Happy Holidays: Server Upgrades and Rule Updates

[RonBWL]

@doomrider7 Apparently some mod slips up by claiming 3.2.7 is a new rule which makes people mad that there's now seemingly "policing scanlation". In reality 3.2.7 was simply updated to be more clear.

@Teasday Out of curiosity, if a group uploads a release with their credit page, then later on replace it with one without the credit page and then accuses MD of removing it, how would you guys deal with it?

 

[Nick86]

alternate solutions

- Hide bottom extra pages you think they can create flame

- Add to user settings the option "always show hidden content"

By default it work like hentai for unregistered users. It require some code to add this but is imo the best "compromise" you can do to avoid censorship of scanlators content.
For registered users like me will change nothing, i always have the option "show all" by default.

 

[Teasday]

@RonBWL I dunno, we could show the chapter edit logs, although of course people could accuse of faking them.

@Nick86 Yeah that second one is what I suggested, I just don't know if it'll cause an even bigger furor about how we'd be blacklisting groups or whatever.

To be clear, it would have to be group-specific rather than chapter-specific, because otherwise it'll just cause the exact same circus all over again. Not to mention it would be laughably easy to circumvent.

 

[Nick86]

@Teasday - Well, if you do this then there is no problems anymore and everyone is happy because at least we have the personal OPTION to see or not such extra pages.

Will be very appreciated and best possibile outcome to this matter.

 

[Plykiya]

@Nick86 Saying everyone is happy is a bit of an overstatement. There'll always be people who will be disgusted by us for allowing rapeman to continue using the site, and there'll be people disgusted with us if we do the opposite.

 

[Ovdose]

@Hounder

You know, I wonder when these guys will realize that if the site operators.mods were anywhere close to as bad as they are trying to portray them, then this conversation would have been locked down at least a day ago, or sooner?

I think at this point some people might actually be trying to get them to lock this thread just to prove their point. Both sides have expressed their opinions and arguing about them likely won't make the other side change their position on the issue.

@doomrider7
Yeah, the problem this time is that rules are at the same time being made a little bit stricter and a little bit more vague. I've skipped parts of this thread but that's the impression I got from the half a dozen pages I've read.

 

[Teasday]

_{@Ovdose posted:}

Yeah, the problem this time is that rules are at the same time being stricter and more vague.

That's actually not true. The rule used to be less specific. Which, I suppose, makes it stricter by definition.

 

[Nick86]

@Plykiya - Yes, is normal, please everyone is impossible, is a lost battle, but this is the best "compromise" i think can be good for everyone because you at least give us full control over content displayed, not only blocking groups but also blocking extra pages and memes.

There will always be some people who will wine even if you add all this, retards still are retards no matter what, but they will be surely a true minority, a very small fraction, they can go elsewhere or if they derail comments into a flame war you can easily moderate them.

 

[dorks76]

i just want to say thank you for providing this news.

and after reading back pages, i will give my thanks again for taking action to rapeman scan. thank you so much for making this place clean. i want to read manga, not propaganda. love you guys at the teams and mods (no homo)

 

[RonBWL]

@Nick86 There's some problems with that I can see: 1. Trolls will either try to place the page in the middle of the chapter or at the start, and 2: "embed" it into one of the pages randomly (thus if you hide it, you lose content of the page itself).

There's no automated solution for both 1 and 2, so readers will ultimately be forced to use "show all" option if they don't want to risk missing contents. The best I can think of is to flag such chapters for removal due to troll nature, but then people'll whine and bitch about "policing content" so that wouldn't work either.

Alternately, MD could implement a new upload button called "Credit Page upload" that accepts only IMG files, which they can then attach to top or bottom of the chapter. However, trolls can simply ignore it and smuggle the credit page into the zip archive instead. For this to work MD would have to revise the entire rule to ban packing release with the credit page, and I don't think people would welcome that since having to upload twice (zip + credit image) will be too much of a trouble. Having the option to auto-embed group's credit page (one-time upload) may not work either since groups will often make credit page relevant to the series they're scanlating and the credits will change like 100 times per day.

 

[Nick86]

@RonBWL - Indeed, but they can be easily managed, if they use this trick to bypass the rule then the staff can ban the scanlator group as a whole, easy and simple.

The defaul option of hidden pages is by default OFF, like for hentai, so random users or even registered users that do not want to see such added pages can easily leave the option to OFF.

The user have the full control over what they can see or not.

Said that there is always need a moderator that manually can clean toxic comments, is valid in every community, not only manga and anime, you can't prevent such people to post toxic threads or create flames unless you remove the comment section completely and even with the most strictly rules, BUT you should never censor content because these people exist in the first place, or they simply will win and force their agenda over everyone else.

OPTIONS and customizations are the only solutions + of course manual moderation.

 

[Aqqalu]

It's a sad world if people can't see manga for what it is. And think that the credit page is anything other than the groups word that should never have been on the site. TLnotes are a thing and good but anything other thing is fucking annoying.

Edit: And using the credit page as a platform to say anything other than who was on the manga chapter is really cutting into the idea that manga and anime is anything other than a pasttime most people like to spend time on

 

[bk3k]

@Renko

Rapeman said he's not going to post anything here anymore because of this!

Then @Rapeman is a snowflake with a persecution complex. No helping that. So his credit pages might have the follow the same standards as every commentor? THE POOR THING!

This feels like censorship to me!

It isn't. He can post whatever "offensive" view as long as it is remotely on topic for the manga chapter. Or on the forums anytime. So can you. Since that leaves no topic you can't discuss, you clearly aren't censored.

@definitionofinsanity

H-H-HOW DARE YOU, GOOD SIR, BRING IN SUCH F-F-FILTH TO MY MANGA!

Clearly you don't understand. The "offensive" talk is allowed IF IT IS REMOTELY ON TOPIC.
Also it is allowed on the forums where you make whatever topic you want.
/not a MD staff member, but I can fucking read and that makes one of us.

@The_Fapper

And then you can sit in your safe space all by yourselves.

It isn't anything resembling a safe space. "Contentious content" is allowed by those rules if it is remotely on topic.

There are too many to reply to beyond this, so allow me to post examples for all the slow people who don't understand something so simple -
Battle manga in the middle of some fight which doesn't involve food etc - Vegan screeching not allowed.
Cooking manga on a chapter where some legendary meat is being used - Vegan screeching allowed - even if it annoys the hell out of me, it is on topic thus fair game.

Yet another manga about other worlds and chapter is generic Adventurers Guild explanation - Not the time for me to talk about how great abortion is.
Chapter about some girl getting pregnant while still in high school - Time for me to talk about how great abortion is and offend pro-life snowflakes.

Ranting about transgender people in a chapter with a transgender character - go for it.
Ranting about transgender people after watching Goku power up yet again - Not on topic dumbass...

Want to rant about whatever/whenever - they've provided you forums to be your soapbox. Not only that, but YOU CAN MAKE YOUR OWN MANGA and make it as offensive as you like about whatever topics you like. Then you can post it and MD will host it. So tell me again where the mean MD staff touched you?

 

[sterven]

So are we just going to ignore the old poll @Pauan brought up? Cause a lot of people are going on about how
a vast majority of people upvoted it on reddit but yet here's one done on MD and the results speak for themselves.

 

[BestBoy]

@sterven That poll was about user conduct. Not scanlator conduct/credit pages. Doesn't apply. Regardless, this was after removing the NZ credit page so the precedent for removing egregious credit pages was already set making the poll results supportive of that action. Not to mention it's 7 months old at this point. The community is way bigger now.

 

[sterven]

@BestBoy
You read the title of the thread? It says "clarification on rules and moderation" nowhere does it state it's about "user conduct".
And even if it is a seven month old poll it's still a good representation of what the people think in regards to stricter rules. If
the community is way bigger now then let's just make a new one here and see how it goes.

Edit: I added a bit more after I posted lol sorry about that.

 

[BestBoy]

@sterven Sure it does. That was the poll question.

Poll Question: Do you think MangaDex should take a firmer stance on moderating user conduct?

edit: In regards to your edit, no it's not a good representation because the poll isn't about stricter rules in general. It's specifically about rules regarding user conduct and even if it were, as I explained above, the community was supportive of the removal of the NZ post according to the poll. In addition, these rules aren't stricter. They're just more explicitly written.

 

[sterven]

@BestBoy
Ah you got me there. Even so the popular opinion was not in support of it then and I believe that it isn't so now.

 

[BestBoy]

@ sterven addressed your edit in one of my own above.


PS Gonna go see a star war now.

 

[sterven]

@BestBoy

They're just more explicitly written.

I don't want to sound like i'm nitpicking your argument but isn't that exactly what clarification of the rules means?

PS Gonna go see a star war now.

Ughh good luck hope you don't come out of it as pissed off as I was.