I'm in Love with the Villainess - Vol. 8 Ch. 40 - Dancing Maiden

[recklessribbon]

Thanks for the translation!

 

[AV_AmerigoVespuchi]

That doesn't make any sense because Yu is third in line (at best) and the more time passes the worse her standing gets. Every child from Rod or Thane, no matter the sex, pushes her back in the line of succession. The only reason to "make" her male is to wed her to Lilly so church and royal family are inter-wed and hope that familiar bond somehow translates to future generations.

I don't know how it goes in the LN: But if you want to increase the influence of the church over the royal family there's still a way out: Just make Yu a cardinal and appoint her adviser to the crown. This is how Rome did it, see Thomas Cardinal Wolsey or Cesare Cardinal Borgia; especially Borgia, all the Borgias.

This is one of a few situations where a story element is presented as final, when there's historic precedent otherwise. It's the solution the Queen should've taken first, since it prevents some serious headaches for the royal family.
However, it also would mean that we didn't get the story point of "accept others, no matter who or what they are", which -- in my eyes -- is equally as important, especially given the story that's told.

I did think the Queen had a plan to knock those two out of the succession line... before realizing if the Queen wanted to, she would've done it while they're young. Maybe she's too stupid to see what you've suggested. Maybe the Author aren't deep into European Clergy Politics.

Either way, I do agree with your conclusion that at the end of the day, the point of the story matters as well as how the story goes. I mean, I loved this arc, and this is my first encounter with Trans Affirming Japanese Media. This arc is worth sacrificing some logic at the expense of the Queen.

 

[Ruhrpottpatriot]

Maybe the Author aren't deep into European Clergy Politics.

Probably. Though you can't really talk about renaissance Italy without talking about the Borgias and how they literally broke every rule the church ever raised.

This arc is worth sacrificing some logic at the expense of the Queen.

I think it could've been handled better. Because as it currently stands we have a queen who'd sell her own daughter and a king who knows about it, but doesn't do anything. The same goes for Rod and Thane. They know who Yu really is but chose to do nothing.
I know that court rules are strict and we today only have a faint clue how massive peer pressure was just 60 years ago, let alone 200. However, we don't have not the slightest hint that someone cared for Yu, except Misha, unless you want to contrive a loving mother from the single kiss on the last pages.

 

[toapat]

...Loretta is actually ripped?! why i didn't know that?

Well she is a Knight and a Pianist, and her wife is a violinist. But more accurately the reason is that Loretta and Pepe just arent characters in the main series books and the manga had already adapted through the cafe by that point which is basically where Shes So Cheeky book 1 ends with them because Loretta's fiancé breaks off their engagement so Loretta can be happy with her bubblegum love. Not the the book doesnt cover the chimera and some further conversations with Claire's Imaginary Friend.

the "find a loophole to pardon her" is still on planning phase or even suggestion as the last page shown..

the HMSS operative status is the pardoning. the loophole is that the only hard evidence was the plan terms given to Yu and that got burned so the only evidence is Salas's word against the princess'. And everyone else is claiming its Yu's plan. Even with Salas being able to point purgery at Rod, since Rod was in the same discussion as Salas, All they can make stick is that Rae somehow knows about a church artifact that she shouldnt. and the second The Pope and Rae are in the same room the Prosecution becomes a complete farce.

Agreed. Also, I'm curious to see if one or both elements from the LN retelling Claire's side of events will make it into the manga, this arc.

Claire's PoV chapters are basically critical to the Fires of Revolution story.

 

[Manchura]

I did think the Queen had a plan to knock those two out of the succession line... before realizing if the Queen wanted to, she would've done it while they're young. Maybe she's too stupid to see what you've suggested. Maybe the Author aren't deep into European Clergy Politics.

Either way, I do agree with your conclusion that at the end of the day, the point of the story matters as well as how the story goes. I mean, I loved this arc, and this is my first encounter with Trans Affirming Japanese Media. This arc is worth sacrificing some logic at the expense of the Queen.

I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that succession was based on power and merit, with them being placed in the order based on those criteria and due to in game plot, nothing really changed in the order...but an in universe character wouldn't have that understanding

 

[Manchura]

What are you talking about? I have read all the novels and what you said makes no sense. BTW, I was talking about the this chapter

the...the queen turned her daughter into a guy to create an heir specifically to gain traction for her political faction, aka transitioning her kid for personal gain

if that makes no sense to you I don't think much else is going to get through

 

[Ruhrpottpatriot]

Claire's PoV chapters are basically critical to the Fires of Revolution story.

So, when should I read the spinnoff? After Vol.2 or somewhere in the middle?

 

[toapat]

So, when should I read the spinnoff? After Vol.2 or somewhere in the middle?

I read it in parallel with the first book, finishing Commoner 1 Before Villainess 1 because theres alot of conversation with Claire's imaginary friend* that happen after Lenee's exile but before manaria's letter. i assume commoner 2 parallels with Manaria through The Revolution and Book 3 handles the bonus chapters up through the first half of book 3, since the series really doesnt benefit from the Revo-Lily story. the otome game the protagonist is in being a heaping pile of shit is better done in Villainess lvl 99 then in the second arc of IILWtV

you can elect to skip Interlude: Dole in Commoner 1 if you want, since knowing how Rae successfully blackmailed Dole isnt important.

*Officially Catherine Achard does exist, but her stated primary magical talent is invisibility and having been subject to accidental amputation is a paranoid shutin who only talks to her personal maid and Claire and just cloaks herself if anyone else comes in. The Anime also didnt include a wheelchair mysteriously showing up in Claire's room unexplained later in the season despite the fact they were adapting both Villainess and Commoner chapters, taking Claire's dialogue from Commoner and Rae's from Villainess. Further unlike Pepe and Loretta, Catherine isnt at the wedding. Considering both Rae and Claire's personalities, even with The Twins by that point, they would be trying to help Catherine find a life in a post-Monarchy society, like how Claire was helping Lorette and Pepe. Catherine seems to be a projection of Claire's survivor's guilt and her hatred of her status as nobility, with Catherine being a bastard daughter of her house's traditional enemies.

 

[Frostflame3]

THIS IS EVERYTHING I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR AND MORE

 

[SrNevik]

I read it in parallel with the first book, finishing Commoner 1 Before Villainess 1 because theres alot of conversation with Claire's imaginary friend* that happen after Lenee's exile but before manaria's letter. i assume commoner 2 parallels with Manaria through The Revolution and Book 3 handles the bonus chapters up through the first half of book 3, since the series really doesnt benefit from the Revo-Lily story. the otome game the protagonist is in being a heaping pile of shit is better done in Villainess lvl 99 then in the second arc of IILWtV

you can elect to skip Interlude: Dole in Commoner 1 if you want, since knowing how Rae successfully blackmailed Dole isnt important.

*Officially Catherine Achard does exist, but her stated primary magical talent is invisibility and having been subject to accidental amputation is a paranoid shutin who only talks to her personal maid and Claire and just cloaks herself if anyone else comes in. The Anime also didnt include a wheelchair mysteriously showing up in Claire's room unexplained later in the season despite the fact they were adapting both Villainess and Commoner chapters, taking Claire's dialogue from Commoner and Rae's from Villainess. Further unlike Pepe and Loretta, Catherine isnt at the wedding. Considering both Rae and Claire's personalities, even with The Twins by that point, they would be trying to help Catherine find a life in a post-Monarchy society, like how Claire was helping Lorette and Pepe. Catherine seems to be a projection of Claire's survivor's guilt and her hatred of her status as nobility, with Catherine being a bastard daughter of her house's traditional enemies.

Have you read all of the She's so Cheeky Novels?

Spoiler: Spoiler for SSCC

Your comments on Catherine seem incomplete, or missing information. I wouldn't call her imaginary at all. She definitely exists and there's reasons for all of what you mentioned. Others have seen her and know of her as well.

 

[carbonflight]

Rei is now a member of MI6. Congratulations Rei

 

[TanyaTheEvil]

the...the queen turned her daughter into a guy to create an heir specifically to gain traction for her political faction, aka transitioning her kid for personal gain

if that makes no sense to you I don't think much else is going to get through

I was not talking about that, what you originally said had no bearing on what you just said now. and I what I originally said before. Next time express yourself more specifically

 

[toapat]

Have you read all of the She's so Cheeky Novels?

Spoiler

Your comments on Catherine seem incomplete, or missing information. I wouldn't call her imaginary at all. She definitely exists and there's reasons for all of what you mentioned. Others have seen her and know of her as well.

only commoner book 1 has been published, translated, and published, so no. In book 1 beyond the Festival Recital shes literally a ghost as far as anyone is concerned.

the manga artist and the anime both deigned to include the wheelchair in any shots of Claire's room. The anime might be able to say the chair is just at the desk since we never see the desk chairs after the wheelchair is manufactured, but weve definitely seen enough of claire's room after it arrived in the manga to know Catherine is MIA.

Calling her Claire's Imaginary Friend feels the most concise to describe her.

 

[SrNevik]

only commoner book 1 has been published, translated, and published, so no. In book 1 beyond the Festival Recital shes literally a ghost as far as anyone is concerned.

the manga artist and the anime both deigned to include the wheelchair in any shots of Claire's room. The anime might be able to say the chair is just at the desk since we never see the desk chairs after the wheelchair is manufactured, but weve definitely seen enough of claire's room after it arrived in the manga to know Catherine is MIA.

Calling her Claire's Imaginary Friend feels the most concise to describe her.

There's more than 1 LN for SSCC, so what I said wasn't a guess, that's why I made it a spoiler. The LNs are also directly based on the web novels that have been done for a while. I also think you should spoiler tag these discussions. They're going into a lot.

 

[toapat]

There's more than 1 LN for SSCC, and I already corrected that stuff for you. That's why I made it a spoiler.

I can understand that. i stopped reading chapter by chapter translations after i tortured myself with google translate attempting to handle saving 80k gold. Checking those web chapters against the published novel, Claire and Catherine are completely different characters and the editing is extreme to reach the version that was published in the material im referencing.

Maybe she has interaction with the Non-claire canon cast in commoner 2/3 but those arent in english yet. Until april 24th, shes Claire's imaginary friend specifically because she only interacts with Claire and doesnt show up in book 2. Especially considering Duke Achard is one of the targets for Rae and Claire's embezzelment investigation.

 

[SrNevik]

I can understand that. i stopped reading chapter by chapter translations after i tortured myself with google translate attempting to handle saving 80k gold. Checking those web chapters against the published novel, Claire and Catherine are completely different characters and the editing is extreme to reach the version that was published in the material im referencing.

Maybe she has interaction with the Non-claire canon cast in commoner 2/3 but those arent in english yet. Until april 24th, shes Claire's imaginary friend specifically because she only interacts with Claire and doesnt show up in book 2. Especially considering Duke Achard is one of the targets for Rae and Claire's embezzelment investigation.

This will be my last message on this. Don't want to extend this too much, since it's off topic.

Spoiler

I've already let you know that she is not imaginary. I've also explained that there is an explanation for her seeming lack of presence in book 2 (by book 2, I'm assuming you mean the main series). Catherine has a big role in the story as an actual character. She's real. There's not much else to say beyond that. Catherine and Claire are also not different characters in the SSCC LNs. The chapters match up almost 1-to-1 between web and LN. Inori doesn't normally change much from web novels to LNs. There also might only be 1 LN in English but all 3 are out in Japanese.

 

[toapat]

no.

im literally plugging keywords and references into searches of the Ebooks. Catherine isnt in the original 5 books.

 

[SrNevik]

im literally plugging keywords and references into searches of the Ebooks. Catherine isnt in the original 5 books.

Yes? I know that. You're kind of ignoring what I'm saying here, or maybe I'm not being clear somehow.

Spoiler

I already explained that there is a reason for her absence that will be explained in the She's So Cheeky novels. The original 5 books are also from Rei's POV anyway. She's not imaginary. I don't know how else to say it. I think I'm being pretty straightforward. I'm only explaining this because you were mistakenly misinforming someone else. Besides that, it's not a big deal.

 

[BanzaiYuri]

Uhhh, well damn? Good to see Misha x Yu go well, displeasing that Lilly is still here and relevant. Secret Service officer, huh... Why..?

 

[ixangel]

im literally plugging keywords and references into searches of the Ebooks. Catherine isnt in the original 5 books.

Catherine is a real character and has interacted with other chars also. If I recall correctly in the main novel there were mentions of “a mysterious someone that’s Claire’s roommate”.

As for why she’s nowhere to be found in the main novels:

Spoiler

Catherine wiped her existence from everyone’s memories, except her maid, before leaving Bauer for good.