Happy Holidays: Server Upgrades and Rule Updates

[Varrel]

>communist spaghetti flinging about Nazi border security
>wtf haha just ignore it you secret racist

>rapeman edgy joke
>I sure am glad that I, a moral busybody, have prevented people from seeing this content that might hurt their feelings, if you don't like this you should build your own internet btw

???

 

[definitionofinsanity]

[Reads loli rape incest guro doujin]
[Contains one single, solitary last page with spicy political memes]
"H-H-HOW DARE YOU, GOOD SIR, BRING IN SUCH F-F-FILTH TO MY MANGA!"

...How hard is it to, I dunno, not read it? I mean we have manga/doujins on this site where if you took some pages and put them into the end card they could violate this rule. So it seems rather hypocritical and a trip down Bato Lane's shittier neighborhoods that will only lead to further problems. And mark my words when this is first implemented and it causes a shitstorm and some scanlators, perhaps rightfully, throw a shitfit and leave... Well, first, I'm going to link to this comment and get my obligatory "Told ya" point, but I'm also not going to be defending Mangadex like I was when the Patreonbux Brigade threw a hissyfit over not getting enough money because Mangadex... reasons... If you play stupid games, you will only win stupid prizes. I'd advise heavily against this.

And to think it could all just be avoided by not reading the fucking end card. To think a scanlator called "RAPEMAN" would have, scandalously, potentially offensive content to some fragile individuals. Why I never... I can't physically hold all my pearls that need clutching.

Now that I'm done you can all go back to reading your guro rape ryona eromanga instead of being triggered by spicy meme end cards.

 

[deleteTF]

@olsloanylonesome
I Went to read a series TL by Rapeman, i started seeing in the credits page, extremely distasteful comments of political, religious and racist nature, but whatever, scanlator are allowed to post anything on the credits page, and i wasn't offended by it.

But then i went to the comments on one chapter that didn't have any of the controversial topics stated above, but the credits did, and what i saw was an absolute shitstorm of people not discussing the chapter (which is what the comments are for) but instead using it for discussing what Rapeman put in the credits. And that happened to every chapter he posted of the series.

So the problem isn't that he has opnions, it's that he using this on the credits page, which makes the whole comments go Off-topic, so the mods made a sensible decision of putting a rule that prohibit this. He isn't banned, and he still can discuss his opnions on the general forums, if he doesn't want to, then yeah, it's his problem.

 

[definitionofinsanity]

@Varrel

>I sure am glad that I, a moral busybody, have prevented people from seeing this content that might hurt their feelings, if you don't like this you should build your own internet btw

Spoiler

 

[Cianna]

hi @back to you
words easier to type, srry,

basically, idk y it difficult, esp considering only certain people r gonna skip and read everything all the way to the back without going into context and the 5-6 some pages in between, if you r i hope u had fun or w/e since u must be bored, regardless, as admins, they literally can do w/e they want, you actually cannot stop them, lol, who would ve known idk how to spell this concept out but w/e im half asleep andabsolutely none of anothing of what im still typing atm, ??! something however, even if they r admin and can do what the site has code for that they can do, they r tryna be transparent, and thus, here we has another eExhibit &(#@!&?><{]\} of y most people and esp organization, specifically bigger companies, refuse to bother with concepts like transparency and communication(?actually pr huh?qq) or no one care anomore, b/c transparency etc not only gives some wierd hope or maybe expects- ; something else and more importantly make it very easy for grudge hold individuals or god forbid 'competitors' to stir te toxic joke that is msg boards and the like, frequented by sensitive people that tend to react strongly, strange others that as a general rule try to avoid, or every1 else, that is just every1 else, i give up.

//

 

[Holo]

@GGpX

You highlight the problem of the rules not being exact - but I must point out that if the rules were exact, then anyone looking to circumvent them would know exactly what to do. The rules are written so that there is wriggle room, in case mods have to taken action.

Imagine a situation where the rules were exact, and even though someone was intentionally breaking the spirit of the rules, even if they were not breaking the letter of the rules, mods would not be able to act.

To answer your question on our definition of "offensive", it's a pretty high bar to reach. Since the addition of that clause 9 months ago, we have only ever used it once, to remove a credit page glorifying the NZ shootings.

People seem to be fearmongering that these rules would mean the mods are going to go crazy and delete any comment/credit page that is slightly offensive. This isn't going to happen, and how we have approached moderation in the past 2 years should be an indication of this.

Also, people banging on about censorship: it's not like we're shutting down political discussions, we're just directing them to an appropriate place (the general forums, not the chapter comments).

To the vast majority of you who support the rule changes, thanks! And to those who still have questions/complaints - I'm sure you'll come round fairly soon, once you see that nothing is going to change fundamentally with how we approach moderation.

 

[The_Fapper]

"If people want to be toxic, that's fine, they can go and be toxic on 4chan or reddit.
If people don't want to follow the rules, they can go elsewhere."

Don't worry, they will.
And then you can sit in your safe space all by yourselves.

 

[youdontknowwho]

Can I ask the moderation team to be as transparent as you have been and let us know when and where you have to enforce the rule? Like making thread once in a while to announce which chapter credit page is removed (if any). This way you can show that you apply the rule in a uniform and fair manner, and the way you approach moderation still stays the same.

 

[Zephyrus]

@The_Fapper
All politics are banned, not just the ones you identify with.

This has nothing to do with safe spaces and everything to do with content being in their appropriate places. Both conservative and liberal politics belong in one place: the general forum, not credit pages. People who read manga to escape that stuff shouldn't have to deal with it in credit pages or off-topic rants in chapter comments.

 

[kn1000a]

I have always been ok with MD's rules and guidelines, and the rule banning scanlated chapters before official release is a great change. However, I cannot agree to the second rule. It simply let the mods have too much power to decide what is political and what is not. As seen in https://mangadex.org/thread/198238/1/#post_1443547, some issues can be political to some, does that mean they will also be removed? If we don't have this rule, then it is up to the readers to decide what is offensive and avoid it. Now, it feels like MD mods will police the content they think is wrong.

This is technically censorship. Or at least a rule that gives room to it.

 

[bambou1991]

Remember everybody, this Christmas season, to stay [BLAND]!
_{Or the manga truth ministry will decide you had too much to think between your loli incest stories}

 

[Holo]

@youdontknowwho

Yes, there will be transparency.

 

[Plykiya]

@kn1000a
>Too much power to decide what is political
If saying we're banning what we think politic content/agenda/etc etc from being inserted into chapters that are otherwise devoid of it is leaving too much power for us to decide what's political, you might as well say we don't know what counts as racism, sexual discrimination, religious discrimination, or as a personal attack in our forum rules so we shouldn't have those either lol. It's just silly

>Police content we think is wrong
This isn't about policing content that's "wrong". Right or wrong, all inserted political content causes a shit storm in the comment section that derails it entirely from the actual discussion of the chapter's content which is what chapter comments should be for. It's a shit ton of work to moderate it and it's killing our mod's motivation. If people wanna discuss it, we'd rather they do it in the general forums

 

[Nick86]

Happy holidays.

About this point:

3.2.7 Adding extra page(s) to chapters for the purpose of crediting scanlators or translation notes is generally OK. Extra pages which contain extraneous political content, agendas, propaganda, commentary, race-baiting or content that could be construed as offensive may be removed by staff. Extra pages are also subject to the same standards as listed out in section 5.1.

I disagree, everyone have the rights to express their agenda in their own works, like people have the right to read or not, block or not, what another user say, is freedom of speech and should be preserved even if there are things that can offend someone (because in the end you aren't forced to follow a certain translator or read such extra pages).

Removing extra pages for everyone is, imo, no good and is blatant censorship.

I can agree to remove content if the translation is completely fake and created only for trolling.

Rethink about enforcing this rule, and remember that nobody is forced to read what other people write, there are enought tools on mangadex to bypass and remove what people don't want to see.

PS: I'm surprised that the staff of MD propose such ruleset, they are always against these things.

Thanks.

 

[Plykiya]

@Nick86 I did say in the announcement post we didn't like the rule or what the rule implicated (policing scanlation). We agree with everything people are saying about freedom of speech and how if you don't like it you should just block it. Pretty much what our standard procedure was. But it still doesn't stop 150+ long cesspool comment pits from happening when politics gets involved, and it creates way too much work for the mods. It's not like we get paid to do this, and we don't hire mods often, so keeping their morale even a little bit stable would be nice so that they don't quit and the site deteriorates more than it needs to. This is just a move to make that happen. Nothing else really causes any problems on the site, just politics, so not like it's gonna go further than this

 

[BestBoy]

The basic summary is, if Rapeman and Koolio want to share their political thoughts and memes, they must do it in the general forum and not inside a manga chapter upload.

Don't really see what's so controversial about this.

 

[Nick86]

@Plykiya - Well, you are right on this, if you remember 2 years ago when you opened the comment section i warned you guys that such things will be unavoidable in the long run, because it attract also unwanted people like trolls, haters, and political propaganda.

Too late to fix this as i can see, but ban the troublesome peopleis the way to go and not removing content from scanlators works, do not please some retards that wine or because someone is offended, it is certainly the easy way to fix the issue but is never the correct one because you restrict the freedom of the creators.

This is what i think, you guys can do of course whatever you want, and indeed you know better than me what to do.

@BestBoy

The basic summary is, if Rapeman and Koolio want to share their political thoughts and memes, they must do it in the general forum and not inside a manga chapter upload.

Don't really see what's so controversial about this.

Absolutely agree with you, in this specific case if someone start to complain or trolling, just ban these people, not censor the scanlator work.
People complain even if they have the tools to block the scans, so this is not the issue, the issue is that there are some people who want didctate what everyone should or not see, they don't want to leave choices to people (block or not), they think they are the only one who are in the right. This is so wrong and more you please such people the more they ask content to be removed, this is how censorship work.

I remember when some people asked to remove hentai and lolis even if they are already hidden, as you can see do not matter how much tools you give to them, they want have control over what people read, what the other people like and do. They are the most dangerous people and they should be eradicated because they cause chaos, split communities and bring degradation and toxicity. Such behavior should never exist here.

 

[BestBoy]

@Nick86 Ya, I completely disagree with you. Users shouldn't be banned for taking umbrage with a translator for inserting off topic content into a manga. Nor should they be banned for questioning whether certain content is positive for the long term health of the community.

 

[Exile]

People seem to be fearmongering that these rules would mean the mods are going to go crazy and delete any comment/credit page that is slightly offensive. This isn't going to happen, and how we have approached moderation in the past 2 years should be an indication of this.

Yes, because clearly that didnt happened before.
I had my way to deal with that, ignore group ... that is how it should be handled and not some moderator saying what I should be seeing and this is from someone that didnt liked that particular stunt, I am entirely against this because its a slippy rope and no "assurances" is going to change that, all that needs is some people getting into positions of powers and we know what will happen because it what happened.

 

[Nick86]

@BestBoy - Sorry to read you disagree, but if the solution is restricting or censor scanlators works i prefer to target the people who try to ban such opinions.
As i explained above, they have already plenty of tools to block certain content if they really want, but their purpose is not this, is preventing everyone else to read such content, even for people who don't care or want to read such extra pages.
So i'm sorry to repeat this, but i think that such people should be epurated because this behavious don't belong to a website that support freedom of speech.