Honzuki no Gekokujou: Shisho ni Naru Tame ni wa Shudan o Erandeiraremasen—Dai 2-bu: Hon no Tamenara Miko ni Naru! - Vol. 12 Ch. 57 - The Attendant's …

[nathan67003]

A man is about to fucking die and I am HERE for it

 

[DrunkinDonut]

AAaand we are back to "should have learned to use magic at will way earlier than now".
Myne continues to be pathetic.

How praytell, was Myne supposed to learn proper magic? Magic School is legally just for nobles, which she is not. It's illegal for her to learn it. The few books she might even have access to, are hidden inside the Head Priest's sanctum. Aside from her not having permission to read them (that pesky not being a noble), they aren't beginner level books.

All she can do and knows how to do, is charge and discharge magic items, and imbue her killing intent with magic.


And I'm sad, we're getting to the conclusion of Part 2, and I dislike the art style they went with for Part 3.

 

[blablablah]

Kidnapper gonna be hearing Latin lyrics in about 2 seconds.

 

[YamiryuuZero]

More adorable attendants
Eeeevil Myne

I really want to see if this plays out differently than the anime

Wait, the anime covered this arc already?

I remember the anime completely fumbling Myne's character, turning her (at least mentally) into an actual child that doesn't understand anything about life instead of the adult thrown into a world she knows nothing about like she is in the source material.

What I'm trying to say is that it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they fumbled the scene that's to come as well.

 

[Luna12]

Welp, he's cooked. Litterally.

 

[fight2live]

woooo now that's what i'm waiting for

 

[mahtan]

How praytell, was Myne supposed to learn proper magic? Magic School is legally just for nobles, which she is not. It's illegal for her to learn it. The few books she might even have access to, are hidden inside the Head Priest's sanctum. Aside from her not having permission to read them (that pesky not being a noble), they aren't beginner level books.

All she can do and knows how to do, is charge and discharge magic items, and imbue her killing intent with magic.


And I'm sad, we're getting to the conclusion of Part 2, and I dislike the art style they went with for Part 3.

By experimenting and trying things.
She knows she can exert pressure with magic, meaning she knows she can release magic without the need of an artifact and from that the world is her oyster.
What you think the artifacts are the things that generate the magic? They aren't, they just by pass the need to know how to transform mana into an effect (something Myne already does without them).
There are a lot she could have learned, the minimum would be to release the mana at will instead of just when losing control of her emotions and how to control/manipulate that release.

You people are so stupid with your protectionism of what is obviously an idiot.

 

[WhimsiCat]

By experimenting and trying things.
She knows she can exert pressure with magic, meaning she knows she can release magic without the need of an artifact and from that the world is her oyster.
What you think the artifacts are the things that generate the magic? They aren't, they just by pass the need to know how to transform mana into an effect (something Myne already does without them).
There are a lot she could have learned, the minimum would be to release the mana at will instead of just when losing control of her emotions and how to control/manipulate that release.

You people are so stupid with your protectionism of what is obviously an idiot.

Maybe try at least back it up with evidence it's possible in-setting, otherwise it's just you asspulling what's possible.

But so far the setting is humans need magic tool to actually use 'real magic' beyond just controlling your mana flow.
Even in this very chapter Damuel, an actual noble, pulled out his magical staff to use rott.

Heck Crushing IS releasing mana, and she can do that at will already (see back when Gil tried to interrupt her reading time early on) as well as controlling her flow (she held back on filling the chalice when they first tested her mana level)
So you can't even remember what she's actually capable of correctly either.

You are calling others stupid but you're the one asspulling things even against what's shown in the story.

 

[mahtan]

Maybe try at least back it up with evidence it's possible in-setting, otherwise it's just you asspulling what's possible.

But so far the setting is humans need magic tool to actually use 'real magic' beyond just controlling your mana flow.
Even in this very chapter Damuel, an actual noble, pulled out his magical staff to use rott.

Heck Crushing IS releasing mana, and she can do that at will already (see back when Gil tried to interrupt her reading time early on) as well as controlling her flow (she held back on filling the chalice when they first tested her mana level)
So you can't even remember what she's actually capable of correctly either.

You are calling others stupid but you're the one asspulling things even against what's shown in the story.

I don't have to provide anything.
Just because no one does it doesn't it can't be done.
It is said that no one can use magic without an artifact but many times you have Myne using magic without artifacts, some times even by accident. So what Myne does can't be done because no one has done before? That is so stupid.
Take Myne "folding" her mana as example, that was never done by anyone before, said to be impossible until she explains it and is already she manipulating her mana inside her body, just that can have multiple aplications already, like body strenghtening, and we know mana can be transfered by contact, after all the artifact themselves are not sucking the mana and you have to manipulate the mana to send it to them, that could easily be used to generate heat (maybe).

The possibilities are there and they are all based on what the setting shows us. That the MC has no capacity to think outside what she already knows or other people tells her, which makes her an idiot, does not make other options impossible.

But I see a lot of people that truly like this train wreck of a badly told story and love it's air headed protagonist are just as moronic as the MC.

 

[WhimsiCat]

I don't have to provide anything.
Just because no one does it doesn't it can't be done.
It is said that no one can use magic without an artifact but many times you have Myne using magic without artifacts, some times even by accident. So what Myne does can't be done because no one has done before? That is so stupid.
Take Myne "folding" her mana as example, that was never done by anyone before, said to be impossible until she explains it and is already she manipulating her mana inside her body, just that can have multiple aplications already, like body strenghtening, and we know mana can be transfered by contact, after all the artifact themselves are not sucking the mana and you have to manipulate the mana to send it to them, that could easily be used to generate heat (maybe).

The possibilities are there and they are all based on what the setting shows us. That the MC has no capacity to think outside what she already knows or other people tells her, which makes her an idiot, does not make other options impossible.

But I see a lot of people that truly like this train wreck of a badly told story and love it's air headed protagonist are just as moronic as the MC.

So you admit to asspulling what's possible then.

You said she used magic without artifact, but apparently can't seem to mention when it happen? Did it happen in your head while you had it up your ass? Btw in-setting 'crushing' isn't using magic, that's just releasing mana.

Where did someone said it was impossible to compress her mana that way? Mana compression is literally a class in school and it's mentioned families tends to keep what highly efficient mental image they used to compress a secret.
So while the mental image used is new, the basic of the method isn't.

https://mangadex.org/chapter/a523c10c-bcae-4f03-b24d-9550c49939f6/29
This page alone just prove quite a few of your points wrong:

Spoiler

1. Magic tools.
2. Absorbing her mana without her sending it in
3. She has yet to learn body strengthening magic, it's almost like she's missing a certain magical staff every real noble has.
The other known users of body strengthening magic are old enough to have said staff, therefore unless you can show someone without the staff using body strengthening, you can't say it's used without a tool

For how much you seem to hate this series, I have to question why are you even here commenting this far into the series then?

 

[mahtan]

So you admit to asspulling what's possible then.

You said she used magic without artifact, but apparently can't seem to mention when it happen? Did it happen in your head while you had it up your ass? Btw in-setting 'crushing' isn't using magic, that's just releasing mana.

Where did someone said it was impossible to compress her mana that way? Mana compression is literally a class in school and it's mentioned families tends to keep what highly efficient mental image they used to compress a secret.
So while the mental image used is new, the basic of the method isn't.

https://mangadex.org/chapter/a523c10c-bcae-4f03-b24d-9550c49939f6/29
This page alone just prove quite a few of your points wrong:

Spoiler

1. Magic tools.
2. Absorbing her mana without her sending it in
3. She has yet to learn body strengthening magic, it's almost like she's missing a certain magical staff every real noble has.
The other known users of body strengthening magic are old enough to have said staff, therefore unless you can show someone without the staff using body strengthening, you can't say it's used without a tool

For how much you seem to hate this series, I have to question why are you even here commenting this far into the series then?

Talking to you people is useless.
You are all close minded and don't care about what was said and only interested on hard forcing that it has to be the way it happened in the story because otherwise something.
You keep going by "it was not shown before so it is impossible!!".
You people are as lacking in capacity as the MC.... which could explain why so many are so protective of such a flawed and useless person.

 

[WhimsiCat]

Talking to you people is useless.
You are all close minded and don't care about what was said and only interested on hard forcing that it has to be the way it happened in the story because otherwise something.
You keep going by "it was not shown before so it is impossible!!".
You people are as lacking in capacity as the MC.... which could explain why so many are so protective of such a flawed and useless person.

Coming from mr. "I say it's possible therefore it is, you're all wrong"
Surely that's totally not the speech of a close-minded person at all.

Maybe develop a better counter point to convince people instead of going 'waahh wahh you're all baaaaad' anytime someone argues back?

And again, why are you still here if you seem to hate this series so much? Go read something else if you don't like this series, nobody's forcing you to be here.

 

[HailTheHaleHydrator]

So you admit to asspulling what's possible then.

You said she used magic without artifact, but apparently can't seem to mention when it happen? Did it happen in your head while you had it up your ass? Btw in-setting 'crushing' isn't using magic, that's just releasing mana.

Where did someone said it was impossible to compress her mana that way?

--spoilers omitted--

You're completely right and I get why you're heated when a guy makes a baseless claim and declares they don't need anything to back it up, but you should probably put things from later parts in spoilers.

A reasonable point to bring up that isn't a spoiler: each time she has tried to manipulate her mana beyond pressing it down, having it sucked out via fey plants, or learning how to dedicate it to the holy relics she has become deathly ill. Very hard to do the testing Mahtan is so certain Myne (and all of us) are too stupid to do when you get laid out for days after a minute of fun with mana.

I even think that if it wasn't so dangerous they would have a point. Were that the case, a devouring commoner would potentially find

Spoiler: minor spoiler from earlier LN side story

out about weak fey beast's gemstones and putting there mana there. Potentially enough to survive without noble intervention especially with the trombe seeds and potentially discovering other fey plants that could be dyed with their mana.

Spoiler: Is Mahtan vindicated lore-wise (major spoiler level answer but no depth given)

HELL NO LOL. This isn't some power fantasy isekai. People with mana are all basically given a death sentence at birth. It's only thanks to some guy who's dead now, totally not named Smitty Werbenjagermanjensen btw, cried real hard to the gods till he got a cool hat saying he was #1 that some folks with mana in the present (nobles) get to live at all. Basically if you don't have drip, (magic gear) you can't do anything but crush people and die of a weak constitution lol.

 

[WhimsiCat]

A reasonable point to bring up that isn't a spoiler: each time she has tried to manipulate her mana beyond pressing it down, having it sucked out via fey plants, or learning how to dedicate it to the holy relics she has become deathly ill. Very hard to do the testing Mahtan is so certain Myne (and all of us) are too stupid to do when you get laid out for days after a minute of fun with mana.

I even think that if it wasn't so dangerous they would have a point. Were that the case, a devouring commoner would potentially find

Spoiler: minor spoiler from earlier LN side story

out about weak fey beast's gemstones and putting there mana there. Potentially enough to survive without noble intervention especially with the trombe seeds and potentially discovering other fey plants that could be dyed with their mana.

That point isn't true actually.
Her dropping ded is just her having stamina of a dying baby bird from various factors, and can happen just by being overly excited (like when going out shopping with Mark in arc 1)
In fact touching tau fruit/offering mana to holy relic doesn't really tire her out, they lighten the load if anything.

Spoiler

Dirk, who after being ID'd later is shown to have enough mana to be mednoble, couldn't even sprout a single tau fruit into tronbe. He certainly wasn't deathly ill after using it, since Delia would've made it clear if it happens.
Even Philine's brother who was stripped of the magic tool, was still alive long enough to be rescued and send to temple because he's a laynoble.

Devourings with little mana wouldn't really need magic stone/tau fruit to survive to baptism/adulthood.
The ones that's on Myne's level would be dead before they ever grow enough to leave the house.

 

[HailTheHaleHydrator]

That point isn't true actually.
Her dropping ded is just her having stamina of a dying baby bird from various factors, and can happen just by being overly excited (like when going out shopping with Mark in arc 1)
In fact touching tau fruit/offering mana to holy relic doesn't really tire her out, they lighten the load if anything.

Spoiler

Dirk, who after being ID'd later is shown to have enough mana to be mednoble, couldn't even sprout a single tau fruit into tronbe. He certainly wasn't deathly ill after using it, since Delia would've made it clear if it happens.
Even Philine's brother who was stripped of the magic tool, was still alive long enough to be rescued and send to temple because he's a laynoble.

Devourings with little mana wouldn't really need magic stone/tau fruit to survive to baptism/adulthood.
The ones that's on Myne's level would be dead before they ever grow enough to leave the house.

You misread what I wrote. I said besides doing those three things. All three of those activities reduces the pressure of mana building up in her.

various factors

Said factors are the direct result of her very serious issues with the devouring during and before part 1. Seeing as that is the case I think it's quite the apt rebuttal to the other dude's all but unfounded position.

Spoiler: Minor spoilers: Those with the devouring and magic tools

They most certainly do need a mana sink (ie magic tools) to live. It's the entire reason Freida is contracted to a laynoble, and it's the reason a whole host of unnamed devouring soldiers are contracted to various nobles like the one taking Dirk currently. By your logic Frieda, who has needed magic tools pre-baptism, would also be a huge catch for a stronger family just for her mana alone. There would be no chance for a simple laynoble family contracting her as she wouldn't even be a functional mistress since comparable mana levels are important.

Spoiler: much later in the story spoilers

If I'm remembering correctly, Philine's brother was only denied their family heirloom for a winter season at most. The real issue with this is not the risk of death but the loss at a chance of becoming a noble. Laynobles especially need to stockpile the mana of their children in order for them to then use during their lessons years later. The step-mother has removed Konrad's mana so that her own child may take his place as the presumptive heir. There are various other tools that can be powered by family members that aren't going to become nobles. This is what Freida's mana is ultimately used for btw. Some of a house's servants (at least for the more wealthy ones) are in fact relatives that didn't make the cut and also didn't get sent to the temple.

 

[WhimsiCat]

You misread what I wrote. I said besides doing those three things. All three of those activities reduces the pressure of mana building up in her.

That's even worse point then.
If doing anything besides those leave her deathly ill.

Spoiler

how would she function as a noble seeing as she'd be using mana on practically daily basis (like how often she rid Lessy inside the castle)

Said factors are the direct result of her very serious issues with the devouring during and before part 1. Seeing as that is the case I think it's quite the apt rebuttal to the other dude's all but unfounded position.

It's not limited to devouring though.

Spoiler

Jureve is literally made to resolve/prevent such magic stone fragments build up.

Because even noble children can nearly die (Ferdinand being fed poison as a child for example)

It's only devourings who ALSO have high enough mana to be life threatening AND somehow survive the pressure build up (i.e. accidentally do mana compression) that would have magic stone blockage.
Oh and being from a poor family she's not getting enough nutrition either, that's certainly not devouring-limited.

Frieda's case is nowhere near serious as hers, Myne is from both being poor and having a worse case of devouring.
I'm too lazy to go find the chapter but I'm pretty sure in part 1 there's a moment where Myne and Frieda start talking about how frail they are until Lutz has to explain to Frieda that Myne is even more frail than her.

Spoiler: Minor spoilers: Those with the devouring and magic tools

They most certainly do need a mana sink (ie magic tools) to live. It's the entire reason Freida is contracted to a laynoble, and it's the reason a whole host of unnamed devouring soldiers are contracted to various nobles like the one taking Dirk currently. By your logic Frieda, who has needed magic tools pre-baptism, would also be a huge catch for a stronger family just for her mana alone. There would be no chance for a simple laynoble family contracting her as she wouldn't even be a functional mistress since comparable mana levels are important.

Spoiler

Again, only if their mana is high enough to matter.
There are devourings with low enough mana to live as commoner, just as how there's blue priests (noble-born) with low enough mana to impregnate grey priestess.

Frieda isn't a huge catch because her mana is weak, she survived long enough for her family to figure out she's got devouring and get her the magic tool to keep her alive.
Compare this to Dirk who was shown to have very high fever as a baby and needed the tau fruit treatment, and he has the mana of mednoble i.e. higher than Frieda.

It's not 'my logic' you made that argument on, it's your twisted interpretation of what I said.

In fact the series even showed that Myne's mana wasn't 'that' strong early on either, because when her clay tablet got squashed by the children they weren't Crush to death by her fury compare to her being able to cause Temple Head to crumble (and eventual death by Ferdinand's estimate hence his interference) by the time she's past baptism.

Stop thinking everyone has static value of mana, we even got the whole Damuel x Brigitte as not-Myne example.

Spoiler: much later in the story spoilers

If I'm remembering correctly, Philine's brother was only denied their family heirloom for a winter season at most. The real issue with this is not the risk of death but the loss at a chance of becoming a noble. Laynobles especially need to stockpile the mana of their children in order for them to then use during their lessons years later. The step-mother has removed Konrad's mana so that her own child may take his place as the presumptive heir. There are various other tools that can be powered by family members that aren't going to become nobles. This is what Freida's mana is ultimately used for btw. Some of a house's servants (at least for the more wealthy ones) are in fact relatives that didn't make the cut and also didn't get sent to the temple.

Spoiler

So you agree then that if the mana's weak enough the risk of death from lacking the tool is also lower.

 

[HailTheHaleHydrator]

That's even worse point then.

...

it's your twisted interpretation of what I said.

Bro, you're reading some weird things into what I'm writing. Your examples from part three are literally her expending mana... Why you'd think I would say that's bad for her is beyond me... It's absolutely falls in my categorization of activities that reduce the pressure of mana building up in her. I have explained my position thrice now. It feels like you want to argue with me on this point even though we are of the same mind... Recall that I originally brought it up as a counterpoint to the asinine take of Mahtan saying a protagonist should just go around trying to wield their mana in anyway possible right away and somehow learn all the secrets. Doing so in Act 1 would kill our little book gremlin.

You completely missed my point with Frieda. You said, "Devourings with little mana wouldn't really need magic stone/tau fruit to survive to baptism/adulthood." I brought her up because of this. She is known to be roughly laynoble levels in mana and that's why she's going to be a mistress to a laynoble family. She needed tools to survive even though her current mana is relatively weak. So either laynobles and up need tools to survive, or her current mana is a lot stronger than a laynoble. The thrust of my statement was that the latter option can be thown out. We both agree she is, in fact, not a huge catch for a stronger family... I am using her as a baseline to establish that at this level tools are required because that's what the evidence is in the story.

I think we basically agree on everything and your main sticking point is whether those with weak enough devouring can live as commoners. l simply must first say that on this subject you're acting like Mahtan and putting forth ideas without offering proof from the source. We don't see that in the story thus far so, sure, maybe there are people that fall below laynoble levels that can live as commoners. I already said there are those born in noble society that "don't make the cut." If the family is rich enough, some go to the temple. Others are raised as servants and others still likely die. Whether a subset of these from laynoble families and similar level commoners could potentially live without any intervention in regards to their mana is outside the scope of the series. They can't become nobles and aren't that relevant even to the nobles that are gathering devouring soldiers since people with laynoble level mana are already thought of as quite weak. The investment/return for people weaker than that would be even worse. One could argue that they would not be catagorized as having the devouriong at all since their mana is not exceding the limits of their vessel and causing them issues.

Stop thinking everyone has static value of mana

Again... It feels like you just want to argue. We have both been talking about compressing mana, and we both clearly have read material from later parts of the series. That you would even say this rings as disingenuous. I didn't say that nor did I imply that with the things that were written.

I think I have made my points pretty clear and yet you're not following. I didn't set out to have an arguement with anyone (that's why I only replied directly to you in the first place and not Mahtan.) If you still think we don't agree that's your own reading comprehension problem.

 

[WhimsiCat]

You said, "Devourings with little mana wouldn't really need magic stone/tau fruit to survive to baptism/adulthood." I brought her up because of this. She is known to be roughly laynoble levels in mana and that's why she's going to be a mistress to a laynoble family....
I am using her as a baseline to establish that at this level tools are required because that's what the evidence is in the story.

My point was there are mana-holders (noble or devouring) with EVEN LOWER MANA, so you bringing up Frieda was completely missing the level of 'little mana' I was talking about to begin with.
That 'by your logic' was just insulting when you didn't even get the right logic in the first place.

Remember she's marrying 'actual noble' and not just someone born in noble household.

Spoiler

Which means the person would've had to graduate from the academy, so he'd have to go through:
Obtaining schtappe
Mana compression class
Divine protection ceremony

All of which increase his effective mana level.

And she has enough mana to still be compatible with that without having done any of those.

without offering proof from the source.

Might've been lost in my edits, but I'm surprised I even need to bring it up if you know enough about the story ahead to use spoilers.

Spoiler

The story has that ordeal with the grey priestess Lily who got returned to the orphanage because she got pregnant.

You've already brough up that for people to have children, their mana level must be similar.

So:
A blue priest (noble born) got a grey priestess (actual commoner) pregnant.

Which means his mana level must be close to enough to commoner that this can happen.

 

[OrionKaelin]

Her face there is in the wrong genre.
Oh boy...