Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi o Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 43 - The Pride of the Lecturing Girls

[peortega1]

In the end he is nothing without a girl on his side. Which I guess is fine? There are women who like those but as a story its ehh I dont know its an irritating character.

Yes, exactly all these Maruto male characters. And exactly like Yuu Izumi.
All these boys are serious cases of CO-DEPENDENCY. Even Tomoya recognizes at the end of Saekano he literally NEEDS Megumi to live. In the case of Ayami, she literally ended being the BOYFRIEND of Takamura.
There are several reasons why I have been several posts saying Taa-kun is literally this boy only with the surname changed. And "Yami-senpai" is Ai Kamiya with the name ligerally changed.
Yuu Takamura in all his glory, guys:

 

[peortega1]

Might be the case, but how would it explain why Hikari is still acting listless to the point of not talking at all (as said in the previous chapter)?

The friends themselves say in the web novel, not? Hikari considers the Yami disappear as an emergency and wants to hold her friends outside from all this, and probably this is the reason why Yuu didn´t want to talk with them until after confirm they are worried by "Aya-chan" too
All you are basically assuming Hikari is not in mode Setsuna in last chapter of White Album 2 "we have to save Kazusa-chan! Haruki we have to do something, we cannot let she leaves Japan!"
Of course, Hikari and Yuu having their conversation of the train to Narita airport doesn´t magically fix everything.
And of course, Yami doesn´t deserve anyone of both, but all you are assuming generously Hikari is not even more affected than Yuu by her savior complex, accepting even all the thing of Yami trying to whoring her with an old man in the first days of her "friendship". Yami definitely treated much better to Yuu as girlfriend than to Hikari as best friend.

 

[peortega1]

Think it's interesting he's straight up admits he'll be omitting parts, but then the brief recap we get seems to basically tell everything we've seen I'm guessing the parts that he omitted (assuming he did omit parts) is stuff we haven't seen yet like events that happened between now and after the shit show

As I said, I believe Yuu omitted all the sex parts, but Haru definitely realized Yuu was the male MC from the detailed sex stories of Yami, the boy who described Yami as a so careful and loving girlfriend definitely had to be the boy who Yami had sex, and the reason why she is not already considered "pure" in her school

 

[fflogschampion]

I wonder if it's a translation/missing nuance thing? I interpreted it as Yuu thinking of Hikari as invulnerable/Teflon. Admittedly projecting a bit here, "and therefore Hikari doesn't need him but Aya does".

It's some comment adjacent to friendzoning, implying that it's hard to promote a friendship to a romantic relationship compared to starting with romance then building trust.

 

[peortega1]

Yuu didn't push Yami off, Yuu is defending Yami after she broke his heart and ruined a future romance

As he said in the novel omake chapters, and Hikari probably thinks thus too, "the pain and sorrow of Yami-senpai is much more serious than mine and would be disrespectful toward her even compare them"
And not, he is not exactly defending Yami or pushing off her, he is only saying nobody had the fault of nothing. And anyway, he is the only real victim of Yami, he is definitely right about Yami didn´t owing nothing to Hikari beyond her own words to Hikari promising supporting her with "Taa-kun" (whose Yuu didn´t know)

he's not reaching out to Hikari at all and making excuses

Source: 404 Not Found
Again is not nothing confirmed if he reached Hikari, he managed to talk to Hikari or even if he tried to reaching out her at least. Seeing his attitude, securely he at least tried to talk with her and thinks the ball is in her side now.
Media literacy, guys, media literacy.

He's not too good for anyone and at this point should hit the gym and study harder cus no one deserves a limp dick loser like him.

Other person who I recommend very strongly never see White Album 2 and/or Saekano. Believe, Yuu is an alpha male compared with Aki Tomoya and Haruki Kitahara -my avatar-

 

[habla]

"Everyone is at fault, yet no one is at the same time" that's a weird way of saying Hikari is the only one not at fault.

And before anyone starts, the only thing she could be at fault for is not confessing sooner.

she can't be at fault for that, she didn't like him at the time. she couldn't have confessed before yuu became a fuckboy

 

[peortega1]

How would she know if there's even anything to ask if he doesn't tell her anything? Should she be asking him, "are you dating anyone at the moment"? How frequently does she need to be performing this temperature check?

At least she could talk seriously with him about it after she saw him with Seki, and yes, Hikari asks him for Seki in chapter 18, but only because he mentioned Seki by his own initiative with her.
She definitely noticed signals about Yuu having an ex-girlfriend, she herself says several times in her PoV chapters... and never asked nothing. Not once time. Her only real attempt was in chapter 18, a little just before the cultural festival and after months planning to confess "Taa-kun".

Her fault is letting him believe he can get away with (yet another) lie?

Whose another LIES Yuu said? Even if he ommited things, he never lied to Hikari, except the thing of the "dead phone". And yes, she is guilty too to lie Yuu about why she felt bad, that was the moment to mention the Ayami´s kiss, when precisely she claims the high moral ground of "I hate liars" a few minutes later.

So Yuu reserves the right to lie to his alleged best friend and sweetheart

Again, he didn´t lie. He only holded for himself parts of his private life, but he never lied to Hikari. Hikari also holded parts of her life from him, I mean, the guy didn´t ever see even a photo of Hikari with "Aya-chan" and definitely doesn´t know about things as the attempt of Ayami to whoring Hikari in chapter 33.

and so it is Hikari who's in the wrong for being lied to and expecting anything different? For all the talk about misandry, that does seem awfully misogynistic.

As I said, both failed after the Ayami kiss. Yuu had to talk AFTER discover Hikari not only already met Yami but she was her best friend too, and Hikari had to ask him about the kiss if she was so bothered. Even more when he proposed return to home and she insisted to go to the dance.
And anyway, is not Yuu who claimed the high moral ground of "I hate liars". This is not misogyny.

Well I am glad then that there's no more expectation that Hikari was under the obligation to intervene.

Only if you accept Yuu was not forced to say nothing about his private life to a girl who didn´t even show real interest by his academical future and his worries about them being separated in high school.
And as I said, Hikari was under the obligation to intervene only AFTER the slap. This is the point where the thing passed to a private re-meeting between ex-boyfriend and ex-girlfriend to gender-based violence and SA.
Not as the love interest of Yuu, but as his childhood friend who supossely always defended him. And IMO, this is one of the reasons why Hikari defends "Taa-kun" in chapter 41 before Yami. She is starting to realize why Yuu was acting so rare and how he hided something... Hikari is starting to realize why she saw Yami slapping Yuu and that was not exactly a happy and intimate re-encounter.

As a part of the conversation they were having, it is, and so is the kiss you're omitting. Neither Yuu nor Ayami wanted Hikari or anyone else to be there, so it is by definition an intimate moment.

Because Yuu didn´t consent the kiss, so, very beautiful you here blaming the SA victim. Definitely after the slap, Yuu would be very grateful if Hikari entered in the room to save him, as the supossed best childhood friend she was.
Again, zero media literacy.

 

[peortega1]

she can't be at fault for that, she didn't like him at the time. she couldn't have confessed before yuu became a fuckboy

Yes, that is the point, she is at fault about never taking seriously the feelings of Yuu noticed by all their middle school or even notice them and give him an appropiated response even if securely would was a rejection. Even Hikari herself recognizes in chapter 17 when finally Yuu talks with her about his failure to get the exam in her school.
She sent him unawarely to the brotherzone and this is the reason why he ended falling in the arms of Ayami.
Also, Yuu never was a "fuckboy", he just had ONE girlfriend and never asked sex to her, was Yami always who started all the sexual meetings, he seemed very glad to have dates with her and being finally loved by a girlfriend who he could holding hands and kissing -horrible sins, we know-.

 

[peortega1]

ETA: Basically this

Yes, because Hikari definitely doesn´t feel the same savior and heroine complex towards "Aya-chan" to a levels much worse than Yuu´s.

 

[peortega1]

Doesn't matter how obv it is nor if the entire school knows if the person itself doesn't see it. He wasn't and couldn't be direct as he was insecure, which is normal for teens.

Of course. But the point is Hikari definitely failed to doesn´t notice nothing from Yuu where all the school saw it. Even if he couldn´t be direct, he definitely was very bad trying to hiding his feelings. Definitely she was so a social butterfly girl and too ingenuous to do it. And this is her first big fail.

Yeah and as I said, hikari didnt notice this change and that's one of her faults. But its not as affecting on their situation as the other 2s' faults, both lying and manipulating.

Yes, that is the point, Yuu never lied or manipulated, his only real lie is the thing of the "dead phone" after the Judas kiss from Ayami.

Hikari probably noticed that both yami and yuu care for each other, maybe even love still, that's why he said he didn't like liars when he confessed to him.

Yes, she noticed them, but is still a idiotity she called Yuu a "liar". And yes, a boy can loves two girls at the same time, even more if he is secure one of those girls never reciprocates him and for that he accepted being the boyfriend of Ayami, trying to get over Hikari, only to fail after being dumped and heartbroken by Yami.
And yes, precisely Hikari has to understand very well how Yuu is able to love both her and Yami at the same time, because she felt the same towards both -and this is the reason why the real pain for her during the Judas kiss is not Yuu having an ex-girlfriend in her school who he wanted to avoid, but that girl being precisely "Aya-chan"-.

And whose fault is it? Yami's.

Take note that the entire plan on their festival was for her to confess. She stopped or even gave way because of yami. Yuu only confessed because he finally had the perfect situation and opportunity HIKARI MADE and the push YAMI GAVE.

Congrats, the boy who Hikari and Ayami both said from him about being a coward and a submissive boy so many times, ended being a coward and submissive boy.

Honestly you're just making me see yuu's faults even more. He had no development, still insecure that's why he clings more to yami who's weaker than him while putting hikari on this very high pedestal

But yes, is part from the Yuu personality he will be always the submissive boy from the relationship, like Yuu Izumi, his original base character. Takamura is the Expy of Izumi to even comical levels. And of course, the other Maruto male MCs, like Tomoya and Haruki, never left to be the submissive boyfriends of their relationships -this is the reason why Eriri NEVER WON in Saekano-.
And Hikari suffers from the same problems to be submissive, initiativeless and not assertive, but of course, she is a girl, so, in her is more tolerated.
Anyway, Yuu had a development and in general he recognizes his failures and learned to be much more open with Hikari -and Hikari too improved a lot her friendship with her and recognized she failed to doesn´t care in its moment about Yuu feelings towards she going to other different school-

 

[story645]

Yes, because Hikari definitely doesn´t feel the same savior and heroine complex towards "Aya-chan" to a levels much worse than Yuu´s.

do you think the story actually showed us why she values it so much?

Seems like a bad case of I can fix it? like Aya is the stray cat she's adopted and nursed back to health. Which would explain why Hikari is still pushing so hard post crash out - Aya is her project dammit & she's gonna see her project through.

she'd honestly probably deserve the shit she'd get from them

Yes but Hikari loves her to an unhealthy co-dependent degree so 🙃

 

[peortega1]

True, true, story645, I got confused from user, my respond was to kiero13
And yes, this unhealthy co-dependency is, IMO, the reason why Hikari can be empathetic with the feelings of Yuu towards Yami, because she has them too, in her role as an Expy from Setsuna Ogiso from White Album 2.
And her bother is more about Yuu didn´t telling her about the kiss than other thing, IMO this is the reason why I believe she looked Yuu or he looked Hikari to talk and reach at least an agreement.
Also, Yami would be very disappointing as villain if she is still needing hold Yuu and Hikari uncommunicated to be able to play against them.
And yes, is the reason too I am seeing Hikari being able to accept the polyamory ending if Yuu proposes it to her and Yami definitely thought in to make it too.

 

[GennArc]

The friends themselves say in the web novel, not? Hikari considers the Yami disappear as an emergency and wants to hold her friends outside from all this, and probably this is the reason why Yuu didn´t want to talk with them until after confirm they are worried by "Aya-chan" too

They also say that

...Her hollowed-out aura is so intense that even we hesitate to ask.

So she is obviously still deeply shocked, no matter if it's her conscious decision not discuss their private matter or not.

 

[UdenEmpati]

I agree with most of what you wrote, but when you say "repeating his past mistakes of just simply assuming she's fine", what are you referring to? When did he do it before?

I mean that Yuu is falling into the same pattern of behavior from the end of primary school/into middle school, where he was idolizing Hikari to the extent that he almost saw her as without flaw, to the point that he seems to not even consider that she might in fact be hurting, and doesn't appear to even spare a passing thought in vocalizing that he's thinking of her in this situation.

She just had to go through watching her crush kissing her best friend, only for said crush to come out and confess to her saying he's loved her for years, on top of lying about where he'd been previously.
She just had a huge falling out with the best friend over all of this, who she knows is a damaged, hurting person, prone to self-destructing instead of seeking help.

It would be weirder if Hikari was perfectly fine and didn't need his concern, much less would want to hear that he was concerned for her, as they have been close for years.

But, Yuu doesn't voice anything whatsoever. The only thing he says directly relating to Hikari in this chapter is in response to Haru talking about how Hikari's not the kind of girl to go blabbing about boys to her friends, and all he says is "As expected, Hikari's always the cool one".

He still is treating her like an ideal, and not like a person. It's the same pattern as before, the same mistake as before, that lead to him convincing himself he's not worthy of her, and contributed to things ending up as they have over the span of years.

 

[mgRdr]

At least she could talk seriously with him about it after she saw him with Seki, and yes, Hikari asks him for Seki in chapter 18, but only because he mentioned Seki by his own initiative with her.
She definitely noticed signals about Yuu having an ex-girlfriend, she herself says several times in her PoV chapters... and never asked nothing. Not once time. Her only real attempt was in chapter 18, a little just before the cultural festival and after months planning to confess "Taa-kun".

One. Hikari did not know for sure whether he had an ex-girlfriend, she was at most suspecting it.
Two. Yuu decided to keep it a private matter from her, because it intrinsically is a private matter, so unless he did speak up about it - like he did about Seki - he didn't give her the right to pry into it, and so she obliged.

he never lied to Hikari

but he never lied to Hikari

except the thing of the "dead phone"

Yeah, and also the thing where he "got lost", which was totally not him kissing another girl. He lied to her minutes before he confessed to her, and his confession also had a lie in it.
Meanwhile her lie?

Hikari, you seem awfully calm...
Really? You're just overthinking it, aren't you?

Unforgivable. /s

that was the moment to mention the Ayami´s kiss

Exactly, that was the moment for Yuu to mention Aya's kiss, that was the moment for Yuu to come clean about what has occurred - and then confess with clear conscience.
Hikari gave him a hidden choice - either he comes clean about everything, and they'll see where their relationship goes after that, maybe they become a couple - or he doesn't tell her anything, Hikari plays along with his lie, and they continue their relationship of "chieldhood friends" where he's not compelled to tell Hikari about anything but the most menial things. The moron decided to confess instead.
It was not as conscious on Hikari's part, but it is what it boils down to - she was trying to salvage the status quo, and that's why she didn't bring anything up.

And anyway, is not Yuu who claimed the high moral ground of "I hate liars"

It is not a competition of who has a higher moral ground, it is Yuu being told why he just got rejected - because he's a liar.

Hikari also holded parts of her life from him

the guy didn´t ever see even a photo of Hikari with "Aya-chan"

That certainly is equally as secretive as the guy hiding the fact that he was fucking another girl for half a year.

and definitely doesn´t know about things as the attempt of Ayami to whoring Hikari in chapter 33.

You wouldn't happen to have a proof of that?

to a girl who didn´t even show real interest by his academical future and his worries about them being separated in high school

The manga explicitly tells us that he purposefully hid both his academic performance and his worries about being separated from her.

gender-based violence and SA

Ah yes, the most grasping-at-the-straws argument in this discussion.

Yuu would be very grateful if Hikari entered in the room to save him, as the supossed best childhood friend she was.

Yuu would be happy to let the girl he's about to confess to know that he was in a steamy and turbulent relationship with her best friend, and he was hiding this relationship from her for more than a year. That's why, once he escaped from Yami's clutches and found Hikari, he immediately told her about the fact that he
checks notes
was made a victim of gender-based violence and sexual assault.
Yuu would also be happy to be emascualted saved by the girl he was trying to impress for years.
Please tell me more about media literacy.

 

[GennArc]

I mean that Yuu is falling into the same pattern of behavior from the end of primary school/into middle school, where he was idolizing Hikari to the extent that he almost saw her as without flaw, to the point that he seems to not even consider that she might in fact be hurting, and doesn't appear to even spare a passing thought in vocalizing that he's thinking of her in this situation.

He still is treating her like an ideal, and not like a person. It's the same pattern as before, the same mistake as before, that lead to him convincing himself he's not worthy of her, and contributed to things ending up as they have over the span of years.

I mean, this whole idolizing/putting her on pedestal part only comes from his own words. We've never really seen it in his actions or decisions. You might argue he never confessed to her because of "thinking he was not worthy of her", but from his POV chapters we've seen that he just realized she didn't care about him romantically.
So, after all, I don't think he ever made the mistake of "treating her like an ideal, not like a person" and consecutively of "not considering she might be hurt".

 

[peortega1]

They also say that

So she is obviously still deeply shocked, no matter if it's her conscious decision not discuss their private matter or not.

Of course. As I said, Hikari and Yuu having their equivalent from this conversation of Haruki and Setsuna in the train to Narita airport obviously didn´t fix magically everything. Probably only made them cry even more.
But at least finally they are sincere by the other one and they should be able to join the pieces by themselves and Yami has to work to separate them and screw up once again, like Kazusa did in the airport.
This is the scene for the people who doesn´t know. Minutes 5:10-12:40:

 

[Gothic_Catalyst]

Thank you for the chapter.

 

[peortega1]

One. Hikari did not know for sure whether he had an ex-girlfriend, she was at most suspecting it.
Two. Yuu decided to keep it a private matter from her, because it intrinsically is a private matter, so unless he did speak up about it - like he did about Seki - he didn't give her the right to pry into it, and so she obliged.

Exactly. He is not more guilty or dishonest with Hikari than she is with Yuu. Both hided things from the other one and precisely the Arc of Hikari is about her REPAIRING her friendship with Yuu to be able to build a romantic relationship with him.

Yeah, and also the thing where he "got lost", which was totally not him kissing another girl. He lied to her minutes before he confessed to her, and his confession also had a lie in it.

His confession was not a lie. He really always loved Hikari. Other thing is him being a indecisive between Ayami and Hikari, and even this "two-timing" is almost fully accidental.
But, yes, he lied about "I got lost because my phone died", and this is the reason why he thinks "I am the worst" in the web novel just after the Hikari rejection.
And not, he was not "kissing another girl", he was being SA´ed by other girl, he definitely didn´t consent the kiss and Hikari knows it, because she saw the slap.

Meanwhile her lie?
Unforgivable. /s

I am meaning this scene, fool: https://mangadex.org/chapter/5ad1b611-f902-45ee-abde-b62ae4374f76/6

"Please don´t be so down, Hikari"
"Here is an after party happening at the gym right now. It is not over yet, no?

She is not a saintess who never lied in the most minimum to being claiming the moral high ground position. And precisely she starting to realize this is the reason why she DEFENDS Yuu before Yami in chapter 41.
Here is the point she let Yuu believed she brought his "little lie" about the "dead phone" and of course, he would believe she didn´t see nothing about "Aya-chan" and him.
And you are who says Yuu is the "unforgivable" here.

Exactly, that was the moment for Yuu to mention Aya's kiss, that was the moment for Yuu to come clean about what has occurred - and then confess with clear conscience.
Hikari gave him a hidden choice - either he comes clean about everything, and they'll see where their relationship goes after that, maybe they become a couple - or he doesn't tell her anything, Hikari plays along with his lie, and they continue their relationship of "chieldhood friends" where he's not compelled to tell Hikari about anything but the most menial things. The moron decided to confess instead.

Yes, exactly, Yuu was a fool teenager who decided "I confess now or I won´t be able to confess ever" even being aware "Yami-senpai" was the best friend of Hikari in this point. There are good human reasons why he didn´t want to talk in this point, but he failed here, and Hikari failed too -even if the most responsible of the two is Yuu in this confession-. Again, the boy is a teenager who was literally SA´ed and mistreated by his ex-girlfriend just 50 minutes ago.
And yes, there is a reason why Yuu wanted to return home in chap 36 (to cry more for Yami, securely) and Hikari insisted to go to the dance.

It was not as conscious on Hikari's part, but it is what it boils down to - she was trying to salvage the status quo, and that's why she didn't bring anything up.
It is not a competition of who has a higher moral ground, it is Yuu being told why he just got rejected - because he's a liar.

He was a liar in that exact moment after Yami slapping and robbed kiss. Not before. This is the reason why in the WN he recognizes he screwed up in that point and thinks about himself: "I am the worst"... other thing he shares with Haruki Kitahara... and Yuu Izumi.
But before his re-encounter totally unexpected with "Aya-chan", he definitely didn´t lie in the most minimum.

That certainly is equally as secretive as the guy hiding the fact that he was fucking another girl for half a year.

Considering that girl ended being precisely the girl who fucked Yuu for that half a year, yes, definitely it was very secretive. At least makes sense Yuu doesn´t want to talk about his private sexual life with Hikari -by the same reason why Yuu feels shame for her seeing him naked-, but Hikari doesn´t have any reason to don´t even show a photo of her best friend "Aya-chan" to "Taa-kun".
Even more when, do you know, Yuu could be end in jail if is discovered Yami and him were to a love hotel being minors.

You wouldn't happen to have a proof of that?

Yuu reaction when he realizes "Aya-chan" is "Yami-senpai" in chapter 40. Definitely the stories of Hikari about "Aya-chan" didn´t include "she almost whored me with an old pedophile man".

The manga explicitly tells us that he purposefully hid both his academic performance and his worries about being separated from her.

The manga says us he TRIED to hid both his academic performance and his worries and FAILED, she didn´t notice nothing is just because Hikari was an asexual naive girl. Hikari in chapter 17 recognizes she had to be more interested and mattered about Yuu future as her supposed best childhood friend and practically apologizes to him because that reason.

Ah yes, the most grasping-at-the-straws argument in this discussion.

You persist with your mysandria.

That's why, once he escaped from Yami's clutches and found Hikari, he immediately told her about the fact that he
checks notes
was made a victim of gender-based violence and sexual assault.

You are still blaming the SA victim. Precisely the gender-based violence and sexual assault are not the people more disposed to tell happily about their traumatic experiences just after these happened. Even more if Hikari didn´t ask directly to him and she was expecting he was able to read her mind.

Yuu would also be happy to be emascualted saved by the girl he was trying to impress for years.
Please tell me more about media literacy.

Exactly, you don´t know nothing about media literacy, Jon Snow. Yuu was trying to impress Hikari because he knows she doesn´t want to be his dominatrix girlfriend, so, he tries by other way to get close to her. But he definitely wanted an assertive and dominant girlfriend (and Hikari DOESNT WANT to be the dominant GF of nobody) and the manga lefts very clear Ayami gave him the things Hikari never could or wanted give to him.
Ayami Arc left very clear Yuu was very happy being the submissive of Yami, with Ayami being THE BOYFRIEND OF THIS RELATIONSHIP. The guy likes strong women and his initial crush for Hikari was definitely he believing she was one of this kind of girls -and she definitely has that tomboyish athletic girl energy-

 

[UdenEmpati]

I mean, this whole idolizing/putting her on pedestal part only comes from his own words. We've never really seen it in his actions or decisions. You might argue he never confessed to her because of "thinking he was not worthy of her", but from his POV chapters we've seen that he just realized she didn't care about him romantically.
So, after all, I don't think he ever made the mistake of "treating her like an ideal, not like a person" and consecutively of "not considering she might be hurt".

If what you're saying is true and the whole "she's out of my league" is purely Yuu's own internal justification and that his choice to clam up and never bring up his feelings for her is because he unilaterally assumes she never saw him romantically at the time, then fine. I think that's a bit of a cop-out, because this whole saga spans multiple years of time and it's clear that feelings and context change between the three of them, but I'm not going to get bogged down reading the entire series twice over again to make a point that is, honestly, not even relevant to my initial claim.

That is - Yuu's decision to not voice any concern over Hikari to her two friends in this chapter, was noteworthy enough that those two friends even made a point of highlighting it at the end.

You initially said that you agreed with most of everything else I wrote, but picked out one part that wasn't really all that important to my thesis in the first place, so I'll just let you have the final word here, so as not to get wrapped up in lateral debates over who felt and said and did what at which point in the timeline.