Rework how the new comments system is to be implemented

[Insignis]

I love MD. I am so used to daily checking my manga feed. Click on comments - no comments nothing happens, comments are there it opens the forum thread. Click on chapter to open it. All in new tabs. Then I read comments, read chapter comments were about. Read chapter and potentially post a comment if there were no comments yet. Or just read comments if its about chapter I already read, just from different group.

Now opening comments opens that damn chapter with some special side tab, showing me last comment or telling me to pay to read/comment/something before others. It automatically marks that chapter as read, so if I just want to read comments, I need to go to the chapter, click the link to the forum in the new panel, close said panel, click on the manga title to go to its main page, and uncheck the "seen" mark, to keep stuff clean like it was before.

Not to be rude, but who ever designed this change has no clue what clean UI/UX is or they were forced by someone to make the site worse, to make fake "viewed/seen" marks appear on as many chapters and their versions as possible, and/or make people dislike commenting to close the forums? Cause like this is just bad.

 

[Lunkli]

[...]

Haha, look at that you've just ignored my entire comment again! I'm done with this; I'm not making the mistake of getting invested in an argument with someone that refuses to take anything I say seriously again.

 

[grrman]

Hopefully when they open comments to normies, they actually use them. Cause damn would I feel bad for the dev team. All that work, bugs, and backlash.

Just for everyone to step over it as if it was a turd on the sidewalk. (Disclaimer, I step over the new comments too...).

INB4 the monkey's paw curls, and when they do allow normies to use them, the mods will be swamped with sales bots trying to exploit the new comments. Oh, and can't forget the edgelord kiddies trying to write slurs indirectly.

My sympathy for the dev teams depends if this is a "we're doing just we're told" or a "we're all in on it" scenario. Given the one reply I've seen from a dev (Ataraxic) in this thread, I strongly suspect it's the latter, in which case, no sympathy.

They should just take the L already and undo this insanity that no one likes.

 

[Narf]

My sympathy for the dev teams depends if this is a "we're doing just we're told" or a "we're all in on it" scenario. Given the one reply I've seen from a dev (Ataraxic) in this thread, I strongly suspect it's the latter, in which case, no sympathy.

They should just take the L already and undo this insanity that no one likes.

I certainly share your feelings. Both of them being fully committed to this change, no matter people's feedback, and on feeling no sympathy if they crash and burn with forcing it on people who never asked for this change. If they are so hell-bent on ignoring their userbase in the hope of appealing to people used to instagram's and other social media sites's style, then they can deal with the bed they've made themselves.

I've admittedly never been the most active forum user, the chapter or title comments are pretty much all I've been active in, but I did use those quite a bit even if it just was for reading what people thought. Since this change went live, I've pretty much stopped that entirely. Sometimes I still clicked on what used to directly link to the comment thread out of habit, only to have that awful sidebar load up and I instantly lose all will to even bother. Yes, it's just one additional click to read the "older comments", but having this shit thrown in my face instantly kills any desire to bother.

 

[Panino]

PLEASE!
Allows us to "ONE CLICK" to the comments in the forums, why do we need to first load the chapter, click to open a menu and then click again to reach the comments?!

 

[Narf]

They have apparently made two small changes now. Have a screenshot of some random frontpage entry as example:

Clicking the comments link in the follow list or the title overwiew now directly opens the sidebar with the new comment section, rather than loading the chapter first. They have also reworded the link to the forums from "older comments" (which was misleading wording) to now "more comments in the forums).

Wasn't the whole point of this nonsense that the comments HAVE to be next to the content because that would drive engagement? A very questionable theory I'd say, but that was their reasoning. Now if they aren't next to the content in that case... why the hell is it still the sidebar rather than the forums that this link goes to first? The entire point they've made has disappeared now that the content those comments referred to isn't even visible, there is not a single reason that this link would open the sidebar first rather than directly go to the forums.


I've also observed that the new comment sidebar isn't properly integrated with the reader. What I mean is, rather than be part of the width consideration of the manga reader, the image adjusting so that its width is fully visible next to the sidebar, the latter just plasters over the manga's imagefile even if the reader is in "Fit Width" setting if the manga's image is large or it's a wide double page. That's just not good design even if I was in favour of the new comments (I very much am not).
e.g. from the same random manga the first screenshot is from:

 

[shinya78]

They have apparently made two small changes now. Have a screenshot of some random frontpage entry as example:

Spoiler: Screenshot image

Clicking the comments link in the follow list or the title overwiew now directly opens the sidebar with the new comment section, rather than loading the chapter first. They have also reworded the link to the forums from "older comments" (which was misleading wording) to now "more comments in the forums).

Wasn't the whole point of this nonsense that the comments HAVE to be next to the content because that would drive engagement? A very questionable theory I'd say, but that was their reasoning. Now if they aren't next to the content in that case... why the hell is it still the sidebar rather than the forums that this link goes to first? The entire point they've made has disappeared now that the content those comments referred to isn't even visible, there is not a single reason that this link would open the sidebar first rather than directly go to the forums.


I've also observed that the new comment sidebar isn't properly integrated with the reader. What I mean is, rather than be part of the width consideration of the manga reader, the image adjusting so that its width is fully visible next to the sidebar, the latter just plasters over the manga's imagefile even if the reader is in "Fit Width" setting if the manga's image is large or it's a wide double page. That's just not good design even if I was in favour of the new comments (I very much am not).
e.g. from the same random manga the first screenshot is from:

Spoiler: Screenshot image

Yup, those are the end results of two other suggestions that went through.

• Do not open the reader if you just want to read the comments
• Be explicit about the fact that older comments exist in the forums to prevent confusing it as if you're going to be navigated to the next page of comments.

They're perfectly fine with the new system being accessible without going through the reader first, but as far as their reasoning goes...

However, two systems cannot coexist with the same weight because the regular users will get confused and wonder what it is they should use. In such case, as a developer, you need to choose which to encourage. It makes sense to encourage the kind that is right next to the content because that is the easier way for the user to comment.

...this means users cannot completely bypass the new system in order to go straight to the discussions/comments that are in the forums.

This very suggestion thread, which could be summarized as...

This 4th one is based off of my original stance when the change is announced, when the new system was still only exclusive to the Canary version.

• It assumes the quick forums button(text bubble icon), now comments button, still functions as it used to.
• It assumes that the new integrated comments is exclusive to the Reader.

...and this other suggestion, which calls for a separate button to go directly to the forum discussions from the chapter cards, are effectively rejected because they wanted the users to go through the new system first. I wouldn't say their entire point disappeared, the new system is still accessible directly from the reader, but it seems they really wanted to prioritize making sure the users would have to pass through the new system for some reason... cue tinfoil hats, but that's for another thread.

Suggestion threads exists such as this one which aims to improve the current design, and this one which aims to move the system away from the current design to become a more forum-like environment instead. Feel free to add your suggestions to any of those threads if for some reason you want to.

 

[BestBoy]

I've also observed that the new comment sidebar isn't properly integrated with the reader

I'm pretty sure that's how the flyout menu has always worked in the reader?

 

[Z3RYX]

Here's a radical thought: why are we showing the new comments to users who can't participate in them? I know they're someday going to be open to every user, but at the moment it is more confusing to the average user to have a comment section pop up by default that they can't interact with. Just hide the new system for those who can't make use of it.

 

[terribletrivium]

Therefore, sorry, but I think having two buttons of equal weight on the reader menu for the same purpose (adding a comment) is not something we can do. Additionally, the comment button on chapter cards cannot open the link to the forums because that'd be confusing and make the user miss any on-site comments made.

It's significantly more confusing that the function of the button that already existed for years has now suddenly changed. Also, this reasoning for not adding two buttons makes no sense. Or rather it makes just as much sense as adding two separate comment sections, so if you can justify one you can surely justify the other.

 

[shinya78]

It's significantly more confusing that the function of the button that already existed for years has now suddenly changed. Also, this reasoning for not adding two buttons makes no sense. Or rather it makes just as much sense as adding two separate comment sections, so if you can justify one you can surely justify the other.

No "two buttons", denied!
Sorry, couldn't help it.

 

[Narf]

I'm pretty sure that's how the flyout menu has always worked in the reader?

You entirely missed my point, despite the explanation and the screenshot, somehow. I wasn't saying that it isn't working, I'm saying that the way it is working, covering parts of the image, is bad design.

 

[BestBoy]

You entirely missed my point, despite the explanation and the screenshot, somehow. I wasn't saying that it isn't working, I'm saying that the way it is working, covering parts of the image, is bad design.

I didn't miss your point, you've just moved the goalposts. If your issue was with a design that's several years old, you wouldn't have phrased it as:

the new comment sidebar isn't properly integrated with the reader.

If you had an issue with the flyout menu, you should have made your own separate suggestion thread about the flyout menu in its entirety. It isn't relevant to this thread.

 

[Narf]

I didn't miss your point, you've just moved the goalposts. If your issue was with a design that's several years old, you wouldn't have phrased it as:

If you had an issue with the flyout menu, you should have made your own separate suggestion thread about the flyout menu in its entirety. It isn't relevant to this thread.

Your inability to understand it the first time around does not change that my other comment said exactly the same already. No goalpost-moving going on.

The difference between the flyout menu and the new comments is that nobody would keep the first one open. It's something one opens once, changes the setting they want to access, and then closes again. As such the fact that it isn't properly integrated with the reader does not matter in my opinion.
Meanwhile the new comments are supposed to be open for more than just a moment, to read and interact with thaat part. Thus it being properly integrated with the content that it comments on matters.

But by all means, keep getting hung up on a side remark. It's well in line with the very important contributions you have made in this thread so far. Don't bother replying, I won't see it anyway.

 

[BestBoy]

Don't bother replying, I won't see it anyway

Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Your inability to understand

I understood your comment, I just think it isn't relevant to this thread and I think your suggestion is less elegant that the current V5 menu design. Resizing the chapter to accommodate the menu would look awful on mobile. The resized page would be the width of a grain of rice.

Thus it being properly integrated with the content that it comments on matters

None of that paragraph matters since your suggestion would likely mean redesigning the chapter flyout menu in its entirety. If they have a flyout menu for settings and then comments that resize the chapter, they lose the design consistency, making it look sloppy and unprofessional. Both of them have to function the same.

But by all means, keep getting hung up on a side remark

What you call a "side remark" is the thesis of your paragraph. But keep downplaying it's importance to your suggestion and then run and hide. Really makes you seem confident.

very important contributions

Compared to your contributions of...complaining about things that have already been fixed or making suggestions that need their own threads. Oof ya really showed me there.

 

[Babymech2]

I don't know what this thread is about now, but I think we can all agree that this Comments experiment has been an astounding success - the engagement is frankly unprecedented

 

[JVick]

I don't know what this thread is about now, but I think we can all agree that this Comments experiment has been an astounding success - the engagement is frankly unprecedented

More messages here than the entirety of the new comment section

 

[AnonymousContributor]

Just hopping in to say I also think the new comment section blows goats. I don’t think y’all shoulda fucked with it. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it tbh. OP shouldn’t have had to write the Illiad to explain why it sucks, and the response was also a massive text dump to say lol no. God, this is so stupid.

holy shit we got mao anime posting lol

 

[Kosnope]

Buries forum access under much more visible comment section access
Inevitably: "Forum usage has dwindled since the implementation of the comments feature, so we're gonna sunset the forums. Please look forward to it. We will not be taking questions at this time."

Jokes on them, the comment system so far is BARREN. Out of like 30 recent chapters I personally read, maybe three had 1 (one) comment, while discussions were like 50+. The rest had literally 0 comments.

 

[Kosnope]

No "two buttons", denied!
Sorry, couldn't help it.

Remember, these 2 systems are separate, but NOT equal

 

[Sparrowhawk]

holy shit we got mao anime posting lol

Rumiko stan for life over here