Happy Holidays: Server Upgrades and Rule Updates

[Pauan]

@Teasday Please do not strawman my arguments. That is very unkind of you.

I am not against moderation (I made that *very* clear in my post). I very clearly said that I am in *favor* of having section 5.1 apply to credit pages.

What I am against is having a separate standard for credit pages and comments (why should the standards be any different?), and also the *extremely* vague "might be construed as causing offense" rule. I made that clear in my post.

 

[Kiriha]

Learn Japanese and all you lazy bum wouldn't feel the need to lick rapeman's ass or any scanlators that try to use "I'll pull out of MD if you don't agree with me" card.

 

[Raxy4life]

Reminder it's perfectly fine to break rule 3.2.7 as long as it aligns with the Mangadex's political views.

https://mangadex.org/chapter/763185/35

https://mangadex.org/chapter/767468/43

 

[Plykiya]

@Raxy4life No, it isn't fine. We don't apply our rules retroactively. Same goes for Rapeman.

 

[Teasday]

@Pauan I wasn't strawmanning. You said you're aware of our position and perspective, so I replied as such.

"Now there are things you can say in the comments that you cannot say in credit pages" is not exactly true. Creating an equal standard for credits pages and comments was exactly what I suggested when we were discussing the rules change because it used to be utterly missing and heavily leaning in favor of allowing pretty much anything in the credits pages - in other words, I suggested for the credits pages to be treated as if they were comments on forums and subject to the exact same standards when it comes to handing out bans for example - but some members of the staff wanted to keep the standard for credits pages looser than for comments, because they're technically separate as community scanlations vs. MangaDex comments.

What has fundamentally changed is that "political content, agendas, propaganda, commentary, race-baiting or content that could be construed as offensive" will no longer be considered "on-topic" for credits pages and such is subject to removal, because it's a pain the ass to deal with. The comment standards themselves have not changed in any way.

@Raxy4life You're sorely mistaken if you think leftist idpol screed aligns with "Mangadex's political views"

 

[DesertStorm]

@Rapeman is a good chap!

 

[Holo]

@Raxy4life Political views of staff is not representative of MangaDex in general. In fact, staff have a range of views ranging from center-left to center-right.

 

[usagiaddict]

So, reading through few threads I've noticed, you want to ban one uploader, specifically. And now you make new rule, specifically, to ban this user. And everything during Christmas, so noone will bother to notice this when everything is over.

It's disgusting, it's even more pathetic.
I can tell you think you have a heart in right place, so why does it seems and feel you are a part of agenda itself?

User have problem - user can block, that was an idea. Now some power-hungry mods have a problem - mods create new rules. Problem was political of nature, they claim, so they invent a soluction of political nature, just ban everything they don't like. Banning comments, not enough. Banning groups, so ok, because credit page encourages behaviour my agenda is against.

And it's during Christmas, how fitting.

 

[Teasday]

_{@usagiaddict posted:}

And now you make new rule, specifically, to ban this user.

Nobody is going to get banned, and if this change were because of Rapeman specifically, we would've done it a long time ago

 

[Lymus]

@Raxy4life those would be subject to the new rules too.

 

[Pauan]

@Teasday Yes you did strawman. You said this: "The only way for us to not have to moderate anything is to remove comments."

Contrary to what you implied, I never once suggested or implied that MangaDex should "not moderate anything".

As for the discrepancy between comments and credits, the rules state that you may not discuss these things in the credit page:

* Political content.

* Agendas.

* Propaganda.

* Commentary.

* Content that could be construed as offensive.

However, all of those things are allowed in comments (assuming they do not violate section 5). I see no reason why there needs to be additional restrictions on credit pages, when section 5 is already enough.

And if these additional restrictions *are* necessary, then they should apply to comments as well. It is extremely bizarre to have different standards for credits and comments.

Also, if some staff members wanted looser restrictions on credit pages, then why are the restrictions *harsher* for credit pages?

 

[usagiaddict]

And now you make new rule, specifically, to ban this user.

Nobody is going to get banned, and if this change were because of Rapeman specifically, we would've done it a long time ago

And, for some reason, for some mysterious purpose openly cited by other mods, new rule is born.

(...) or content that could be construed as offensive

This is exatly what every single "politically correct" site, especially sillicon valley one, is doing to basically do what they like. It's called "wildcart", or "catch-all" and this is main reason why shitty acts and laws not going live - because they very nature is shouting: exploitable. Just stop. You're making yourself a laughingstock.

 

[Teasday]

_{@Pauan posted:}

I see no reason why there needs to be additional restrictions on credit pages, when section 5 is already enough.

And if these additional restrictions *are* necessary, then they should apply to comments as well.

Also, if some staff members wanted looser restrictions on credit pages, then why are the restrictions *harsher* for credit pages?

They're not additional, they do apply to general comments. If you start banging on about the Muslims unprompted in a random chapter thread, you can expect getting moderated by having your post hidden or deleted. The same logic is now being applied to the chapters themselves, when that wasn't the case previously.

The restrictions are now harsher because of the amount of work the credits pages generate, as has been said a few times now. They generate more work because of the huge visibility compared to comments. The current restrictions are not harsher than for comments generally.

(edit: Oh, and if you're wondering why there was disagreement about it, it was because of the danger of slippery slopes and general reluctance to do anything that would be construed as policing scanlation. It was eventually more or less agreed that the tradeoff was necessary and wouldn't cause enough of an impact to cause concern.)

Simple test: Is the thread I'm going to make so political that it would be off-topic anywhere except the general subforums? If yes, post it in the general subforums. The same now applies to credits pages.

 

[Teasday]

@usagiaddict That's not a new rule, it's been there for months. We're not planning on changing its interpretation compared to thus far.

 

[Plykiya]

@usagiaddict We've only used the "content that could be construed as offensive" part of the rule a single time, to moderate his credits page where Rapeman glorifies the New Zealand mosque shooting which was a whole 9 months ago. We haven't used it a single time since then. If you think that's way too low of a bar, I'm under the impression the only level of moderation you'd be happy with is none at all for the whole site, lol.

 

[The_Fapper]

I don't know about him, but yes, i'd prefer no moderation.
If your comment section is "toxic" then have you considered that maybe people just want to be toxic?
Nobody's going to die because you let them shitpost in a comment section. Some people won't like it, some people will.

Don't try to tell me that on a site which also hosts straight up porn that we're not adults who can decide for ourselves whether we want to read something or not.
Also, spouting off about your morals is real rich coming from people hosting an illegal manga sharing website.

 

[Holo]

If people want to be toxic, that's fine, they can go and be toxic on 4chan or reddit.

Our site, like any other private entity, has rules. If people don't want to follow the rules, they can go elsewhere.

 

[MisakaxMisaka]

The more I read this and the more I read the comments why can't ya just remove the credit page instead of the entire chapter?

Also I do kinda wish you would of changed the rules to include that troll sssss group

 

[Plykiya]

@MisakaxMisaka That is what the rule does. We would remove the extra page with the political content, not the chapter itself.

 

[Holo]

@MisakaxMisaka We would only remove the credit page, not the entire chapter.