will bring, but just a site for scanlators and improve the tools and the GUI for such content, not wasting time on people and moderation. The comment section in every manga tab is more than enought to espress opinions, more will be detrimental. This is what i think.

 

[Kierlak]

@Hexxy

Oh, look. Someone demonstrating exactly what I was just talking about.

Hate speech is telling trans people they're mentally ill

Gender dysphoria is literally mental illness. It's a hate fact I guess.

 

[Yautja]

@Hexxy

Hate speech is saying racial slurs like the N word, or telling trans people they're mentally ill, or calling Muslims certain slurs just for their religion. That's hate speech.

This is entirely a non-response. I don't recall seeing any of that in this thread, sans you claiming people are complaining that they aren't aloud to say them, and last time I checked, gender dysphoria is a mental illness. That is a reality, a fact, and a fact isn't hate speech. As for Islam or Muslims, I've literally not once seen those words spoken on this site. I don't know what manga you're reading, but sexism from incels is the only discrimination or 'hate speech' I've seen on this website. You're reaching.

All that said I'm not interested in arguing this kind of thing and I'm not interested in naming specific people. And I'm also okay with being thought of as a control monster, because I don't care. I'm not interested in being a mod or having any authority here so this wouldn't affect you anyway. I'm just pointing out the fact hate speech is actually a defined set of terms and speech and that it isn't really a nebulous thing.

I recall asking for an example; you seem to be dodging the question. Basically what this seems to boil down to is you making an absurd claim that the people in this thread who disagree with you are proponents of "hate speech" calling for the right to say racial slurs or acknowledge literal, clinically defined, mental illnesses. And yes, hate speech is a defined set of terms. It's also been redefined and re-purposed to be used as a weapon in an ideological war to shut out conversation as noted by multiple people and your actions. I also remember saying something about context and intent, but considering a fact is hate speech, I guess those aren't all that relevant. Good job, you're the king of straw-men.

I'm just a scanlation group leader who's long given up on debate and arguing and just wants to have a comment thread on LGBTQ manga not explode into people arguing whether people like me should have rights or not. Or things of that nature of bigotry.

Cut the "I'm the victim" bullshit. If you want anyone to believe this, you're going to have to provide examples but you "don't want to name names". Either substantiate your claims or stop talking. You don't get to make these ridiculous claims with not proof. I'm tired of this self-victimization mentality.

 

[walesgrey]

Point of Order: gender dysphoria is not a mental illness, and is not classified as such in any modern psychological texts. The closest you could reasonably assert is that it is a mental disorder, one that is most effectively treated with a combination of psychotherapy, HRT, and a sufficiently supportive environment. Describing it as "a mental illness" is either naive, ignorant, or a deliberate attempt to insult people while hiding behind a veneer of "but science says so!" to cloak the hostility.

 

[Yautja]

@walesgrey
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder : A mental disorder, also called a mental illness[2] or psychiatric disorder, is a behavioral or mental pattern that causes significant distress or impairment of personal functioning.
https://medlineplus.gov/mentaldisorders.html : A mental illness is a condition that affects a person's thinking, feeling or mood
https://www.nami.org/learn-more/mental-health-conditions : Mental disorders (or mental illnesses) are conditions that affect your thinking, feeling, mood, and behavior.

Give me a break. A near 50% suicide rate and a host of physiological disorders that follow it will not be changed political activism to obfuscate and redefine terms. The best way to help someone who's sick isn't to tell them they aren't sick.

 

[Hexxy]

Okay so gender dysphoria had been declassified as a mental illness like 20 years ago or so. It's literally not a mental illness. But I'm assuming it you're still saying that you're not going to believe me anyway so I don't care. Like I said I'm not interested in debating this, so don't bother. It's also not the point. I was giving examples of what could constitute hate speech, it doesn't mean it was stated in this thread or alluded to previously, just examples of what it could be.

If it seemed like I was dodging, that's because I was. I don't care to argue with people who aren't changing their minds no matter what anyway, on the internet no less. I'll stick to my real life activism that actually does do stuff. I get it, I'm an authoritarian sjw snowflake who's overly sensitive to people just innocently wishing to openly express their disgust at the existence of people like me. Cool, I don't care.

I've heard this all before from people like you a million times already and I already know it won't do either of us any good so I'm just trying to not have us both waste our time.

 

[Bainhardt]

@Kierlak No it..... it isn't nebulous at all. Hate speech is a clearly defined thing. Did you maybe not know that? It even has a Wikipedia page, for example. There have been lawsuits over hate speech and whether or not it is legal; countries around the world have varying legislation regarding the circumstantial legality of hate speech. Do you think those people are making it up as they go??

A good example of how to think about it is very similar to the categorization of some words as "swears" or "cusses;" everybody has varying ideas as to what crosses the line into that category, but if you're in some circumstance where you are not allowed to swear, then you shouldn't say any of the words you think come close to crossing that line. Your definition of what qualifies is not as important as the definition held by the person in this hypothetical circumstance who is banning you from swearing.

I will admit, however, that I agree the "Gay thread" or however it has become referred to in this thread was a mistake.
But, if the only example of "moderators abusing the guidelines" that has been cited so far is an instance where one was trying to interpret intended tone or meaning in a literally one-word post, I can understand there having been some mistakes made. Also, it was likely a result of over-zealousness in the wake of the newly-implemented report system, and not proof of a trend that will definitely develop and remain.

I agree that abuse of power is a troubling thing, but I'm not right there alongside everyone else who seems to agree there's already undeniable proof it will definitely occur. There isn't.

@ninjadork I have been reading the thread from the beginning, which is why I wrote my post as I did. But having reread some of the posts as per your recommendation, I only have this to repeat:

if your immediate reaction to this isn't "oh good hopefully there's gonna be less assholes in the comment section" you might be the reason we now have a report button

 

[Yautja]

@Hexxy
You

I was giving examples of what could constitute hate speech, it doesn't mean it was stated in this thread or alluded to previously, just examples of what it could be.

Also you

Some people really just want to be bigoted and use hate speech without repercussions, this thread has shown.

If it seemed like I was dodging, that's because I was.

That's a great thing to admit when you've accused an entire thread of people of an incredible social crime and in some countries a literal crime. I'm saying this for your sake. Credibility matters. When you say something, you better well be able to back it up otherwise no one will take you seriously.

 

[Kierlak]

@walesgrey

gender dysphoria is not a mental illness it is a mental disorder

That's some impressive hair splitting.

 

[Hexxy]

I haven't accused an entire thread and I don't care about how my credibility looks to people like you on a thread on the internet. I've stated many times now that I both don't care and also don't want to debate or argue because it doesn't get anyone here anywhere. You're going to walk out this thread still thinking I'm an authoritarian with a victim complex and nothing to back anything up, and I'm going to walk out glad I'm not putting any effort into this because it'll be wasted anyway.

Yes, I'm openly admitting all of that. Because I've put effort and sources and all the like into my posts before and nothing ever happens. I'll just be accused of using biased sources or maybe the scientists and whatever will be accused of promoting an agenda. It's happened and keeps happening and nothing ever gets resolved. Cynical? Yes. True? Also yes.

The most I'm glad for is that hate speech is being moderated better now and that's that. What you think of my views on it don't matter because I don't ever want to be a mod or anything anyway. I enforce my values in my own private spaces and IRL.