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Taking aside the weird handling of the lgbt themes (girl is quite a harasser, we need to acknowledge that) OP has only slept 1.5 hours and I'm worried about them. Please take care
I'm in Love with the Villainess - Vol. 2 Ch. 7 - To be a Lily
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All I wanted was to hopefully talk about a yuri manga that isn't just "girls loving girls and being cute for the sake of being cute." Then some commenters arrive with their undies in a twist with imaginary issues about the translator or projecting themselves on the series as a whole. Also the usual self-centred, self-important "I don't like it, I'm here to tell you I won't read it." Clearly you want the attention but do it silently and don't waste our time telling us why you think you're the most important person here.
I'm kinda tempted to read the webnovel but like "Endo and Kobayashi's Live Commentary" I get more satisfaction from the wait. Poor Rei is one of the bigger stepford smilers I've seen in a while and her issues are genuine issues, as the anonymous girls demonstrated.
I'm kinda tempted to read the webnovel but like "Endo and Kobayashi's Live Commentary" I get more satisfaction from the wait. Poor Rei is one of the bigger stepford smilers I've seen in a while and her issues are genuine issues, as the anonymous girls demonstrated.
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@NcatP Miss
is such a grand gay ol' time.
@the_descolada That's exactly right. As a reminder, the protagonists are *very* flawed at the moment. Rae is self-depreciating and in the light novel acknowledges that she's acting in a negative stereotypical manner (she manages that a bit here too but not to the same extent) because she doesn't know how to cope with the perceived reality of "I'm gay and whoever I like is going to be straight and that blows" other than to degrade herself and laugh it off. It's very unhealthy and something she has to grow from.
And let's not get into Claire "Is a bully and a classist tool of the nobility" Francois who only a couple chapters ago tried ejecting Rae from the academy not for being gay but for being a commoner. Only reason Claire is getting a pass at the moment is because Rae is such a biased narrator.
Lily "I am such a massive lesbian my name practically means it" Lilium
@the_descolada That's exactly right. As a reminder, the protagonists are *very* flawed at the moment. Rae is self-depreciating and in the light novel acknowledges that she's acting in a negative stereotypical manner (she manages that a bit here too but not to the same extent) because she doesn't know how to cope with the perceived reality of "I'm gay and whoever I like is going to be straight and that blows" other than to degrade herself and laugh it off. It's very unhealthy and something she has to grow from.
And let's not get into Claire "Is a bully and a classist tool of the nobility" Francois who only a couple chapters ago tried ejecting Rae from the academy not for being gay but for being a commoner. Only reason Claire is getting a pass at the moment is because Rae is such a biased narrator.
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@NinjaGoemon Claire is a product of her time, and that's why she's getting a pass
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@Freiza59 I honestly really needed to hear "It doesn't need to be escalated into any sexual assault to consider it unacceptable behavior" from someone else today. Not even for this manga, lately in real life I've been hearing people I figured would know better downplay sexual harassment and inappropriate behavior as not a big deal, just because it's not as severe as rape. Thank you.
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Someone please tell me character development happen soon please? I really won’t be able to read long with all this negative vibes. Please tell me rei improves soon.
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@immortalartisan I read both volumes and
that's not happening soon. The next major arc is more plot-based to focus on social class politics.
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awesome chapter, very heavy. and how reassuring for rei
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@Freiza59 @Lemongrassv it's not ok, and Rei is guilty of the actions she's taking.
There's reasons for it, and she is still called out later on quite rightly so. She herself (spoilers)
It doesn't excuse her selfish actions but it's certainly not just because of the author's carelessness or condoning of the actions.
There's reasons for it, and she is still called out later on quite rightly so. She herself (spoilers)
is really rather damaged from her experience as a homosexual, and having one of her close friends commit suicide before she isekaied, and is using the sexual harassment almost as an incentive for herself because she's already preparing to give up to make Claire happy.
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@Freiza59 I would like to address the entirety of your comment.
Rei is NOT proving any stereotypes about the LGBT+ community to be true. She might be seen as representative of stereotypes, but they by definition can't be proven true and applied to the community by the actions of one person. Literally the whole point of identifying a stereotype.
Also @Lemongrassv
You are correct that Rei has made plenty of unwelcome advances towards Claire. But it isn't cut and dry; in the beginning Rei was being harassed and bullied, physically and mentally. Her constant upbeat, comedic flirting with Claire could be seen as a defense mechanism, and indeed did put Claire off-balance, usually foiling each attempt at bullying. Importantly, this may have kept Rei's mental health up. Between these two things, I sure as sh*t know which I consider more egregious.
Rei placed herself by Claire's side over her head via Claire's father and made her feelings explicit, and has served Claire loyally. While I agree that advances don't need to be physical to be unacceptable, I think you need to wake up. Serving as Claire's maid under her father's authority is the literal application of Claire's own beliefs in power dynamics, classism, and social hierarchy. Is it Claire's fault for being raised and conditioned to hold those values? No, and that event probably opened her eyes a little. She grudgingly accepted Rei as her maid, and still holds those beliefs although she may have less of a hard-line position. But as long as this is a course of action approved by Claire herself, what right do you have to dictate who serves as Claire's maid? In any case, it is generally socially accepted that a minor's guardian is capable of making such a decision.
Of course ogling Claire was bad, but also reflects the more comedic and lighthearted earlier chapters. The mood *can* change after all, it doesn't have to be static. And to be very frank, these were absolutely NOT "HEAVY" LGBT+ arguements. This was lightly touching upon the subject. And please do not take "the belief that homosexuals will assault someone just because they are gay is a stereotype and is bad" as the author's own argument. While I think we can all agree that it is, in fact, both bad and a stereotype, it is proposed by a character in the same discussion that sees various other ideas about homosexuality put forward and then responded to by Rei, the only character who can be said to most represent the Author's own views, although not necessarily at the present time; just as Rei can grow as a character, the Author probably has grown as a person, with various views at different points in time, and uses Rei to explore some of them.
Anyway, your main objection was presumably that you feel Rei is not a good example by which to discuss the stupidity of stereotypes. While I posit that stereotypes are always stupid, one of said characters clearly feels similarly, and states that *she* wouldn't trust Rei due to past behaviors. However, you then take issue with her criticizing Claire for overreacting to Rei. This again is in the same conversation that sees various thoughts and ideas discussed. Rei herself doesn't claim to have all the answers, and can only speak for her own experiences. So a character feels that Claire overreacted, and you feel differently. This is fine. I don't think the author was pushing said character's lines as her own argument. The author was instead broaching an oft untouched subject, and demonstrated how people have different perspectives on many things.
You mention that you personally dislike all characters who ogle others. Great, if you felt *that* strongly maybe you should have stopped reading back then. It feels weird to find it in the middle of your argument, as though saying "see, I'm not biased against Rei for being a lesbian, I just hate her because she is perverted."
Next, whenever you think you have an unpopular opinion, you probably don't. I'm sure many people identify equally with straight and gay characters. It isn't binary to begin with, there are degrees to which you might identify with a character, or certain aspects of them, or certain portrayals of them.
As for pro-LGBT folk finding this wholesome/relatable, yeah. That's exactly what minority representation in media does. Finding something that discusses issues or values that connect with you on an extremely personal level, is a Big F***ing Deal. Of course it is going to score points. You literally don't even have to identify to Rei in a single way to value the issues at hand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with identifying with Rei either. I highly recommend you think long and hard about this in particular if you would like to better understand where they are coming from. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and all that.
Finally, I believe you imply that characters "cave to pressure" and suddenly experience fundamental changes so as to respond to the other party's feelings. That really, really isn't how this works. Granting exceptions for the fictional works that may truly implement such a device, in this web novel and manga, Claire is just repressed. I stress this again because it is important, we have absolutely no reason to believe that Claire falls in love with Rei for any other reason than loving her.
Well, that was quite a lot.
Rei is NOT proving any stereotypes about the LGBT+ community to be true. She might be seen as representative of stereotypes, but they by definition can't be proven true and applied to the community by the actions of one person. Literally the whole point of identifying a stereotype.
Also @Lemongrassv
You are correct that Rei has made plenty of unwelcome advances towards Claire. But it isn't cut and dry; in the beginning Rei was being harassed and bullied, physically and mentally. Her constant upbeat, comedic flirting with Claire could be seen as a defense mechanism, and indeed did put Claire off-balance, usually foiling each attempt at bullying. Importantly, this may have kept Rei's mental health up. Between these two things, I sure as sh*t know which I consider more egregious.
Rei placed herself by Claire's side over her head via Claire's father and made her feelings explicit, and has served Claire loyally. While I agree that advances don't need to be physical to be unacceptable, I think you need to wake up. Serving as Claire's maid under her father's authority is the literal application of Claire's own beliefs in power dynamics, classism, and social hierarchy. Is it Claire's fault for being raised and conditioned to hold those values? No, and that event probably opened her eyes a little. She grudgingly accepted Rei as her maid, and still holds those beliefs although she may have less of a hard-line position. But as long as this is a course of action approved by Claire herself, what right do you have to dictate who serves as Claire's maid? In any case, it is generally socially accepted that a minor's guardian is capable of making such a decision.
Of course ogling Claire was bad, but also reflects the more comedic and lighthearted earlier chapters. The mood *can* change after all, it doesn't have to be static. And to be very frank, these were absolutely NOT "HEAVY" LGBT+ arguements. This was lightly touching upon the subject. And please do not take "the belief that homosexuals will assault someone just because they are gay is a stereotype and is bad" as the author's own argument. While I think we can all agree that it is, in fact, both bad and a stereotype, it is proposed by a character in the same discussion that sees various other ideas about homosexuality put forward and then responded to by Rei, the only character who can be said to most represent the Author's own views, although not necessarily at the present time; just as Rei can grow as a character, the Author probably has grown as a person, with various views at different points in time, and uses Rei to explore some of them.
Anyway, your main objection was presumably that you feel Rei is not a good example by which to discuss the stupidity of stereotypes. While I posit that stereotypes are always stupid, one of said characters clearly feels similarly, and states that *she* wouldn't trust Rei due to past behaviors. However, you then take issue with her criticizing Claire for overreacting to Rei. This again is in the same conversation that sees various thoughts and ideas discussed. Rei herself doesn't claim to have all the answers, and can only speak for her own experiences. So a character feels that Claire overreacted, and you feel differently. This is fine. I don't think the author was pushing said character's lines as her own argument. The author was instead broaching an oft untouched subject, and demonstrated how people have different perspectives on many things.
You mention that you personally dislike all characters who ogle others. Great, if you felt *that* strongly maybe you should have stopped reading back then. It feels weird to find it in the middle of your argument, as though saying "see, I'm not biased against Rei for being a lesbian, I just hate her because she is perverted."
Next, whenever you think you have an unpopular opinion, you probably don't. I'm sure many people identify equally with straight and gay characters. It isn't binary to begin with, there are degrees to which you might identify with a character, or certain aspects of them, or certain portrayals of them.
As for pro-LGBT folk finding this wholesome/relatable, yeah. That's exactly what minority representation in media does. Finding something that discusses issues or values that connect with you on an extremely personal level, is a Big F***ing Deal. Of course it is going to score points. You literally don't even have to identify to Rei in a single way to value the issues at hand. There is absolutely nothing wrong with identifying with Rei either. I highly recommend you think long and hard about this in particular if you would like to better understand where they are coming from. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes and all that.
Finally, I believe you imply that characters "cave to pressure" and suddenly experience fundamental changes so as to respond to the other party's feelings. That really, really isn't how this works. Granting exceptions for the fictional works that may truly implement such a device, in this web novel and manga, Claire is just repressed. I stress this again because it is important, we have absolutely no reason to believe that Claire falls in love with Rei for any other reason than loving her.
Well, that was quite a lot.
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With this level of context of the chapter we get to see tons of comments here....now yall better be prepared for
and (big spoiler)
the not very soon Rei's past reveals
"ouch our world is doomed thanks to humanity ruining the enviroment with their inventions, so let's make another world with magic as the new life-changing since it's completly non-lethal stuffs and let's model it(the world) based on a fricking dating fantasy game"
