Have a dedicated button to separate the old comment system from the new system

[shinya78]

Since someone might as well make the suggestion...

Ever since the complaints about the button that used to direct the old comments to the forums are now being used by the new system, and that the old chapter discussion comments are now being buried underneath it. I suggest adding a new button, not unlike the old one, that would serve the purpose of separating the new integrated comments from the old forum comments.

The old button could function the same as before, just rebranded to something different, while the new button would serve for the new integrated comments. For example, forum [Discuss]ions vs casual [Comment]s. (Or use the new button for the old system, whichever is easier for the devs.)

This is effectively a suggestion to rebrand the old chapter comments in the forumsreader as DISCUSS(ions) to differentiate it from the new system that is taking over as the new COMMENT(s).

This would allow users to quickly comment using the new system, while keeping the old system just as easily accessible as it used to for forum discussions, ensuring that both systems could co-exist without so much a fuss.

"Can we have two buttons?": No, it's confusing, and that will lead to a further split of platform vs forums.

Confusing? How?
All this does is give easy access to what still exists as the old forum comments. The sub-forum where these old comments are located is already called Chapter Discussions for that specific reason. Rebranding the old system to something else would clearly tell the user what to expect, light comments about the chapter vs deep discussions about the chapter. Sure, anyone could use either system for whatever purpose with varying degrees of success, but having both options being openly available right in front for everyone to use is better than burying the old function underneath the new one. Users will naturally trickle down whichever system they want for whichever purpose.

If the idea was having both alive as mentioned by @Bartolumiu

the plan is to keep both the new comments and the forums alive at the same time, with each having its own purpose.
Title and chapter comments on the new system, and general chatting and discussion here in the forums (so yeah, lurkers, you can keep lurking as you've been doing up until now).

Then this should be a no-brainer.

 

[shinya78]

What this all boils down to, really, is:

• Having a new button right next the comment-container (old forum comments) button that directly links to the forums, specifically the chapter discussions sub-forum, for quick and easy access.
• Moving the [Read X older comments.] to the reader menu, somewhere above or below the [X comments] button would be, and rebranding it as discussions to differentiate it from comments. Fitting, as the sub-forum it leads to ALREADY IS called Chapter Discussions.

 

[yogurtman250]

There are many things that I believe will be lost in the forum to comment transition, and I hope that doesn't happen

 

[jeezits]

Count down for the staff to post something petulant and lock this thread too...

 

[shinya78]

There are many things that I believe will be lost in the forum to comment transition, and I hope that doesn't happen

At one side, users that just want to [thx for the chapter-and-go] or shitpost wouldn't need to visit the forums for that purpose. On the other side, users that like to read and write walls-of-texts wouldn't bog down the comments with their walls-o-text while reply-quoting one user after another... hopefully.

 

[duraz0rz]

My main gripe with having chapter discussions in the forums is the user profile and session not being the same. There are some UX issues, but I'd just chalk that up to a v1 release that will be iterated on (especially since they own the code, not xenforo).

re: shitpost vs wall of text - that happens in any comment system. At least discussions may be facilitated in the future with a reply button (it's disabled atm).

There are many things that I believe will be lost in the forum to comment transition, and I hope that doesn't happen

Like?

 

[shinya78]

My main gripe with having chapter discussions in the forums is the user profile and session not being the same.

I personally don't mind this being the case, different strokes for different folks, I guess.

re: shitpost vs wall of text - that happens in any comment system.

I pretty much mentioned this being a complete possibility at the initial post, but at least people are incentivized to do either at their respective system.

 

[BobBiscuit]

Count down for the staff to post something petulant and lock this thread too...

Because being rightfully angry at this change must be bandwagoning. :V
As it is, despite the "reassurances" that the forums are intended to retain their functionality and use, the overall feel from the UI introduced in this update is that of outright hostility towards the forums, as has staff reactions to criticism of this update, and that genuinely worries me, and I can't get it out of my head that it's just corporate lip service. I understand that nobody likes change, and it can get grating to be blamed if you have no say in the matter yourself, but the fact remains that as staff, they need to at least try to step back and identify and separate valid criticism from mindless whining, and as staff, they still have more direct means of communication with the people who do have say than any of us users do.

I would love having a button to take me directly to the forums again, from both the chapter and the feed (as I don't want to have to wade into the chapter several times to check for new posts on threads I've been enjoying, or need to go into a chapter on a manga I'm super iffy about just to see what people who have read it have to say on its quality or whatnot). As it is, the current method of getting to a chapter's forum thread is what feels deliberately confusing/obtuse, and additionally, having been a hair's breadth from disabled in all but official paperwork for several years, I don't have money to cough up to engage in the current comment system unless someone has been so kind as to create a thread for it already. And as you can see from this post, I tend to be wordy. Short-form-required comment sections and squished comment sections being the only options available drive me away from interacting from a community, because I don't feel like I can accurately convey my thoughts, with the exception of one-off jokes (and the current side-bar squished comment section would drive me away anyway, because half my screen is the fucking sun in comparison to the comment section: manga pages are not affected by dark mode).

 

[erellisae]

Like?

As I mentioned in the other thread, I've regularly done PR passes for chapters where people could use or have explicitly asked for constructive feedback. Most of them exceed the 2000 character comment limit for the new system 3 times over. There are multiple posts in this and the other suggestion thread which would be too long for the new comment limit. Even if the comment limit were increased, reading very long posts in a sidebar will be very poor UI.

 

[KiraEllion]

My question is why try to replace ComicK's best feature with a seemingly half assed attempt.

why would you make it harder to access the forums via re purposing the chapter comment buttons someones either being vindictive (likely) or no one saw the obvious flaws that would piss off long time users (also likely)

 

[Syri]

As the announcement thread was locked, I guess I'll add my comment regarding the matter here instead.
I read in the announcement staff responding to the disappointment in the new system saying something along the lines of "people complained at not having embedded comments, now people complain about implementing them". Well, that is because the older system that we had, that used embedded comments, worked by embedding the forum posts. Those complaining of the lack of that feature are (mostly) either those that missed that feature since it didn't re-appear in the site re-launch, or those who are comparing to other sites. Ignoring the comparisons to other sites for a moment, the main reason that this feature is being received badly is because it is firstly going in a different direction to those who wanted embedded comments to return, but also because of the separation of the community.
To sum up my feelings on this: What I feel people wanted - Forum comments embedded in the viewer as well. What we got - Community division and an attempt to push away the established user base in favour of people who might trend more towards wanting to pay for services. This is just my take, but to me, as a user of the site since almost day 1, it really sucks.
I would therefore suggest just going with the original design, embed the forums in the chapter parts. Stop trying to re-invent the wheel. There was a system in place before, it worked.

 

[Xerlith]

I don't undertand why they won't simply embed the forums into the viewer. It is not impossible, it's not even that dififcult to do.

They just made the comment system for the sake of it instead of improving what they already have.

 

[shinya78]

To sum up my feelings on this: What I feel people wanted - Forum comments embedded in the viewer as well. What we got - Community division and an attempt to push away the established user base in favour of people who might trend more towards wanting to pay for services. This is just my take, but to me, as a user of the site since almost day 1, it really sucks.
I would therefore suggest just going with the original design, embed the forums in the chapter parts. Stop trying to re-invent the wheel. There was a system in place before, it worked.

While embedding the forums into the viewer would've been a perfectly valid move early on, it probably no longer seemed feasible to them now when you consider where the site is also heading towards to. I fail to see how this move would divide the community any further than their... other decisions already did. We already received confirmation that comments will not be stuck behind a paywall after all the "paid beta-testing" is done, and if they keep to their word of not going the way of CRoll, we've already seen the extend of the benefits of supporting them.

No use crying foul over days gone by, the better move would be making the most out of the compromise that we've been dealt with.

 

[Pyoro]

I fail to see how this move would divide the community any further than their... other decisions already did

It's not about attitude, it's about actually dividing the community in where they post. Discussions need a critical mass. Let's say you read one of the less popular titles on here, and previously 5 people commented. It's somewhat reasonable that at least two people actually have some interaction within the comments.

Now maybe out of the 5 3 use the new system and 2 use the old system. The ones who previously would have talked to each other, and maybe sparked further debate, are now talking past each other. Or have to jump between channels for ... zero reason.

The effect is similar with bigger groups of people too, though less obvious.

The stated goal was to increase site engagement (why actually?) iirc but I'm pretty sure for some it'll just do the opposite, and I'm very dubious it'll increase the quality of engagement.


But either way OP's point is entirely reasonable. If I want to access classic discussion I should just be able to; there's no reason that can't be the case without first going through something else.

 

[JVick]

Edit : shouldn't have surprised me in retrospect. I shouldn't bother

 

[shinya78]

It's not about attitude, it's about actually dividing the community in where they post. Discussions need a critical mass. Let's say you read one of the less popular titles on here, and previously 5 people commented. It's somewhat reasonable that at least two people actually have some interaction within the comments.

Now maybe out of the 5 3 use the new system and 2 use the old system. The ones who previously would have talked to each other, and maybe sparked further debate, are now talking past each other. Or have to jump between channels for ... zero reason.

The effect is similar with bigger groups of people too, though less obvious.

The stated goal was to increase site engagement (why actually?) iirc but I'm pretty sure for some it'll just do the opposite, and I'm very dubious it'll increase the quality of engagement.

I see the "channel hopping" as part of the compromise, and I already know fully well how it feels like to be involved with forums for the less popular titles. Neither system would do much for those titles regardless, it all depends on us users.

I can't read any further into as to why they want more site engagement without going into tinfoil hat territory, but at least I'm inclined to believe that with the new system, they intend to welcome a new wave of readers that comes from a younger generation than us old guards. This new wave being the same wave that suddenly burst into the scene after "La Rona". Only time will tell if this new wave will actually come, but yeah, this is all starting to feel like SF6's Modern and Classic styles clashing all over again.

[snip]

Obligatory reminder that CommentsTM is currently pay-to-beta test, and will be available absolutely free for all regular users when the paying chefs are done cooking.

 

[JVick]

Obligatory reminder that CommentsTM is currently pay-to-beta test, and will be available absolutely free for all regular users when the paying chefs are done cooking.

Yeah it's just that I find writing/reading comments with only 20% of the screen while the forum is available is a bit stupid, but that's only my opinion. But it's the modern norms, so let's all hail our Claude-themed PR.

 

[Forkuth]

Honestly this is a good idea.
Having the comment button tell me that only paypigs can comment then it tells me to go look at the old comments is weird.
Id thought at first commenting was completely disabled for free members not that they were adding integrated comments the wording is terrible

 

[Shrimperor]

Ngl
This year has been just shit update after shit update, and the staff has been awful at communication and more than anything seem to want to make the community go away

 

[JVick]

Ngl
This year has been just shit update after shit update, and the staff has been awful at communication and more than anything seem to want to make the community go away

I give at most one year before MD drop a 'it's costing us too much to maintain two different comment sections' and we'll be left with this new comment section that looks like the mangaplus comment section.