Hatsukoi Zombie

[helpfulcomrade]

At this point I think it's pretty clear that the only good end is for Tarou and Eve to wind up together - whether she stays a figment of his psyche or somehow manages to become a real girl. Anyone who tries to get in the way of that is a selfish monster that only claims to do it for Tarou's own good so they can make themselves feel better about it. Just leave the fucking guy alone and let him love who he loves. If other, 'real' girls can't measure up to Eve in competing for Tarou's affections, then that's their problem, not Tarou's. Selfish, self-righteous cunts, the lot of them. If the author turns this into an anti-waifu propaganda piece in the end to make a statement on how men need to lower their standards and get themselves into committed relationships for their own good, then they're going to have a lot of angry ex-fans.

 

[TwilightFaze]

@1986ctcel: Oh, I don't disagree it's a bit messed up, but it's a lot more preferable to having her dead. And the sad truth is she IS, as you put it, "just some glitchy magical chatbot who was never a "real" person despite everything that's happened." It definitely sucks for Eve, but ghosts very rarely get a happy ending. Maybe Hatsukoi Zombie will break that trend, but with everything set out so far, it's very unlikely. I think even Eve knows things can't stay that way and is looking for someplace to inhabit once the time for Tarou to move on comes.

@helpfulcomrade: "If other, 'real' girls can't measure up to Eve in competing for Tarou's affections, then that's their problem, not Tarou's"
That's the same kind of thinking as "Well if 3D girls can't measure up to my 2D women, that's not my problem, it's theirs." Eve was designed to be Tarou's "perfect woman" no less than designing the "perfect girl" in a Dating Sim game. Call it escaping reality, a mental issue, or whatever you want. Either way, this is a bad mindset to be in no matter who you are. Even Tarou in the beginning knew this was bad, but fell into his own trap. But the sad thing is Tarou knows it's futile, but is trying to prolong it as long as he can. The girls have accepted reality, but Tarou wishes to stay in his delusion. But the problem with a delusion is it makes you blind to everything else around you.

 

[helpfulcomrade]

@TwilightFaze Thank you for proving my point.

 

[TwilightFaze]

@helpfulcomrade: What was your point? "Let Tarou live in a fantasy world, isolating himself from his friends and family?"

 

[helpfulcomrade]

@TwilightFaze: If living in a fantasy world is what makes him happy, and it doesn't harm anyone else in the process, then yeah. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that Tarou is isolating himself from his friends and family - if anything, ever since Eve came into his life, he's gotten more friends and more involved with them and his family. The only people who would be inconvenienced with Tarou and Eve staying together are the ones who want Tarou for themselves, in whose case Eve is just an obstacle and not a person or a source of happiness and comfort for Tarou. Everyone else is just trying to force their own selfish ideals & feelings onto Tarou. If you disagree with this, then please provide an argument explaining how Tarou being with Eve is a bad thing, while keeping Tarou's feelings in mind.

 

[TwilightFaze]

@helpfulcomrade: True, but that's under the premise that it's not harming anyone. It is. It harms Ririsu because it's her image and she, too, loves Tarou. It harms Ebino because she also fell in love with him and feels guilt because she caused him to see FLZs, not just Eve, in the first place. It harms Tarou because, putting Eve aside, he still doesn't like seeing the FLZs even now. He's used to it, but he still doesn't care to see them. Your view which is focused on Eve is actually a reasonable and understandable one, but you forget the bigger picture about FLZs as a whole.

"If you disagree with this, then please provide an argument explaining how Tarou being with Eve is a bad thing, while keeping Tarou's feelings in mind."
I'll endeavor to do my best. You've been showing how Eve is more like a love rival (and very well, I might add. Again Kudos!), but you still haven't actually addressed Eve's and Tarou's views. Eve knows she's a FLZ and her love for Tarou is not a natural one, but wants to keep it going as long as possible. But if you've noticed her fixation on broken-hearted FLZs disappearing into objects of personal value, it's clear Eve is also looking for something to prepare herself. Let's move on to Tarou. Yes, he loves her, but by his own admission (ergo his own feelings, as per your request), he knows this is not something right and that he's effectively just in love with a delusion. He knows it needs to end at some point, but is digging in his heels to do so. He's lighting the candle at both ends, if you will, which is bad for ANYBODY. To compare it, it's like an alcoholic (or in Tarou's case an Eve-holic) trying to quit but having a bad time of it.

 

[helpfulcomrade]

@TwilightFaze: "It harms Ririsu because it's her image-" Hence Tarou working to figure out a way for her to stop being able to see them. "-and she, too, loves Tarou." She's infatuated with Tarou, at best. None of her actions thus far have hinted at anything more than that, and she's thrown away her chance and right to be in a relationship with Tarou several times with her behavior. Her 'helping' Tarou to not be able to see Eve (and any other FLZs in the process) is just her selfish desire to remove any obstacles or distractions between her and Tarou's affections. And let's not turn a blind eye to her cowardly plan to flee back to America after she's taken away Tarou's happiness, which she's twisted into a sense of self-martyrdom to make herself feel better.
"It harms Ebino because she also fell in love with him and feels guilt because she caused him to see FLZs, not just Eve, in the first place." Ebino is only hurt by this because she's been led to believe that Tarou being able to see Eve/FLZs is a bad thing, which is highly debatable and, from what I can tell, is just an example of Ibusuki manipulating Ebino with her biased view of the situation to get her on her side.
"It harms Tarou because, putting Eve aside, he still doesn't like seeing the FLZs even now. He's used to it, but he still doesn't care to see them." Except you can't put Eve aside, because Tarou being able to see and interact with her is currently his greatest source of happiness and comfort. And let's not forget that his ability to see FLZs has motivated him to get involved with and help those around him, whereas before he mostly kept to himself and didn't get involved with others. Eve is the catalyst for a change for the better for Tarou's life.
"Eve knows she's a FLZ and her love for Tarou is not a natural one, but wants to keep it going as long as possible. But if you've noticed her fixation on broken-hearted FLZs disappearing into objects of personal value, it's clear Eve is also looking for something to prepare herself. Let's move on to Tarou. Yes, he loves her, but by his own admission (ergo his own feelings, as per your request), he knows this is not something right and that he's effectively just in love with a delusion. He knows it needs to end at some point, but is digging in his heels to do so." Both Tarou and Eve have been led to believe by the people around them and their own lack of successful examples to follow that their relationship is not normal, ideal, or has any possible positive future. Eve, in her love for Tarou, is seeking a way that she can exist and be there for him without 'interfering' in his ability to live a 'normal', happy life. Tarou's only real problem with the situation is that (so far) he doesn't know of a way that he and Eve can interact with each other outside of being able to see and hear each other, despite both of them wanting much, much more than that. But even only being able to see and hear each other, Tarou and Eve clearly enjoy their time together, and have the potential for a long and happy relationship in spite of their limitations.
"He's lighting the candle at both ends, if you will, which is bad for ANYBODY. To compare it, it's like an alcoholic (or in Tarou's case an Eve-holic) trying to quit but having a bad time of it." Except that Tarou and Eve staying together has no real drawbacks. If you know of any, aside from the irrelevant feelings of outsiders or their anxiety at not knowing how to advance their ability to interact, please list them.

 

[helpfulcomrade]

And would you look at that, now Ibusuki is manipulating Tarou's sister into being on her side as well, the witch.

 

[Isekaijin]

@TwilightFaze It doesn't harm Ririsu and Ebino, at least not more than if Tarou had fallen for another girl. Eve being a FLZ is an unrelated matter.
Besides, the error comes from them treating Eve as a dangerous parasite entity instead of another rival, which she actually is. And despite Eve being her perfect idealized girl, both Ririsu and Ebino do have chances. Tarou still sort of kept liking Ririsu despite thinking she was a guy, and he had found himself attracted to Ebino in various occasions.

It's their attitude that piss me off. It's because in the end they don't trust Tarou despite supposedly "liking" him. A first love is something you outgrow on your own. Outsiders shouldn't interfere, even more so if they're biased outsiders.

 

[TwilightFaze]

@helpfulcomrade: Ok, dude? You're talking of bias, but you're being really tunnel-visioned.

No, the latest chapter pretty much locked it in that she fell back in love with Tarou. Her past actions and internal dialogues in previous chapters also enforce this, so you're saying she has no actions makes absolutely no sense. Even the latest chapter shows this. And her not wanting to see FLZs was Tarou's original goal anyway. He feels guilty Ibusuki sees them at all and wants to do right by her. Hardly selfish since it's mutual. Don't forget her reason for wanting to get rid of FLZs to begin with; it's because it robbed her of her childhood and she sees things no girl growing up wants to see. Eve is collateral damage, this is not up for debate yeah, but please don't twist her motivations into JUST being about her and Tarou's relationship. Remember that she has the power to control Eve too (and has done so at least twice). If she really wanted to kill her off, she would have done so already. Again, the latest chapter only confirms that's not what she wants to do at all. (Yeah, she's considering going back to America, but let's be real: we all know it won't happen. Seeing as this is a rom-com, her likelihood of leaving is really low and not really a point, just a distraction).

As for Ebino, you're displaying your own biased thinking on this one. Ibusuki has made no manipulations and told her the truth so far. Ebino has made her own conclusions and is famous for jumping to them REAL quick. I fully agree her stance is debatable, but mostly because she's only JUST been made aware. I think we should give it a few more chapters before we conclude she's going to be an antagonist for Tarou and Eve or another ally in their quest to stop seeing FLZs. For now WAAAAAY too soon to tell.

Yes, Eve is the catalyst for change for the better for Tarou. Not disputing that and anyone who does clearly hasn't read the manga. But ultimately Eve herself is still an FLZ. One hell of a phenomena of one, but an FLZ regardless. The reason I wanted you to put her aside is to return your focus to the OTHER FLZs. You've been so focused on Eve, you forget about the FLZs as a whole. That's what I mean by tunnel vision. Eve is an exception and nobody, not even the main cast, wants anything bad to happen to her, but even Eve and Tarou knows she's just racing against the proverbial clock. If the characters knows this, the reader should as well. Maybe some miracle will happen (I'd love that too, don't get me wrong!), but they have faced reality. Until a situation shows that it's possible, you need to as well. You say there are no drawbacks, but consider Tarou's stance in society. He's dating his invisible friend. We as the readers think they're cute, but again reality is not so kind and the manga has shown that. You can't ignore reality just because it doesn't mesh with your delusions. And from every angle (yes, even Eve's. Several chapters have had her confirm she's aware of this.) she IS a delusion.

Your bias also reflects in your claim that Ibusuki is manipulating his sister. That's MAJORLY false. If anyone is manipulating her, their dad it first. He planted the idea he's cursed with demons in her head and all Ibusuki did is give honest answers to the sister. Not Ibusuki's fault the sister, being a pretty good detective, came to her own conclusions. Ibusuki is looking for answers, not murder weapon. You're a huge fan of Eve, I get that, but don't paint Ibusuki as the bad guy either. She's just making the choice of facing reality while Tarou is choosing to cover his ears and eyes singing la-la-la. If he's not gonna do his part, that's no reason why ibusuki should stop her investigations.

@Isekaijin: Oh she's Ibusuki's love rival, for sure. Not up for debate! Ibusuki is also jealous because Eve has the ideal body Ibusuki wanted. However, Ririsu clearly loves Eve like family too and the latest chapter shows she has no desire to kill her off. Also, while I agree with your outsiders statement overall (a damn good reason to get aggravated!), family and close friends have always been the exception to the rule. Tarou's sister and Ibusuki want answers hence their investigation and Ebino is the source of it all (albeit slightly indirectly) so she got involved. The rest of their friends...yeah, if they decided to meddle not knowing about the FLZs (like Ririsu's grandma and old friend), it's more comic relief than actual intervention.........so far.

 

[Mimik]

I’m just saying. If Ririsu isn’t with that fucking afro kid by the end of this lunacy, I’m gonna be fuckin pissed.

 

[helpfulcomrade]

@TwilightFaze: It's hilarious that you accuse me of talking out of bias and with tunnel vision, and then proceed with your display of mental gymnastics at arguing your viewpoint. You ignore everything about the story that disagrees with your beliefs, oversimplify when the details discredit your argument, and twist the entire narrative of the story so far to fit your own vision. Tarou may be in love with a figment of his imagination, but you're the only one here who's deluding themselves.
Though I suppose all of this is to be expected with an Ibusuki advocate.

 

[TwilightFaze]

@helpfulcomrade: Wow, dude, don't be a dick. I'm just pointing something out (per your request, I might add) and you spend a full paragraph to insult me. I've never once said your viewpoint on Eve was incorrect or wrong, just tunneled and biased, because you're such a huge fan. There's nothing wrong with that, but you need to open your mind and not dismiss something that doesn't agree with your shipping.

Fact of the matter is I'm neither Team Ibusuki, Team Eve, or whatever. I enjoy the story and enjoy the mysteries behind the FLZ. The romance between Tarou and Eve is friggin' ADORABLE, no less than Ibusuki's desire to get back together with Tarou. I've ignored nothing, wrote things from a dual perspective, and twisted no narratives. I've given you the examples you asked for, but if anyone dismissed them, it's you. The latest chapter proved strong evidence of Ibsuki's stance on Eve, but you continued to demonize her because you're a huge Eve fan.

Stay Team Eve. Again, there's nothing wrong with that. All I'm saying is don't twist the facts that don't fit your mold. If you want a bad guy in the series so much, bare your fangs at Tarou's dad. Unlike Ibusuki, he DOES want to eliminate her and tried to recruit his daughter to help him. All your hate about Ibusuki best describes him: He doesn't like FLZs being around his son, he sees them as demons, he wants to eliminate them, he's manipulating his family, etc. If you're gonna demonize anyone, there's your target.

 

[helpfulcomrade]

@TwilightFaze: You can claim impartiality all you like - all it does at this point is make you a troll. Your interpretations are twisted far from the truth, to the point that they're insulting to people with an actual invested interest in the story. Ibusuki may not want to destroy Eve, but she still wants to remove her from her path to Tarou, and it's out of her own selfishness. Add to the fact that she's doing this behind Tarou's back and recruiting his friends and family to help her, and it's clear that she's become the primary antagonist in the story. Tarou's father is, at best, a wacky secondary antagonist with knowledge and experience that neither Tarou nor Ibuski have at this point.

 

[TwilightFaze]

@helpfulcomrade: Ok, first off? Quit insulting me. I didn't insult you, only pointed out that you're looking at things from a narrow scope, not the full picture. I also complimented you on being an Eve fan (supported it, even) and agreed with you that they're freakin' cute together. You bashing at me and insulting me is the more troll-like behavior since you've done nothing to counter my points, only insult them. You're better than that.

Second off: "Ibusuki may not want to destroy Eve, but she still wants to remove her from her path to Tarou, and it's out of her own selfishness."
This right here is what I mean by a narrow view (I repeat NARROW. TUNNELED. Not incorrect, not wrong, just INCOMPLETE. I can't stress this enough!). You're only looking at it from their relationship level. You need to remember that Ibusuki's ultimate goal is to get rid of seeing FLZs completely. Plus, she's been doing her own investigations and mission "behind Tarou's back" loooooooooooooooong before they reunited back in Chapter 1. She doesn't need his permission to continue doing this any more than Tarou needs Ibusuki's permission on keeping Eve around. They agreed to cooperate to help with Ibusuki getting rid of seeing FLZs. Anything past that is their own personal problem.
Please note I never said you were wrong about Ibusuki having ulterior motives about her desire to get back together with Tarou. I've only been trying to say it stretches more than that. Chapter 140 is proof that she wants to separate Eve from Tarou, sure, but that she also is still on a mission to stop seeing FLZs. Until now, you also claimed he tried to eradicate her, but as I've proven (Chapter 140 again), that was the father's plan (Chapter 132, and 133 where he loosely explains the FLZ in a negative format). He's only wacky about his wife and daughter, but don't ignore the cold reception he gave both his sons (Chapter 131). He's got a beef with the FLZs and while he's hardly a primary antagonist (honestly, I don't think this series really has any), it's clear he's going to be a problem about it.

"Add to the fact that she's doing this behind Tarou's back and recruiting his friends and family to help her, and it's clear that she's become the primary antagonist in the story."
Again, you're dead-wrong and I'll go into more details for you. However, I need to amend my statement as we are BOTH wrong about Tarou's sister. She was never recruited: she got herself involved by her own investigations, interrogated the father and got the rest of the information from Ibusuki (Chapter 137. Ebino for 138). Still, if you read Ibusuki's explanation, not one word is manipulated or out of place. Jump to Chapter 140: Again, nothing but honest answers from the sister's questions, even clearing up the misunderstanding on how Eve looks. It was even the sister who called out that Ibusuki was still in love with Tarou, so it's obvious she's not being manipulated. She self-recruited herself to get answers as well, same as Ibusuki.
Same with Ebino on Chapter 138 and 139. Ebino was the one asking the questions and Ibusuki answered them and even defended Tarou's love for Eve on Chapter 139, also viewing her as more than just an FLZ but another girl. Ebino was the one to tell Ibusuki that she shouldn't just accept things as they are and take action, with Ibusuki following up she's working on a plan to take care of this issue. Plus, if she was recruiting her, why would she have told her to keep pretending like she knows nothing to Tarou? That defeats the purpose of "recruiting" someone and "manipulating" them.

As I've proven (I've even pointed out the chapters for you, so I hope to god you'll stop insulting me and calling me a troll now!), Ibusuki may have ulterior motives, relationship-wise, but she's by no means an antagonist. If anything, as someone much more experienced with FLZs (another fact we can't ignore), it's shown that Tarou's love for Eve is unhealthy and mentally detrimental. This is the reality of it. From the beginning Eve was never going to have a happy ending, we all knew that. We just gotta enjoy the ride before her time comes. The one good news is that Ibusuki isn't planning to kill Eve. We don't know her master plan yet, but we do know that it involves her and Tarou to end their relationship. Believe me, I get it: It sucks because she's such the perfect girl, but a delusion is still a delusion. That's also a fact. Personally, I hope that Eve will disappear into Ririsu and gets "reborn" into their daughter.

 

[helpfulcomrade]

H'right, 'not an Ibusuki advocate' my ass. You're not fooling anyone at this point.

 

[1986ctcel]

@TwilightFaze

Screw "reborn into her daughter" and "a de!usion is still a delusion"

That's just saying Eve's very existence is wrong or that Tarou and Eve shouldn't be together simply because they're not both human.

Yeah they need some help and intervention I agree but Eve is her own being and she deserves to be able to make her own decisions. If Tarou and Eve want to be together than the proper thing to do is to help both of them be less codependent and for Eve to continue evolving beyond her current state as she has for the past run of the manga not "exorcism and making them never see one another again". It's basically shitting on nonstandard relationships in favor of "normality".

Solitary confinement does fucked up shit to people IRL, so making Eve unable to interact with the people she cares for is basically torture. Even worse is "killing her" for stupid reasons.

 

[TwilightFaze]

@helpfulcomrade: M'kay. No confirmation to anything I wrote and continued to insult. You're a textbook troll. Got it. No, no, that's fine. I fell for it, hook line and sinker. No one to blame but myself.

@1986ctcel: Not what I was trying to say, but that's a very good point! Let me elaborate.
No, Eve's existence is not wrong. In the end, we still don't know what FLZs are. Honestly, I'm with Kazuki in that they seem more like delusions, hence why I said that. More likely than not, what you propose is exactly how the manga will go about it. Favoring "normality" is one thing, but until we know what Eve is, this is akin to that lady that tried to marry the Eiffel Tower (I'm not kidding. Google it. It actually happened.), at least for now.

We don't know Ibusuki's plan either. We only know she wants to separate Eve and Tarou, but unlike Tarou's dad, has no desire to kill her at all. Gotta remember she tried to have Eve stay with Ibusuki instead and go with her to America. I seriously doubt her plan is solitary confinement, but I'm with you in that, forget Tarou, they are all doing this without Eve's consideration. All we know for sure is Tarou's dad is an asshole who can also see FLZs. Hopefully, he'll grow up and give some answers and quit being a prick to his sons.

 

[aizen07]

Oh so his dad probably hates men cause he sees all those zombies lol. It's why he acts cold to his younger son

 

[LittleBuster1]

Christ what an absolute shit tier series rofl