Henkyou no Roukishi: Bard Loen - Vol. 9 Ch. 58 - Spirit of the Waterfall

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Yeah, it is something that isn't done enough, especially casual nudity between both men and women.

But admittedly... it isn't exactly easy to do, because I think it needs a little setup, a good one... or just done so out of the blue and without any awkwardness, which is even more difficult.
it's only difficult because people in general aren't used to the idea, that's the only reason people couldn't come up with good scenarios of it. all it really takes is for the people involved to see each other as friends without any romantic and sexual desire involved. ofc the execution itself depends on the author, which is pretty much just like every other writing decisions.
 
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Yeah, it is something that isn't done enough, especially casual nudity between both men and women.

But admittedly... it isn't exactly easy to do, because I think it needs a little setup, a good one... or just done so out of the blue and without any awkwardness, which is even more difficult.
Starship Troopers The Movie comes to mind, too. Either way... Artist feels like maybe they studied under Satoshi Urushihara with those clean body lines on everyone, god damn.
 
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it's only difficult because people in general aren't used to the idea, that's the only reason people couldn't come up with good scenarios of it. all it really takes is for the people involved to see each other as friends without any romantic and sexual desire involved. ofc the execution itself depends on the author, which is pretty much just like every other writing decisions.
But that is the question... how modern or overall society has evolved the notion of nudity is the hurdle that makes writing such moments difficult.

Sure... we could say that as people we should leave this behind... but it isn't so simple, intimacy isn't looked the same way by everyone.

Which gives this particular device even more complexity... but finding an artist that can weave those complexities to make such moments compelling, be they as comedy or heartfelt moments is always a great pleasure.
 
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Starship Troopers The Movie comes to mind, too. Either way... Artist feels like maybe they studied under Satoshi Urushihara with those clean body lines on everyone, god damn.
To this day... the shower scene brings a comfortable feeling to me, like... we could finally accept each other by our strengths and weaknesses... without the rampant fascism and ultra-nationalism.

The irony that such a movie can show those moments of human growth and at the same time show our worst as a species is... incredible, that movie really aged like fine wine.
 
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To this day... the shower scene brings a comfortable feeling to me, like... we could finally accept each other by our strengths and weaknesses... without the rampant fascism and ultra-nationalism.

The irony that such a movie can show those moments of human growth and at the same time show our worst as a species is... incredible, that movie really aged like fine wine.
Ultra-nationalism I'll grant, but it's not even fascist. It's faux-fascist, a parody of fascism that in the end doesn't even manage to reasonably critique the concept (which isn't hard to understand once you know that Paul didn't even bother reading the book, and just made shit up), let alone represent it; if anything it just shows the issues of military excess and leading too far from the rear.
 
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Living in the wilderness but still finding the time to shave her armpits.
Dammit i was about to praise the author for the realism of giving her bush, and then turns out nope, it makes no sense for her armpits to be that clean :dogkek:

It was a great page tho

In other news, Julchaga is learning how to write and read!!!
 
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Dammit i was about to praise the author for the realism of giving her bush, and then turns out nope, it makes no sense for her armpits to be that clean :dogkek:

It was a great page tho

In other news, Julchaga is learning how to write and read!!!
I wouldn't be so hasty to slag off the author 😝 for the depiction, even in medieval times (or even further back to the Romans) there were reports of woman shaving their body hair (sometimes seen as an attempt to restore their youth/have an air of false chastity around them iirc).

Since it's a fantasy setting it's kinda a moot point anyway.
 
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Ultra-nationalism I'll grant, but it's not even fascist. It's faux-fascist, a parody of fascism that in the end doesn't even manage to reasonably critique the concept (which isn't hard to understand once you know that Paul didn't even bother reading the book, and just made shit up), let alone represent it; if anything it just shows the issues of military excess and leading too far from the rear.
Oh no.. he read the book alright... Just turned one aspect of it into a Movie, the one that would actually make a good movie and Sell...

The book is from 1959, and ... is in many ways ...difficult to place...
I've always felt that most of it was because it was cast by the publisher as a Young Adult story ( bringing with it some pretty strict censorship rules...) , while Heinlein himself had already progressed to writing (quite...) adult fiction.

There's a chapter dedicated to it in "Grumbles from the Grave", which actually does hint at the direction Paul Verhoeven took with the movie.

Neither is the world fascist or faux-fascist. It is a literal depiction of a possible future of the US , with the Cold War in full swing, and the Vietnam War already 4 years underway... ( yes... it started that early , and lasted for 20 years... After two Wars to End All Wars, no less...)
The Question asked in it is quite real as well: What does it take to get Citizenship and getting to Decide Things? Important Things..
And it's no secret Heinlein was very much not a fan of Communists, or the US-ian Salon Socialists.
Add to that the actual demands of the Censors at the time that any book aimed at a non-adult audience could not contain any hint of condonement for Socialism... , or be any kind of "Un-American"...
Not many ways to go there....
 
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Ultra-nationalism I'll grant, but it's not even fascist. It's faux-fascist, a parody of fascism that in the end doesn't even manage to reasonably critique the concept (which isn't hard to understand once you know that Paul didn't even bother reading the book, and just made shit up), let alone represent it; if anything it just shows the issues of military excess and leading too far from the rear.
Fair... but ultra-nationalism, in a practice sense, is one step away from fascism.

But the disparities between the book and movie are something I can't comment on, as I only watched the movie, so my defense falls here.
 
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Oh no.. he read the book alright... Just turned one aspect of it into a Movie, the one that would actually make a good movie and Sell...
No, he literally didn't. There is multiple sources of confirmation within his own studio team that he did not read the book, including his own quote of, "...stopped after two chapters because it was so boring ... it is really quite a bad book ... it's a very right-wing book", lmao. He relied on other people reading the book and telling him things, and his own hubristic assumptions of what the story was.

Neither is the world fascist or faux-fascist. It is a literal depiction of a possible future of the US , with the Cold War in full swing, and the Vietnam War already 4 years underway... ( yes... it started that early , and lasted for 20 years... After two Wars to End All Wars, no less...)
The Question asked in it is quite real as well: What does it take to get Citizenship and getting to Decide Things? Important Things..
Mhm. And it went into detail about how it's the right of the people to serve for their citizenship in whatever way they can, regardless of how disabled they might be, and that military service is simply the fastest route rather than the only route. One particular line that always stood out to me was the one about how if someone were to be so disabled they could barely function, they still had the right to seek citizenship and they would have to find something they could do to earn it, even if it be something like counting the hairs on caterpillars, or something to that effect; in other words, matching the skills and capabilities offered to something they can do.

And it's no secret Heinlein was very much not a fan of Communists, or the US-ian Salon Socialists.
Add to that the actual demands of the Censors at the time that any book aimed at a non-adult audience could not contain any hint of condonement for Socialism... , or be any kind of "Un-American"...
That needs to come back, honestly, considering McCarthy was right (and those so-called "Salon Socialists" were quite a bit deeper into the far left than was originally thought, which the Venona Papers' declassification all revealed). Marcuse and the whole Frankfurt School of Critical Theory that upended itself and implanted right into the middle of New York (and then spread like a disease from there) has been one of the worst things to happen to the USA on a sociopolitical level because of all the knock-on effects it has had to the negative for critical thinking. And no, that's not me supporting far-right-wing BS, either, just abhoring what used to be my own political side gone to such extremism that they call what was left-wing politics (left-libertarianism) as far-right, because of how far into radical authoritarianism they've devolved as the primary body of left-wing politics.

Fair... but ultra-nationalism, in a practice sense, is one step away from fascism.

But the disparities between the book and movie are something I can't comment on, as I only watched the movie, so my defense falls here.
No, ultra-nationalism is fairly neutral, left/right politically; social nationalism and fascism lay on either side of it. It can diverge into either easily enough, with just the right push at the right time by the right people (or should all those be 'wrong"?), but otherwise is a rather agnostic form that elevates the Citizen as Plato's Democracy was intended to be, while not intrinsically denigrating the non-Citizen.
 
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The 4 men gazed at the woman bathing in the spring and though to themselves... "Nice". And collectively came to the decision not to make a fuss about it, avert their gaze, or make it weird. They just enjoyed the moment.

Male MCs of other series need to take note.

edit: But not literally! Taking notes of women bathing from a distance is creepy.
 
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No, ultra-nationalism is fairly neutral, left/right politically; social nationalism and fascism lay on either side of it. It can diverge into either easily enough, with just the right push at the right time by the right people (or should all those be 'wrong"?), but otherwise is a rather agnostic form that elevates the Citizen as Plato's Democracy was intended to be, while not intrinsically denigrating the non-Citizen.
In theory, but in practice ultra-nationalism is by nature very aggressive against the "non-citizens" or contrarians, which easily evolves into downright fascism.

Sure there are differences and circumstances, even buffers, depending on the particular culture we are talking about, but there is a reason why this concept has such a definition as "ultra".

Nationalism is good, a country should have a strong and stable image of itself, otherwise, its culture, however many it has, can be in danger and its stability, both economical social, and political too, but when a country or group enters the stage of ultra-nationalism... they already stopped being in a healthy state.

You are right... by itself, it is neutral, and both sides can become ultra-nationalist and even fascists, because contrary to what people think... fascism isn't a thing only of the "right-wing", there is no shortage of "left-wing" fascists in history... and the things that have been done for... "the good of the country" are... bone chilling, both to "non-citizens" and citizens.
 
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In theory, but in practice ultra-nationalism is by nature very aggressive against the "non-citizens" or contrarians, which easily evolves into downright fascism.
It's antagonistic against those who completely refute the nation, which is to be expected; any ideology is antagonistic towards anything or anyone that refutes its beliefs, moreso if they otherwise share many other beliefs.

However, it's not antagonistic towards non-citizens that still live under its auspices. As example, Juan Rico's family are very rich and well-to-do and operate just fine within the nation of Earth in the novel AND the book, without ever being Citizens for several generations; it really is just a restriction of who can be politically active, when it comes down to it.

Sure there are differences and circumstances, even buffers, depending on the particular culture we are talking about, but there is a reason why this concept has such a definition as "ultra".
The primary issue is that it holds one nation above all, and thus, cannot accept other nations as superior; it doesn't care about cultures, so long as they accept the one nation precept. The Earth in Heinlein's novel was able to reach a global nationhood and still have many different local cultures still because of that. Without that unity, it definitely has more demerits than merits, honestly.

Nationalism is good, a country should have a strong and stable image of itself, otherwise, its culture, however many it has, can be in danger and its stability, both economical social, and political too, but when a country or group enters the stage of ultra-nationalism... they already stopped being in a healthy state.
Personally, I agree, so long as there are competing nations. I don't see Earth in reality ever doing away with competing nations, at the very least not within at least double digit more generations, so I really don't see any benefit to adopting any such ideology, especially since such would likely be rooted in core concepts of xenophobia and mystical right to supremacy (read: pseudohistorical BS) rather than uplifting one's nation.

If we were to, somehow, though, and get to a place similar to Heinlein's Earth, where it is one nation and one global culture but many local cultures all supportive of that single nation and global culture, I'd argue that it could actually be a considerable benefit, so long as the system's corruption can be managed to a better degree than all current government's corruption, considering that worldwide logistics are the number one issue holding back most people (we've had more than enough food for everyone to eat pleasantly whenever they want for some time now, but the logistics of getting that food to the people who need it has been, by and large, the greatest issue; something a single government could create a department for that then distributes food on a global scale would be daunting, initially, but certainly doable). It would have to remain non-fascist and non-corporatist without delving into national socialism or communism, either, riding the razor's edge, so any such would probably break down once a sufficiently charismatic person was able to put themselves into a position of power and thus wrest control of the system from its rightful form; functionally, as vaporware as Marx's Utopia.

You are right... by itself, it is neutral, and both sides can become ultra-nationalist and even fascists, because contrary to what people think... fascism isn't a thing only of the "right-wing", there is no shortage of "left-wing" fascists in history...
No, you can't get "left-wing fascists"; By definition a fascist cannot be left-wing, due to certain irreconcilable beliefs that that ideology holds; however, you can have national socialism, which effectively functions as the left-wing equivalent.

and the things that have been done for... "the good of the country" are... bone chilling, both to "non-citizens" and citizens.
Very much so. Similarly, the number of things that have been done while falsely holding up "the good of the country" while the true reasoning behind it is quietly shelved by the masterminds, out of sight of the public.
 

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