Haite Kudasai, Takamine-san - Vol. 9 Ch. 56 - Show me how you'll hide it

[Schernobyl]

People do crazy things all the time
But, being serious, yes the manga started off with her doing some insane-o unethical shit. Although I don't think it's as simple as "all's well that ends well," you have to keep in mind that it's fiction, and not only fiction, but a type of comedy manga where the level of caricature and abstraction is upped compared to more grounded fiction where psychology and consequence are more unforgiving. We're talking about a medium where murderous yanderes have been around for the longest time, as have physically abusive tsunderes. Where characters such as Bon Clay who slaughtered people en masse are considered redeemed because they happen to be homies. There are so many unethical things that happen in manga (and fiction in general) that are considered endearing or swept under the rug and not acknowledged. Part of me thinks that the reason people can't take these kind of fictional scenario at face value is because they can't separate them from real life politics and enjoy them for what they are in a world of caricature where consequences are not the same.
Anyway I like her and am rooting for her and that's that.

I get that and understand it's a romcom. The initial concept had so much potential. My hope was the premise was going to be about Shirota escaping Takamines control and finding love. Made hard because Takamine has her powers. Overall I'm just along to see how bad she can be to Shirota and everyone be okay with it.

 

[grumbles]

ill admit, I laughed HARD at the 2 page spread of him bumbling/tripping into blocking the shot. Its just SO stupid its funny.

 

[CulR]

If the anime adaptation doesn't become another victim of prim censorship, then it has the potential to be one of the most amazing meta-ironic ecchi anime.

There's an anime adaptation?!?!

 

[SuperOniichan]

There's an anime adaptation?!?!

On August 2, the adaptation was announced and the official website was opened

 

[Esgar]

People do crazy things all the time
But, being serious, yes the manga started off with her doing some insane-o unethical shit. Although I don't think it's as simple as "all's well that ends well," you have to keep in mind that it's fiction, and not only fiction, but a type of comedy manga where the level of caricature and abstraction is upped compared to more grounded fiction where psychology and consequence are more unforgiving. We're talking about a medium where murderous yanderes have been around for the longest time, as have physically abusive tsunderes. Where characters such as Bon Clay who slaughtered people en masse are considered redeemed because they happen to be homies. There are so many unethical things that happen in manga (and fiction in general) that are considered endearing or swept under the rug and not acknowledged. Part of me thinks that the reason people can't take these kind of fictional scenario at face value is because they can't separate them from real life politics and enjoy them for what they are in a world of caricature where consequences are not the same.
Anyway I like her and am rooting for her and that's that.

It's completely understandable that there are people who like her because it satisfies their femdom fantasy. That doesn't change the fact that she is objectively awful.

Please don't compare her to Bon Clay, because, even though he did very terrible things (although he was never shown to "slaughter people en masse"), he was also shown to have incredibly good qualities as a person later on. It's still totally fine to dislike him as a character, though - it would be completely understandable. But, in every sense of the word, he really was redeemed in the eyes of the readers through his later actions.

That said, when faced with a character in a "romance," you can't just ignore everything they do because "it's fiction." Mainly because most readers of this genre will relate to it in some way or another, since it tackles a deep, universal human experience - romance. They will inevitably view these stories through the lens of putting themselves in that position. If you're reading a manga about a brutal rapist main character, should you just shut up and love him because "it's fiction"?

The only things that Takamine has done in this manga boil down to her being terrible to the MC. One of them is essentially the very worst thing that a woman can do to a man - threaten him with an inescapable false rape accusation. She then goes on to literally enslave him and humiliates him in pretty much every chapter. There is practically no "good" deed or change in character that follows that. That's literally all that there is to this dynamic, except her also getting slightly flustered by him for a moment before, once again, beating him down with her oppressive dynamic with him.

So, even though this is fiction, she is objectively a very, very bad woman and it makes perfect sense why most male readers would be put off by her. The only real cases where I think people might find her appealing are if you are a woman (who doesnt really get the male perspective, but likes the femdom) or a man, who either doesnt care about her character and just likes the pretty images or is specifically into hardcore femdom with false accusations and blackmail.

It's kinda funny because even men who are typically into femdom get a bit turned off by false rape accusations and completely imbalanced dynamics such as these. It's usually very, very easy to please men when it comes to characters like these. You can basically make them terrible in every way and men will just gobble it up, as long as she is hot. But this manga actually made her do one of the things that's hard to swallow even for some of the most hardcore masochists lol.

 

[Kitsune_115]

This series is hilarious

 

[RockyRose]

The only things that Takamine has done in this manga are to be terrible to the MC. One of them is essentially the very worst thing that a woman can do to a man - threaten him with an inescapable false rape accusation. She then goes on to literally enslave him and humiliates him in pretty much every chapter. There is practically no "good" deed or change in character that follows that.
That's literally all that there is to this dynamic. She is objectively a very, very bad woman and it makes perfect sense why most male readers would be put off by her.

This all comes off as if you haven't actually been reading the manga at all. The blackmail happened in chapter 1 and was obviously awful, but has by no means been the sole thing defining the manga or its characters. By chapter 2, she expressed to the main character a lack of intention to actually use such blackmail to get him to do what she wants. From then on, what connects the two main characters is largely positive attraction, rather than blackmail. Does she occasionally do things that could be considered emotionally abusive or manipulative? Sure, for instance in chapter 5 she told him that she'd go out running without a bra if he didn't bring her the underwear he'd accidentally taken home with him. At the end of the chapter, it was revealed that she was wearing a jacket, and she texted him, with regret, that she was just messing with him. A lot of these manipulations are just ways of her getting him to go on dates with her or of motivating him to overcome his own obstacles. And a lot of them seem to be part of what is understood to be a consensual relationship between the two of them as master and closet. Never is any of this anywhere near so beyond the pale as the blackmail in chapter one. There is a lot more to both her and the main character than a sadist/slave dynamic, and she hardly ever humiliates him, much less every chapter as you stated. Throughout the course of the manga, she shows him a lot of affection, builds up his confidence and ambition, helps him study, etc. Not to mention all of the "service" she supplies him with. In chapter 3 she saves his life. In chapter 6 she takes care of him and cooks for him while he's ill. In chapter 8, she helps him build up his ambition in a long-distance running event. In chapter 10 he expresses a desire to study and improve himself, and so she holds back her power all day despite having a strong compulsion to use it at several points, just to support him. And this is leaving out many of the little acts of kindness and vulnerability that are sprinkled throughout. Their relationship is not just one way, either, and you can clearly see that Shirota cares deeply for her from early on and gets a lot out of their relationship.

Please don't compare her to Bon Clay, because, even though he did very terrible things (although he was never shown to "slaughter people en masse"), he was also shown to have incredibly good qualities as a person later on.

My language about Bon Clay was wrong, I misremembered Bon Clay's role somewhat, thinking that he had disguised himself as King Cobra and ordered the Royal Army to attack the rebels directly at one point. Nevertheless, he did play a direct role in what was going on as one of Crocodile's agents. I think that this is an example of a character who, having done something that would normally be considered beyond redemption by many, is easily redeemed by showing off his quality of being loyal to friends. I truly believe that this mainly only works because One Piece is a less grounded fiction where the focus isn't always on strict moral consequences for every action.

you can't just ignore everything they do because "it's fiction." Mainly because most readers of this genre will relate to it in some way or another, since it tackles a deep, universal human experience - romance. They will inevitably view these stories through the lens of putting themselves in that position.
If you're reading a manga about a brutal rapist main character, should you just shut up and love him because "it's fiction"?

Of course you can't just ignore everything a character does because it's in a fiction. That's silly and not what I meant. My point is that fiction, especially cartoons and manga, often play by different rules than the real world. These mediums exaggerate or caricature reality, often functioning on a more symbolic level rather than being a representative real-life behavior. Characters in manga tend to push boundaries, and sometimes do things things that would be inexcusable in real life. That doesn't mean that you need to completely endorse their actions, it just means that consequences or framing within the story might be different from what we'd expect in more grounded fiction. For example, Ainz commits horrific acts like genocide and slavery, yet readers aren't expected to reject him entirely. He's treated more as an antihero. In more grounded series, Light Yagami and Lelouch both commit atrocities in the pursuit of their selfish goals, but people can still root for them. Yeah the blackmail in the first chapter was a super no-no, but the manga isn't about real-world moral lessons, it's about entertainment, with exaggerated character dynamics and a level of abstraction that should tell you the story isn't to be taken literally. Of course the blackmail was inexcusable, but they're part of, and introduce you to, a broader dynamic that's meant to be playful, comedic, and part of a pretty common master-servant trope. Yes, people will relate to these stories, but that doesn't mean they need to apply these dynamics to their real life. It's about the fantasy, of these ralationships, which operate under different logic than real-life romances. Manga romances can have power dynamics and extreme emotions that aren't realistic, but thats part of what makes them compelling.

The only real cases where I think people might find her appealing are if you are a woman (who doesn't really get the male perspective, but likes the femdom) or a man, who either doesn't care about her character and just likes the pretty images, or a man who is specifically into hardcore femdom with false accusations and blackmail.
It's kinda funny because even men who are typically into femdom get a bit turned off by false rape accusations and completely imbalanced dynamics such as these. It's usually very, very easy to please men when it comes to characters like these. You can basically make them terrible in every way and men will just gobble it up, as long as she is hot. But this manga actually made her do one of the things that's hard to swallow even for some of the most hardcore masochists lol.

I'm pretty sure most women would 'get the male perspective' here, though obviously they can't truly understand what he went through 1:1, but frankly, neither can you - because you aren't Shirota. That said, I think they might, on average, have more of an understanding of what it's like to be a victim of blackmail given that women are victims of blackmail all the time, so much so that it shows up commonly as a trope in the worst hentai. Additionally, let it be known that smutty manga geared towards women generally shows relationships that are 10000000000000x more toxic than what you're seeing here anyway. As for men, I don't think men have to either 1.) not care about her character or 2.) be into femdom specifically with blackmail to find her appealing. Blackmail seriously hasn't reared its head much at all in this manga. I think you have a habit of reducing people and find it a little insulting. Yes, she's hot, and that counts for a lot, let's just be honest here, but let's talk about Pres's personality. You act like she some static quantity, with no reason for how she acts and no propensity to change. It's true that we don't know her full backstory yet, but we know she was intensely lonely in elementary school and fell in love with Shirota while they were caring for a stray cat together. She seemed to confess to him at some point and then disappear after his response, which was left ambiguous. Aside from that she's no doubt suffering from some sorts of trauma from other areas in her life. Okay, okay, past aside - let's talk about her good points in the manga. She's obviously a tsundere, which isn't everyone's cup of tea, but she is evocative of a cat with how she seems to act somewhat coldly, but has a quirky pride and a sense of/desire for affection that's quite adorable. It's hilarious and somewhat endearing the ways she will use the rewind power to appear absolutely perfect, such as by reversing time when asked to stand and speak in class so she can time it with the wind blowing through her hair. She also cares deeply about Shirota and tries to build him up, compliment him, and help him where she can. She also evolves over the course of the series, contrary to some peoples' beliefs, but I'm a bit tired of writing this comment tbh so I'll leave that to you to figure out. But yeah, in the end this is an ecchi series and that's okay.

 

[RockyRose]

^probably could have tightened that up and made it easier to digest, sorry, was a bit train-of-thoughty, but it I think it was thorough and correct. Of course you're entitled to your own opinions of Takamine, and for some people it really may just come down to:

 

[Beatrice]

Been 4 years and people are STILL bringing up SA shit as if this series doesn't run on doujin logic. Just laugh at the absurdity and move on, Christ.

 

[RockyRose]

Been 4 years and people are STILL bringing up SA shit as if this series doesn't run on doujin logic. Just laugh at the absurdity and move on, Christ.

don't make me write an essay about you

 

[Lex79]

I'm in the middle ground regarding Takamine. We know as omniscient readers that she likes Shirota and a lot of what she does is her twisted way to motivate him to self improve. Still, I'm not a fan of her constant abusive behavior...I kept hoping that the series would lead to her becoming more dere and less tsun, but doesn't seem what the author has in mind, or maybe we aren't at that point yet.
Shirota of course is equally at fault for enabling her at every occasion. Again, I was hoping for a different type of character development for him but shoukd they ever get married, I guess his vows would be to her closet for life.

 

[Doutorfunga]

This all comes off as if you haven't actually been reading the manga at all. The blackmail happened in chapter 1 and was obviously awful, but has by no means been the sole thing defining the manga or its characters. By chapter 2, she expressed to the main character a lack of intention to actually use such blackmail to get him to do what she wants. From then on, what connects the two main characters is largely positive attraction, rather than blackmail. Does she occasionally do things that could be considered emotionally abusive or manipulative? Sure, for instance in chapter 5 she told him that she'd go out running without a bra if he didn't bring her the underwear he'd accidentally taken home with him. At the end of the chapter, it was revealed that she was wearing a jacket, and she texted him, with regret, that she was just messing with him. A lot of these manipulations are just ways of her getting him to go on dates with her or of motivating him to overcome his own obstacles. And a lot of them seem to be part of what is understood to be a consensual relationship between the two of them as master and closet. Never is any of this anywhere near so beyond the pale as the blackmail in chapter one. There is a lot more to both her and the main character than a sadist/slave dynamic, and she hardly ever humiliates him, much less every chapter as you stated. Throughout the course of the manga, she shows him a lot of affection, builds up his confidence and ambition, helps him study, etc. Not to mention all of the "service" she supplies him with. In chapter 3 she saves his life. In chapter 6 she takes care of him and cooks for him while he's ill. In chapter 8, she helps him build up his ambition in a long-distance running event. In chapter 10 he expresses a desire to study and improve himself, and so she holds back her power all day despite having a strong compulsion to use it at several points, just to support him. And this is leaving out many of the little acts of kindness and vulnerability that are sprinkled throughout. Their relationship is not just one way, either, and you can clearly see that Shirota cares deeply for her from early on and gets a lot out of their relationship.

My language about Bon Clay was wrong, I misremembered Bon Clay's role somewhat, thinking that he had disguised himself as King Cobra and ordered the Royal Army to attack the rebels directly at one point. Nevertheless, he did play a direct role in what was going on as one of Crocodile's agents. I think that this is an example of a character who, having done something that would normally be considered beyond redemption by many, is easily redeemed by showing off his quality of being loyal to friends. I truly believe that this mainly only works because One Piece is a less grounded fiction where the focus isn't always on strict moral consequences for every action.

Of course you can't just ignore everything a character does because it's in a fiction. That's silly and not what I meant. My point is that fiction, especially cartoons and manga, often play by different rules than the real world. These mediums exaggerate or caricature reality, often functioning on a more symbolic level rather than being a representative real-life behavior. Characters in manga tend to push boundaries, and sometimes do things things that would be inexcusable in real life. That doesn't mean that you need to completely endorse their actions, it just means that consequences or framing within the story might be different from what we'd expect in more grounded fiction. For example, Ainz commits horrific acts like genocide and slavery, yet readers aren't expected to reject him entirely. He's treated more as an antihero. In more grounded series, Light Yagami and Lelouch both commit atrocities in the pursuit of their selfish goals, but people can still root for them. Yeah the blackmail in the first chapter was a super no-no, but the manga isn't about real-world moral lessons, it's about entertainment, with exaggerated character dynamics and a level of abstraction that should tell you the story isn't to be taken literally. Of course the blackmail was inexcusable, but they're part of, and introduce you to, a broader dynamic that's meant to be playful, comedic, and part of a pretty common master-servant trope. Yes, people will relate to these stories, but that doesn't mean they need to apply these dynamics to their real life. It's about the fantasy, of these ralationships, which operate under different logic than real-life romances. Manga romances can have power dynamics and extreme emotions that aren't realistic, but thats part of what makes them compelling.

I'm pretty sure most women would 'get the male perspective' here, though obviously they can't truly understand what he went through 1:1, but frankly, neither can you - because you aren't Shirota. That said, I think they might, on average, have more of an understanding of what it's like to be a victim of blackmail given that women are victims of blackmail all the time, so much so that it shows up commonly as a trope in the worst hentai. Additionally, let it be known that smutty manga geared towards women generally shows relationships that are 10000000000000x more toxic than what you're seeing here anyway. As for men, I don't think men have to either 1.) not care about her character or 2.) be into femdom specifically with blackmail to find her appealing. Blackmail seriously hasn't reared its head much at all in this manga. I think you have a habit of reducing people and find it a little insulting. Yes, she's hot, and that counts for a lot, let's just be honest here, but let's talk about Pres's personality. You act like she some static quantity, with no reason for how she acts and no propensity to change. It's true that we don't know her full backstory yet, but we know she was intensely lonely in elementary school and fell in love with Shirota while they were caring for a stray cat together. She seemed to confess to him at some point and then disappear after his response, which was left ambiguous. Aside from that she's no doubt suffering from some sorts of trauma from other areas in her life. Okay, okay, past aside - let's talk about her good points in the manga. She's obviously a tsundere, which isn't everyone's cup of tea, but she is evocative of a cat with how she seems to act somewhat coldly, but has a quirky pride and a sense of/desire for affection that's quite adorable. It's hilarious and somewhat endearing the ways she will use the rewind power to appear absolutely perfect, such as by reversing time when asked to stand and speak in class so she can time it with the wind blowing through her hair. She also cares deeply about Shirota and tries to build him up, compliment him, and help him where she can. She also evolves over the course of the series, contrary to some peoples' beliefs, but I'm a bit tired of writing this comment tbh so I'll leave that to you to figure out. But yeah, in the end this is an ecchi series and that's okay.

You guys arguing show more care and thought than this manga gets from its author and editor, no joke

 

[Loliphilosophy]

Takamine-san is finally going all out and is just going to become a rapist...

 

[SomeMoron]

Another chapter, another day of being utterly baffled by wtf this is

 

[Esgar]

This all comes off as if you haven't actually been reading the manga at all. The blackmail happened in chapter 1 and was obviously awful, but has by no means been the sole thing defining the manga or its characters. By chapter 2, she expressed to the main character a lack of intention to actually use such blackmail to get him to do what she wants. From then on, what connects the two main characters is largely positive attraction, rather than blackmail. Does she occasionally do things that could be considered emotionally abusive or manipulative? Sure, for instance in chapter 5 she told him that she'd go out running without a bra if he didn't bring her the underwear he'd accidentally taken home with him. At the end of the chapter, it was revealed that she was wearing a jacket, and she texted him, with regret, that she was just messing with him. A lot of these manipulations are just ways of her getting him to go on dates with her or of motivating him to overcome his own obstacles. And a lot of them seem to be part of what is understood to be a consensual relationship between the two of them as master and closet. Never is any of this anywhere near so beyond the pale as the blackmail in chapter one. There is a lot more to both her and the main character than a sadist/slave dynamic, and she hardly ever humiliates him, much less every chapter as you stated. Throughout the course of the manga, she shows him a lot of affection, builds up his confidence and ambition, helps him study, etc. Not to mention all of the "service" she supplies him with. In chapter 3 she saves his life. In chapter 6 she takes care of him and cooks for him while he's ill. In chapter 8, she helps him build up his ambition in a long-distance running event. In chapter 10 he expresses a desire to study and improve himself, and so she holds back her power all day despite having a strong compulsion to use it at several points, just to support him. And this is leaving out many of the little acts of kindness and vulnerability that are sprinkled throughout. Their relationship is not just one way, either, and you can clearly see that Shirota cares deeply for her from early on and gets a lot out of their relationship.

My language about Bon Clay was wrong, I misremembered Bon Clay's role somewhat, thinking that he had disguised himself as King Cobra and ordered the Royal Army to attack the rebels directly at one point. Nevertheless, he did play a direct role in what was going on as one of Crocodile's agents. I think that this is an example of a character who, having done something that would normally be considered beyond redemption by many, is easily redeemed by showing off his quality of being loyal to friends. I truly believe that this mainly only works because One Piece is a less grounded fiction where the focus isn't always on strict moral consequences for every action.

Of course you can't just ignore everything a character does because it's in a fiction. That's silly and not what I meant. My point is that fiction, especially cartoons and manga, often play by different rules than the real world. These mediums exaggerate or caricature reality, often functioning on a more symbolic level rather than being a representative real-life behavior. Characters in manga tend to push boundaries, and sometimes do things things that would be inexcusable in real life. That doesn't mean that you need to completely endorse their actions, it just means that consequences or framing within the story might be different from what we'd expect in more grounded fiction. For example, Ainz commits horrific acts like genocide and slavery, yet readers aren't expected to reject him entirely. He's treated more as an antihero. In more grounded series, Light Yagami and Lelouch both commit atrocities in the pursuit of their selfish goals, but people can still root for them. Yeah the blackmail in the first chapter was a super no-no, but the manga isn't about real-world moral lessons, it's about entertainment, with exaggerated character dynamics and a level of abstraction that should tell you the story isn't to be taken literally. Of course the blackmail was inexcusable, but they're part of, and introduce you to, a broader dynamic that's meant to be playful, comedic, and part of a pretty common master-servant trope. Yes, people will relate to these stories, but that doesn't mean they need to apply these dynamics to their real life. It's about the fantasy, of these ralationships, which operate under different logic than real-life romances. Manga romances can have power dynamics and extreme emotions that aren't realistic, but thats part of what makes them compelling.

I'm pretty sure most women would 'get the male perspective' here, though obviously they can't truly understand what he went through 1:1, but frankly, neither can you - because you aren't Shirota. That said, I think they might, on average, have more of an understanding of what it's like to be a victim of blackmail given that women are victims of blackmail all the time, so much so that it shows up commonly as a trope in the worst hentai. Additionally, let it be known that smutty manga geared towards women generally shows relationships that are 10000000000000x more toxic than what you're seeing here anyway. As for men, I don't think men have to either 1.) not care about her character or 2.) be into femdom specifically with blackmail to find her appealing. Blackmail seriously hasn't reared its head much at all in this manga. I think you have a habit of reducing people and find it a little insulting. Yes, she's hot, and that counts for a lot, let's just be honest here, but let's talk about Pres's personality. You act like she some static quantity, with no reason for how she acts and no propensity to change. It's true that we don't know her full backstory yet, but we know she was intensely lonely in elementary school and fell in love with Shirota while they were caring for a stray cat together. She seemed to confess to him at some point and then disappear after his response, which was left ambiguous. Aside from that she's no doubt suffering from some sorts of trauma from other areas in her life. Okay, okay, past aside - let's talk about her good points in the manga. She's obviously a tsundere, which isn't everyone's cup of tea, but she is evocative of a cat with how she seems to act somewhat coldly, but has a quirky pride and a sense of/desire for affection that's quite adorable. It's hilarious and somewhat endearing the ways she will use the rewind power to appear absolutely perfect, such as by reversing time when asked to stand and speak in class so she can time it with the wind blowing through her hair. She also cares deeply about Shirota and tries to build him up, compliment him, and help him where she can. She also evolves over the course of the series, contrary to some peoples' beliefs, but I'm a bit tired of writing this comment tbh so I'll leave that to you to figure out. But yeah, in the end this is an ecchi series and that's okay.

That's a crazy amount of words and assumptions just to justify her literally enslaving this guy to be her "closet" with the threat of magically ruining his life with a false rape accusation. Seriously, dude, it's fine if you like the scenario, but it's actually unhinged to claim that it's morally incorrect to dislike her.

I feel like what she did goes quite a few steps beyond "tsundere" territory and literally into sexual assault, false accusation and actual enslavement territory. There's not even a hint of consent in this story. It's also absolutely wild that you claim that "women would know more about blackmail than men" as if men arent the main target of false accusations to begin with. Yeah, maybe they know more about doing the blackmailing /jk. I've had personal experience with the kind of damage that women can do to a man with just a few words, so I would appreciate it if you wouldnt make such wildly unfair, sexist assumptions.

Please point me to the passage where she clearly states that she wont use that blackmail scenario in chapter 2? Did I miss it? Literally, go to page 11 in chapter 2 and she threatens him with that exact scenario. Her saying "but really there is no threat to you, I just want you to do your best" is completely inconsequential, because she continues to force him to do things later. It's hardly a clear message of "you're free to go if you want to." If I was in his position and knew that she literally had the power to ruin my life and that she was essentially telling me "I'm your master and you must be at my beck and call all day," I would still feel insanely uncomfortable about that dynamic, even if she said "OBEY ME, but there is no threat to you I pinky promise teehee." https://mangadex.org/chapter/fbb4c845-9b97-44d4-b870-637a8ebd6be3/11

That threat that she made was very, very real. She even made him go through the consequences, of having the police talk to him, of being close to have his life ruined, before reverting it. That's not something you can just skip over. That's not something that can be glossed over with "teehee be my slave, but you know I just want you to do your best, there is no threat, I swear! But if you disobey..." She literally made him live through it, then threatened him with it, while saying "but no really, I swear there is no threat against you, just do your best being my slave lol." Sorry, but that just doesnt cut it, not even close. Even if she acted like an angel after doing that, profusely apologizing and trying to mend things, I would still view that action alone as a dealbreaker for any romance. She doesnt even come close to doing that, but instead enslaves and humiliates him.

Ugh.

If she is as good as you say, does she ever give him a clear choice to leave? To stop being her "closet"? Or does he still have no choice? How exactly can we gloss over her false accusation threat if it is clearly still being used and if she is clearly forcing him to obey her? Even far after chapter 2, she still claims that he has "no choice and must obey her" repeatedly. That's coming from someone that he knows can ruin his life at a whim. Just think about it for a bit.

That last passage of yours seemed so defensive about women, so I'm a bit a curious, are you a woman? That would explain a few things about your assumptions, I guess, especially the dismissal of her false rape accusation threat that she is holding over him. (Not to say that all women think like this, but it's more likely that a woman would think it is no big deal I guess, from personal experience).

Either way, your staunch and unfair defense of her just makes me dislike her even more, because it reminds me that there are plenty of people that justify shit like this... Sorry, I guess I just really hate this character. Maybe it's just personal and I hate women like this, but I feel like it's not just me and likely most men would agree. She is obviously not real and larger than life, but women being manipulative predators and blackmailing with false accusations is definitely real. I know that all too well.

This chapter was just a reminder of that. How she pinched his face and told him that his "duty is just to be her closet." The dynamic is just the same as always, just more extreme. It tells me that if he would ever choose to leave and not return her advances, she would just use her cheat ability to force him to stay as her slave, if nothing more. That's how she lives, isnt it? By getting what she wants with her "redos." Again, ugh.

 

[eddat2017]

Thanks for chapter👍

 

[Schernobyl]

That's a crazy amount of words and assumptions just to justify her literally enslaving this guy to be her "closet" with the threat of magically ruining his life with a false rape accusation. Seriously, dude, it's fine if you like the scenario, but it's actually unhinged to claim that it's morally incorrect to dislike her.

I feel like what she did goes quite a few steps beyond "tsundere" territory and literally into sexual assault, false accusation and actual enslavement territory. There's not even a hint of consent in this story. It's also absolutely wild that you claim that "women would know more about blackmail than men" as if men arent the main target of false accusations to begin with. Yeah, maybe they know more about doing the blackmailing /jk. I've had personal experience with the kind of damage that women can do to a man with just a few words, so I would appreciate it if you wouldnt make such wildly unfair, sexist assumptions.

Please point me to the passage where she clearly states that she wont use that blackmail scenario in chapter 2? Did I miss it? Literally, go to page 11 in chapter 2 and she threatens him with that exact scenario. Her saying "but really there is no threat to you, I just want you to do your best" is completely inconsequential, because she continues to force him to do things later. It's hardly a clear message of "you're free to go if you want to." If I was in his position and knew that she literally had the power to ruin my life and that she was essentially telling me "I'm your master and you must be at my beck and call all day," I would still feel insanely uncomfortable about that dynamic, even if she said "OBEY ME, but there is no threat to you I pinky promise teehee." https://mangadex.org/chapter/fbb4c845-9b97-44d4-b870-637a8ebd6be3/11

That threat that she made was very, very real. She even made him go through the consequences, of having the police talk to him, of being close to have his life ruined, before reverting it. That's not something you can just skip over. That's not something that can be glossed over with "teehee be my slave, but you know I just want you to do your best, there is no threat, I swear! But if you disobey..." She literally made him live through it, then threatened him with it, while saying "but no really, I swear there is no threat against you, just do your best being my slave lol." Sorry, but that just doesnt cut it, not even close. Even if she acted like an angel after doing that, profusely apologizing and trying to mend things, I would still view that action alone as a dealbreaker for any romance. She doesnt even come close to doing that, but instead enslaves and humiliates him.

Ugh.

If she is as good as you say, does she ever give him a clear choice to leave? To stop being her "closet"? Or does he still have no choice? How exactly can we gloss over her false accusation threat if it is clearly still being used and if she is clearly forcing him to obey her? Even far after chapter 2, she still claims that he has "no choice and must obey her" repeatedly. That's coming from someone that he knows can ruin his life at a whim. Just think about it for a bit.

That last passage of yours seemed so defensive about women, so I'm a bit a curious, are you a woman? That would explain a few things about your assumptions, I guess, especially the dismissal of her false rape accusation threat that she is holding over him. (Not to say that all women think like this, but it's more likely that a woman would think it is no big deal I guess, from personal experience).

Either way, your staunch and unfair defense of her just makes me dislike her even more, because it reminds me that there are plenty of people that justify shit like this... Sorry, I guess I just really hate this character. Maybe it's just personal and I hate women like this, but I feel like it's not just me and likely most men would agree. She is obviously not real and larger than life, but women being manipulative predators and blackmailing with false accusations is definitely real. I know that all too well.

This chapter was just a reminder of that. How she pinched his face and told him that his "duty is just to be her closet." The dynamic is just the same as always, just more extreme. It tells me that if he would ever choose to leave and not return her advances, she would just use her cheat ability to force him to stay as her slave, if nothing more. That's how she lives, isnt it? By getting what she wants with her "redos." Again, ugh.

Thanks for the long reply. I agree with this. Just because Takamine says she won't doesn't mean she can't use the allegation. A looming threat is always there for Shirota forcing conpliance.
People hand waving that's in the past and look at how she's improving Shirota ignore the fact she is doing this for her own selfish reasons. She wants him for herself and is enforcing her will upon him even if it's because she loves him. It's controlling behavior. She wouldn't let her closet go if he wanted to.
I've mentioned it before that a better story would have been Shirota trying to break free from her control. He improves himself enough that he becomes popular that her threat is null. His classmates would believe his word. Maybe then Takamine-san has to confront her feelings and opens up to Shirota about why she originally threatened him. Or shirtoa finds love elsewhere.

Unfortunately that's not the story we got. I'm just watching to see if at any point everyone agrees that Takamine-san behavior goes to far.

 

[Avarice]

Takamine is extremely sociopathic. Either as a result of her powers or because she was born that way, she is absolutely a terrible person in her actions.

Until she clearly explains to Shirota that she loves him, something that she herself does not understand (and evidenced by the lesbian friend’s conundrum in the recent chapter), she will continue to be awful in universe. We as readers understand that she is trying to love him but doesn’t know how. That’s completely missing in-universe.

 

[SleepyDemon]

The emotional struggle session aside, I really want to see that jump animated.

Because that must've been the cleanest sequence of action of all time for her to land right in the leg holes and have them be pulled up seamlessly.

 

[Esgar]

Thanks for the long reply. I agree with this. Just because Takamine says she won't doesn't mean she can't use the allegation. A looming threat is always there for Shirota forcing conpliance.
People hand waving that's in the past and look at how she's improving Shirota ignore the fact she is doing this for her own selfish reasons. She wants him for herself and is enforcing her will upon him even if it's because she loves him. It's controlling behavior. She wouldn't let her closet go if he wanted to.
I've mentioned it before that a better story would have been Shirota trying to break free from her control. He improves himself enough that he becomes popular that her threat is null. His classmates would believe his word. Maybe then Takamine-san has to confront her feelings and opens up to Shirota about why she originally threatened him. Or shirtoa finds love elsewhere.

Unfortunately that's not the story we got. I'm just watching to see if at any point everyone agrees that Takamine-san behavior goes to far.

Right? Either that, or she pretty quickly realizes what a massive mistake she has made and tries to make amends. And then the story properly processes the aftermath, without glossing over it, until they end up on equal footing where they might enjoy this as a kink. I can understand completely lopsided and evil dynamics like these in a porn scenario like a doujin, but if you're going for a long form romance (even if it is degenerate and absurd), that kind of abuse and inequality is pretty hard to enjoy. At least, for me. Especially if it is something bdsm related, where there are plenty of rules when it comes to treating each other with respect and proper consent.

That's not what we got in this series, unfortunately. Obviously, nothing wrong if anyone enjoys it, but ya gotta acknowledge that there are good reasons for people to dislike this character.