Group Leader
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2018
- Messages
- 183
I appreciate that, but personally, at the risk of sucking off the author too much, I think this manga shows a lot of care and hard work
You must have missed the parts where I called the blackmail "awful" and "inexcusable," and where I stated "of course you're entitled to your own opinions of Takamine." You clearly have some real-life emotional investment you're bringing in here, and so your dislike of Takamine is absolutely fine, but that doesn't excuse lousy reading. You ignored my main point about the power of fiction and ignored my direct rebuttals of your statement that "the only thing Takamine has done is be terrible to the male lead" and that she "humiliates him every day" only to misrepresent my points in a way that's unjustifiable.
...Sure? I never claimed that the blackmail attempt was "haha, classic tsundere." Again, I think you're misrepresenting my reply because you didn't read. I pointed out that one of her character attributes is tsundere in the part of my reply that focused more on pointing out her positive qualities.
No, the threat she made was very, very fiction. Also, just did
. But to be serious, the threat may have been real, but I have a hard time believing it was sincere. She has a pretty good track record of not meaning it when she says such tyrannical things. I think this is important to bring up, even though it only marginally detracts from the severity of what she did. One other point I'll make to detract from how much the threat mars her as a character is that she is seen to lose all sense of judgement when frazzled. For instance when Shirota states his intention to not attend university, she loses her marbles, leaving home with her skirt riding up and without a bra. She's also severely autistic. None of this excuses her actions.The "but if you disobey..." part just doesn't really exist after chapter 2, in which she hangs it over his head and then says "But you know, there really is no threat to you. I really just want you to do your best.". You can see Shirota's thoughts, you know. He's a simp from day 1. A "closet pervert." Before chapter 2, where she states that she wont use the blackmail scenario, his thoughts reflect this lack of perceived free will. After chapter 2, where she states this feeling of being threatened no longer has such thoughts. No, Prez didn't say "you're free to go." But when I say the relationship is understood to be consensual, I mean that after this line in chapter 2, he seems to have an understanding that he won't truly suffer such severe consequences, and his thoughts reflect a willingness, and even an eagerness, to perform his duties and be close to Takamine. He gets a lot out of the relationship and is devastated by the idea that their relationship might have an end date when they graduate and go their separate ways.
In chapter 47 she "dismisses" him as her closet because she thought he didn't want to do it anymore. Lately, there's been a lot of development as to their relationship. I remember that at earlier points, she let him avoid her and so on. But no, she doesn't give him a clear choice. She lords over him. That's just how it is. If he expressed a true willingness to leave, who knows what she would do at any particular time in the manga? I think she would fight for it, but concede without further blackmail. Far after chapter 2, she does use forceful language, but it's pretty clear that there's not the threat of sexual assault allegations.
Good thing you're not and that it's just fiction. Personally, I'd also feel uncomfortable in that kind of dynamic. Definitely not for me.
Sure, my overall point was that it's not a situation where you have to be a certain gender to understand the ethics of the situation and what the potential psychological impact could be. You stated that "the only real cases where I think people might find her appealing are if you are a woman (who doesn't really get the male perspective, but likes the femdom)," and I just thought it was weird to say that there's some appreciable aspect of the male perspective that makes this situation totally different. I responded with "I think they might, on average, have more of an understanding of what it's like to be a victim of blackmail given that women are victims of blackmail all the time," to point out that there are other shared experiences than gender that can impact ability to sympathize. As for actual statistics here, I was somewhat surprised to find out that men and women have similar rates of sextortion victimization, with the rate for men actually eclipsing women during the pandemic.
No?
Your annoying and misrepresentative attack makes me want to defend her even more, tbh. Look at us, in the trenches together
based
I'd argue that there's anything in the work implying that this threat is always looming or that Shirota is motivated by it.
I mean some would argue that everything anybody does is for selfish reasons, a.k.a. egoism, but I think it's clear that she has genuine affection for him and wants to see him better himself and have more confidence for reasons one typically wouldn't label selfish. I do agree that it's controlling behavior, but this is one of the areas where the fact that it's fictional and caricature and that we can examine both sides as omniscient third parties really helps.
I disagree but there's not a lot to go on there
I mean it would be a totally different story. It does sound interesting though. I believe that Takamine opening up is inevitable, however. I also believe that there's plenty of room in this manga for Takamine to face major regret over how she opened up the relationship.
I disagree. I think she's just built different. She still has a pretty wide array of emotions.
She was going to confess in Chapter 25, and clearly understands that she loves him, she's just extremely autistic and doesn't understand a lot of aspects of human behavior. The thing with Eri was her being thrown for a loop having essentially received a confession from Shirota and finding herself going from assertive pursuer to receiver.
That's fair, though I'd argue that this manga is actually somewhat pornographic and that the dynamic is somewhat less lopsided than you put forth.
It's not that I think there aren't good reasons for people to dislike the character, but I disagree with the idea that she is objectively awful or that the only people who would like her are women or men who are into the hardest of core bdsm with the bleakest of the blackmails. I think their dynamic is somewhat endearing and root for them, taking the manga as it is.
