Happy Holidays: Server Upgrades and Rule Updates

[TimeVolt]

Merry Christmas, and thank you for making rule 3.2.7, I sometimes see extra pages with political content or other things not relating to the chapter or group of scanslators scanslating it and it always pains me to see the chapter comments locked because of it, or seeing it filled up with comments discussing it or generally not discussing the actual chapter itself.

 

[Allexio]

oh my god wtf is that VScode ticket....
I can't believe this got accepted... how ridiculous.

 

[BlackGeneral]

Mhe, I just saw Rapeman's credit pages and I think they are really funny and pretty accurate.
I would say that the real rule breakers are the ones complaining about the credit page instead of talking about the chapter...
Idk, maybe you should make a poll before passing rules like that… just to know what the real majority think.
Whatever, I don't want to waste any more time talking about stuff like that.

 

[Aryrha]

That vscode ticket is great. You always get too much tsun with vscode and it really needs more dere.

 

[Allexio]

@blackgeneral maybe some are all right but some are clearly not...
like the one time he added a credit page where he was referring to the dude that had just went on a killing spree in new zealand with some hate speech added in... a day (or like one or two) after the massacre...
I'm sorry that's not okay.

 

[Yatsuki]

@BlackGeneral You think making fun of a terrorist incident, specially referring to the gunman's carplate as well, where many people were killed is... funny and accurate.... What a horrible person.

Edit: This is why I can't stand rapeman's supporters. I thought them referring to those things as "it's just black jokes, chill" is bad enough, but apparently some people enjoy that kind of content and think it's funny. Imagine your loved ones were killed in a hate crime, and people make fun of that, I wonder if you'd still think it's funny...

 

[kuma]

"thos damn snowflakes, how easily they got triggered"

"why you censorship me, REEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

i just found them funny. rapeman has throw tantrum lot of times in the past. not gonna surprised he will get triggered again. kek.

 

[Wendy]

Happy holidays merry Christmas and a happy new year🎅🏻🎄🕸

 

[Pauan]

Rule 2.6 sounds completely fair and reasonable to me.

However, rule 3.2.7 seems overly broad. I'm perfectly happy for the credit pages to follow the rules of section 5.1 (I believe that 5.1 should be applied uniformly everywhere), but 3.2.7 seems to go *far* beyond that. Now there are things you can say in the comments that you cannot say in credit pages. That seems... very odd. Why not just apply section 5.1 to the credit pages? There's no need to go further than that.

In addition, the rule "content that could be construed as offensive" is incredibly vague to the point of being useless. You might as well just say, "we can remove whatever we want, at any time, for any reason, with no justification". Literally everything can be construed as offensive.

You can easily find billions of religious people that find ecchi manga to be extremely offensive. Over 90+% of the manga on MangaDex are offensive to somebody. If you look at the world as a whole, there are more people who find MangaDex offensive than there are people who don't find MangaDex offensive.

Batoto used to ban hentai manga because of offensiveness/moral reasons. But they did not apply the rules fairly: some mildly ecchi manga got banned, whereas other extremely lewd manga were allowed to stay. That is what happens when you have a vague subjective rule.

Offensiveness is a fundamentally subjective thing. I don't think we should be policing based on such a vague concept. I think rules need to be *clear* and *concrete*, so that everybody understands them. Otherwise, what's the point of rules? You might as well just say "it's the moderator's judgement, deal with it".

Unfortunately, if MangaDex continues such a path, having arbitrary double standards and vague subjective rules, I will have to withdraw my support. I have seen in the past how such rules have destroyed other communities.

 

[Plykiya]

@Pauan The rules are open to interpretation intentionally to deter people who would otherwise push the boundaries as much as they can just because they can.

We're the ones most aware of the slippery slope, hence why we try to avoid concrete statements as much as possible. We make concrete example, they push it, we make more to cover it, they push it again, and so on. Having it open this way we can just cover what it needs to without need for such a thing. We spend hours upon hours discussing how to avoid going down the slippery slope. We've only enforced the offensiveness part of the rule once, lol

 

[Holo]

@Pauan

We've actually only used the offensive bit once, and that was to remove rapeman's glorification of the NZ shooting. In fact, that clause was added as a result of that. It shows you that it's quite a high bar to reach. Ultimately we believe that we shouldn't police scanlation unless in exceptional circumstances.

 

[Pauan]

@Plykiya I have followed the entire drama since all the way back with Hatigarm (and Rapeman as well). The vast majority (65.3%) of MangaDex readers do not want harsher rules.

I am aware of your position and perspective, but I vehemently and fundamentally disagree with it, both because of my principles and also personal experience with other communities.

I made my position very clear. In the past, I have given $200 to MangaDex, but because of your response, I have now withdrawn my support, as required by my own moral convictions.

 

[Jumballi]

I understand that credit pages are something that have existed in manga scanlation for the decade that I've followed it. However with the power that mangadex has now, have you considered allowing the option for MD to make a template for groups to create a credit page/image every time a manga goes up.

Instead of opening up photoshop everytime you have a new chapter, you'll have posted a group banner once, and then have a small survey which asks for the usernames of the team involved. Obviously forcing this as the only option would create more drama, but giving the option as one of many, to groups to make a one time template that MD does the work for them server side would cause a shift in mentality about the relevant content at the end of a chapter. Also this would be with the clearance that scanlators could leave their "explanation" pages in at the end for niche cultural context.

I am personally of the belief that the second rule's stance is necessary for the continuation of a manga focuses site. I don't believe that defining it as a rule should have been the move. Instead announce that you plan to enforce 5.1 more strictly and use precedence as your guiding hammer.

As for the first rule, I believe that as someone who doesn't pay for the product, I shouldn't be receiving a service that is more efficient than that of those who pay, especially knowing in some cases it to be fraudulent.

For how this will play out, let your numbers show that you are correct in the path that you have chosen.

edit: updated language for clarity.

 

[Jpwong]

While I don't really see an issue with the second rule, it's ultimately going to come down to how high the bar is. Realistically speaking, if your credits page is generating a sizable multi-page chunk of the discussion for a particular chapter of manga, it probably wasn't the most appropriate choice. Lets face it, extra pages started out as a way to have a group credit page, or to provide clarification on translation choices or ancillary information regarding things in the chapter, not as a way to provoke commentary on things way beyond the scope of what the manga is presenting.

 

[Cybernatus]

Thank you for these welcomed rules.

I've come to enjoy reading mangas translated by the so called r*peman multiple times until reaching its famous credits pages which ruined all the fun I had.

We might speak about free spech here, but please NOT IN A MANGA WHERE THE AUTHOR ISN'T EVEN INVOLVED. That's just stupid non-sense! Keep it for your own debate spaces.

 

[Yatsuki]

My last post regarding the whole rapeman fiasco because I also don't want to repeat the same point too many times.

If you think he did nothing wrong, and there was absolutely no harm, nothing offensive at all with the way he made fun of a real shooting/terrorist incident, where many people were killed. And not just once but several times. And/or in fact, you think the "snowflakes" triggered too easy, need to loosen up and accept that kind of "humour", you are the one who need to reconsider your moral. Please, just imagine if it was your friends, loved ones, or even someone you know happened to be in the same incident, and someone made fun of it, praising their murderer, would you still be laughing and told others to take it easy?

If you disagree with me, think what I've said is stupid, or whatever, and would rather continue to ride the rapeman "joke" train, just block me.





To the mods, thank you for all the hard work. Happy Holidays ^^
Cheers.

 

[FranFran]

Happy holidays y'all!

 

[usagiaddict]

3.2.7 Adding extra page(s) to chapters for the purpose of crediting scanlators or translation notes is generally OK. Extra pages which contain extraneous political content, agendas, propaganda, commentary, race-baiting or content that could be construed as offensive may be removed by staff. Extra pages are also subject to the same standards as listed out in section 5.1.

Hello, we Twitter now?

 

[CoolOtamegane]

Well, My scanslate endpage contains
5% crediting scanlators
5% crediting officials mangaka
10% or translation notes
80% Dry and tasteless meme jokes
.
So, what's the verdict ??

Edit : Happy Holiday guys,

 

[Teasday]

_{@Pauan posted:}

I am aware of your position and perspective, but I vehemently and fundamentally disagree with it, both because of my principles and also personal experience with other communities.

I'm sorry, but we have a website to run here, and we'd prefer it not be run to the ground and for people not to feel entitled to make our work miserable while we're trying to balance both a community that wants to keep uploading here as well as a community that wants to keep coming here to read.

The only way for us to not have to moderate anything is to remove comments.