Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi wo Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 32 - She called me an idiot!

[story645]

. And did you forget the fireworks chapter, when Yami was thinking about how she hate the crowd, but saying that everything will be fine when Yuu is with her?

That's the chapter that makes me most sad for her actually, b/c she admits that she's very serious about him and would've happily done all these "normal couple things" that she told him she didn't want to. And she thinks that Yuu was too stupid to catch on. I think he kinda caught on, since he said you're lying again/you're always lying, but wasn't willing to call her out on it. I agree that she loves him - I just don't think a love where she feels she can't be honest with him is healthy or particularly good for either of them.

Meanwhile, we have Hikari, she umm...

Yeah, Aya slept w/ him immediately, but then couldn't tell him that no really she'd like a normal date please, which Hikari got cause she asked for what she wanted. I think the dates are what Aya regrets b/c it's what she's thinking of when the relationship dies and not "oh, his kisses made me feel so good"

Since we've been talking about depression, you probably know how much energy it takes to constantly be on - put on that shiny happy everything is awesome and wonderful and there are no problems at all none what-so-ever face and attitude. And like imagine doing that for months b/c you don't want the person you most love in the world to see the mess underneath. What I can tell you is that the people who can actually help are the ones you let see the mess - which that's what I'm wondering, is that how the Hikari part of the arc plays out, going by Aya being comfortable enough w/ her friends to invite them to her home and tell em about the mistresses.

ETA: but also, and forgive me if this is a gross mischaracterization, but it feels like the answer to my "why do folks think this was healthy" is that they're kinda self inserting into Yuu and for the most part things seem great from his (explicitly non-existant) PoV.

 

[ComNguoi]

ETA: but also, and forgive me if this is a gross mischaracterization, but it feels like the answer to my "why do folks think this was healthy" is that they're kinda self inserting into Yuu and for the most part things seem great from his (explicitly non-existant) PoV.

I read your reply but too lazy to make an answer to each of your reply. But idk why you immediately thought about physical activities like having sex when I said "Yami did a lot with him...". They literally tell the others about their problems (maybe not all but at least the majority of it) when they were in the hotel the first time. After that they went to date and etc... Compared that to Hikari and after 20 chapters, we have this some sort of a date I guess??

Like aren't you the one with the dirty mind here tho tbh? Just so you know, I dont feel related to Yuu at all lmao, I'm more related to Yami. I'm just saying that Yuu moving on with someone else who is interested in him, instead of stucking in the past is what I call progression. Like if we are being realistic here, girls like Hikari will get tons of people who lile her and she will like them back, Yuu won't even in the picture and he would be a fool if he stayed liking for someone who doesn't even like him....

 

[Baddtraxx]

my score wont go back up. I keep it at one. this is still a dumpster fire

 

[story645]

They literally tell the others about their problems (maybe not all but at least the majority of it) when they were in the hotel the first time.

They don't - she gives her story, then immediately claims it was a lie, and then cries:

https://mangadex.org/chapter/f623316f-e1ea-45ce-9cb6-411d131e4126/6

When Yuu opens up about regretting the exam after they start dating and asks her about going to school, Aya shuts it down b/c it makes her feel bad. And is like "can Yuu read my mind about why"

(Which side note: avoiding school b/c she doesn't want to run into Yuu's maybe crush isn't an entry in the "this relationship is great for her" column).

https://mangadex.org/chapter/78d007f1-d25a-402b-b0c3-16a0c2942f0d/3

And that's basically it in terms of them talking to each other. She wants him to read her mind, he can't.

After that they went to date and etc...
Compared that to Hikari and after 20 chapters, we have this some sort of a date I guess??

Aya is the one who says she wants normal girl dates, which Yuu and Hikari go to the cafe (which was supposed to be the pool?) and the amusement park and the festival. Which are all places they could run into people they know (and do), whereas the one big outdoors date Aya and Yuu have is on a trip out of town.

Maruto is probably making a contrast here - Hikari and Yuu reading manga in his room w/ Aya and Yuu reading manga in a cafe. Hikari is a part of his world and Aya is a break from it, just like he's Aya's break from her world.

Like if we are being realistic here, girls like Hikari will get tons of people who lile her and she will like them back, Yuu won't even in the picture

Yes that's what Yuu thought in either the comic or novel and that's why he even tried to level up. Like she kept getting asked out and said no b/c she didnt like them so he figured he had no chance. And, that's got nothing to do w/ why I think that Aya/Yuu wasn't sustainable long term (which it wasn't, she ghosted and then apparently never tried to get back w/ him in the months after her home situation stabilized before she knew he was Hikari's crush).

Like aren't you the one with the dirty mind here tho tbh?

It's what Aya thinks is what he misses most about not hanging w/ her:

https://mangadex.org/chapter/161f3b54-1bd3-4ba0-995c-dd6c8dce9d0b/2

I'm more related to Yami

You deserve more than a situationship where your partner feels unnattainable and you constantly feel you don't measure up to their maybe crush?

Like that's not Yuu's fault, sure, but the not telling anyone about her and not going on public dates probably isn't helping.

 

[GennArc]

When Yuu opens up about regretting the exam after they start dating and asks her about going to school, Aya shuts it down b/c it makes her feel bad. And is like "can Yuu read my mind about why"

(Which side note: avoiding school b/c she doesn't want to run into Yuu's maybe crush isn't an entry in the "this relationship is great for her" column).

She doesn't shut it down, it's not like he was about to tell the whole story, and she knows the story anyway. You can see it in the novel.
And about avoiding school - stop twisting her words, she says

One of the many reasons I haven't gone back to school

And it's not like she was attending school before meeting him.

Aya is the one who says she wants normal girl dates

No she doesn't. She just wants to spend time with Yuu. "Normal dates" or whatever doesn't matter to her as long as she is with him, that was the point in chapter 30.

It's what Aya thinks is what he misses most about not hanging w/ her:

You know she is teasing, why do you start implying she really thinks that?

 

[story645]

One of the many reasons I haven't gone back to school

And it's not like she was attending school before meeting him.

Yes, which is my point - despite all your claims about how he gave her courage, the relationship further pushed her to not want to go school b/c she didn't want to meet Hikari. I agree that it wasn't the only reason, just that the relationship definitely didn't improve the situation.

Normal dates" or whatever doesn't matter to her as long as she is with him, that was the point in chapter 30.

Then why did she say Yuu was such an idiot? And why was that the thing she thought about when they broke up?

I took it as she was playing about not liking crowds, (like she does about everything she thinks is uncool) and no really she wanted to do all the normal couple things with Yuu and he's an idiot for not getting that.

I think Maruto is going for parallels here - Aya and Hikari think "carefree cool girl" is what boys want, "normal girl" is what Aya and Hikari actually want. Normal girls want normal dates, unless Maruto is trying to be subversive and like you tell me 'cause I definitely don't see that. Particularly since Aya's whole thing is she doesn't feel like she deserves "normal".

You know she is teasing, why do you start implying she really thinks that?

B/c teasing is often laced with truth. It can be used for indirect communication (a less cranky form of passive aggressiveness) and the reader knows Aya actively holds back from directly communicating with Yuu. The thinking "he probably knows I don't want to go because of Hikari" b/c he didn't deny that Hikari wasn't important and went straight to well Aya would be there too, the "it was a metaphor" about her family history, the "move in with me/be my boytoy" deflection, etc - which all these are said in instances where the reader knows to be true things that she's trying to pass off as a joke or play down. It's like consistently the more important something is, the harder she tries to make Yuu not take it seriously.

Like to flip this on you, do we ever see her tease about something that's confirmed to not have a kernal of truth?

 

[GennArc]

Then why did she say Yuu was such an idiot? And why was that the thing she thought about when they broke up?
I took it as she was playing about not liking crowds, (like she does about everything she thinks is uncool) and no really she wanted to do all the normal couple things with Yuu and he's an idiot for not getting that.

She explains it right away. She is not fond of crowds and such, but still she'd never turn him down, and that's why she says "you don't understand anything", he thinks she'd reject his idea.

Like I'd turn you down just because I hate crowds.

If Yuu was the one inviting me, I'd go anywhere -- even into the summer's sweltering, chaotic crowds.
If Yuu reached out his hand to me, there'd be nothing I couldn't endure.

like she does about everything she thinks is uncool

There's no need to make up things that are just not there.

B/c teasing is often laced with truth.

Just think about it for a second. Imagine she actually thinks that sex is something he is looking forward to the most. How would that be a teasing then?

 

[story645]

She is not fond of crowds and such, but still she'd never turn him down, and that's why she says "you don't understand anything", he thinks she'd reject his idea.

I don't see why the author would have her thinking about this after they broke up unless Maruto is emphasizing that it's something she would have liked to do because it's not like Yuu dumped her for saying no.

Yes, I also interpret "you don't understand anything" as him being dumb in thinking she'd say no, b/c this is actually something she'd want to do with him b/c it's part of normal dating.

Like she does about everything she thinks is uncool
There's no need to make up things that are just not there.

That's how I interpret her "I pretend to be the cool carefree girl" attitude that she puts on from the very beginning- like pretending she's not a virgin or that her family drama is a metaphor, not letting Yuu know how insecure Hikari really makes her, holding back on how serious she is about him.

We've done this loop a few times - I think she's pushed down a lot to maintain a cool girl act and that it's part of the symbolism of her name being Aya - keeping her whole self in the dark. You seem super resistant to the idea, which fine. I really don't think we're gonna get to agreement here 🤷‍♀️

. Imagine she actually thinks that sex is something he is looking forward to the most. How would that be a teasing then?

it's mildly passive aggressive "this is what I think you care about the most" b/c Aya's seeking reassurance that it's not the only thing he cares about b/c she's insecure.

 

[GennArc]

I don't see why the author would have her thinking about this after they broke up unless Maruto is emphasizing that it's something she would have liked to do because it's not like Yuu dumped her for saying no.

Again, because his messages are saying

[ Yuu: The fireworks festival is tomorrow. Got any plans? ]
[ Yuu: I mean, you probably hate crowds, so... we could watch it on the TV at a net café or something. ]

I mean, this is no rocket science, he says she probably would've turned him down and she is thinking how she'd never turn down anything he proposes.

b/c this is actually something she'd want to do with him b/c it's part of normal dating.

You're too focused on the "normal dating" thing. Yami thinks several times she doesn't really care about this kind of stuff, all she wants is to spend time with Yuu.
Take chapter 26 for example.

"Hey, uh, Yami-senpai? What do you want to do after this? Wanna go somewhere?"
"Do you want to go somewhere, Yuu?"
"Nah, I just thought... I mean, it's a date, and we're spending it cooped up like this. That okay with you?"
"...What's wrong with staying in?"
"Well, it's not exactly healthy..."

He doesn't get it.
Yuu really doesn't get it.

What I want from him.
What he's giving me.
How irreplaceable it is.

No stress, no worries. Nothing unpleasant or tiring. Just pure fun.
Being with someone I like, feeling their warmth, taking in their scent, having them all to myself.

"This is perfect. This is exactly what I want!"

1. He asks her if she wants to do the "normal dating" stuff.
2. She asks first if there is anything specific he wants. The next is my interpretation, which ties to the aforementioned quote, but if he said that he wanted to go for some aquarium/festival/you_name_it stuff, she would've agreed.
3. Once he says there's nothing specific, she proceeds with saying and thinking she is perfectly fine with just spending time with him like this.
And that's what I've been telling you all this time. She just wants to be together with him, and it doesn't matter what they are doing. It's all in the novel.

That's how I interpret her "I pretend to be the cool carefree girl" attitude that she puts on from the very beginning

She breaks down crying in front of him, and not only she does that, she turns to him and asks to look at her with more sincerity. If this, or that time when she goes

"Mm."
"W-wait, Yami-senpai, this is a net café..."

I turn my face toward him, lips puckered playfully, like I'm begging for attention.

"It's a private booth. Mmm~!"

are her doing something "cool", I give up.

it's mildly passive aggressive "this is what I think you care about the most" b/c Aya's seeking reassurance that it's not the only thing he cares about b/c she's insecure.

Man, she knows him pretty well at this point. She knows he is a naive and earnest guy, she knows what he is like with her (still occasionally flustered, especially when she initiates intimacy). You realize there's no way for her to think he is in it for sex, don't you?
Please use Occam's razor if that still doesn't convince you. Teasing is just teasing, no need to construct some complicated hypotheses.

 

[story645]

he says she probably would've turned him down and she is thinking how she'd never turn down anything he proposes.

Which is why she turns him down at the manga cafe and the beach? She's honest here now - but in the moment he vaguely proposed something, she proposed hooking up instead, and they hook up. Which is the answer to:

You realize there's no way for her to think he is in it for sex, don't you?

Like if he's not in it for the sex, then propose a concrete activity - pool, amusement park, cafe. Hell, hanging out at his house when his parents could come home. Like the above, she's saying "I would have said yes to a concrete activity- fireworks!"

Like really, what foundation is their relationship built on? You see the teasing as authentic, I see it as mildly passive aggressive. You see them as opening up to each other, I see Aya shutting that door as fast as she can and Yuu not trying all that hard to open it.

She breaks down crying in front of him, and not only she does that, she turns to him and asks to look at her with more sincerity.

After she just told him that the reason she was crying was a metaphor. Then they hook up and once they're together he doesn't believe her when she is sincere with him.

I turn my face toward him, lips puckered playfully, like I'm begging for attention.

"It's a private booth. Mmm~!"

are her doing something "cool"

Like that's the point, the narrative is saying that she wants Yuu to think this is a playful act and not that she's really begging for attention (which yes I agree she's really begging for attention).

And that's what I've been telling you all this time. She just wants to be together with him, and it doesn't matter what they are doing.

She's fine w/ what they're doing because she thinks she doesn't deserve "normal":

If I could've been just a little more like a normal girl...
I'd have gone shopping with him, gone on dates, anything, everything.

Which again not a ringing endorsement for this relationship being great for her self-esteem.

If Yuu was equipped w/ more emotional maturity, or Aya was more honest, he'd hopefully do all the things to try and help her see that she is a normal girl.

But honestly also - like I see the Aya/Yuu dynamics as the first round of like at least 30% of second chance romance mangas so like if you think it was awesome the first go around 🤷‍♀️

 

[GennArc]

Which is why she turns him down at the manga cafe and the beach?

She doesn't and I devoted like half of the post to that.

She's honest here now - but in the moment he vaguely proposed something, she proposed hooking up instead, and they hook up.

So she wasn't honest with her own thoughts when she was thinking she is comfortable with him the way they were? I'm not sure if you just choose to ignore those parts or you think she is actively fooling the reader inside her head.

Like really, what foundation is their relationship built on?

Maybe like most relationships, on two people liking each other and enjoying each other's company? Not that hard of a nut to crack. Or do you actually think a couple needs to be doing a cliche couple stuff to ensure their relationship is "healthy"?

After she just told him that the reason she was crying was a metaphor.

Please stop moving the goalposts. If she's supposed to act cool, is her crying and asking to look him sincerely also her way of acting cool?

Like that's the point

Which part of pluckering her lips is supposed to look cool?

She's fine w/ what they're doing because she thinks she doesn't deserve "normal":

See the part about it being her own thoughts.

 

[story645]

She doesn't and I devoted like half of the post to that.

Fine you're right, she doesn't turn him down b/c he didn't actually propose a concrete activity for her to turn down. But b/c Yuu is dumb, he interpreted her behavior as "she'd turn down any outside activity".

Which part of pluckering her lips is supposed to look cool?

The playfully part. And if the hangup is cool, sub in aloof or carefree or lazy - not that serious.

she was thinking she is comfortable with him the way they were

Yes the deeply insecure teenage girl can 100% believe her relationship is perfect b/c her boyfriend is into her, because she doesn't have the self-esteem to believe she deserves better. Chapter 13.5 is months after their breakup and she still thinks Yuu likes Hikari more. (Whether that's true is immaterial, what's important here is the depth of Aya's insecurity.)

Look, we will probably disagree but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a coincidence that Maruto wrote Aya's mom as a clingy mess and Aya as clingy but trying her hardest to not appear clingy. And Aya's mom thinks her relationships are great.

. If she's supposed to act cool, is her crying and asking to look him sincerely also her way of acting cool

It's the only time she does it, before they're in a relationship, and she lies about why. Like the mirror to this scene is after she ghosts. We've down multiple rounds on "how much vulnerability does she show during the relationship" and are at stalemate.

Or do you actually think a couple needs to be doing a cliche couple stuff to ensure their relationship is "healthy"?

No healthy relationships require openness and trust (security is in there too) and I'm not doing another loop w/ you on "did the way in which they interacted result in them building openness and trust?" - neither of us is gonna pull up the one example we haven't already gone back and forth on that will make the other agree.

 

[GennArc]

Yes the deeply insecure teenage girl can 100% believe her relationship is perfect b/c her boyfriend is into her, because she doesn't have the self-esteem to believe she deserves better.

I'm trying not to turn this into another discussion of our interpretations. The question wasn't about their relationship being perfect or not perfect, the question was about the way they are spending time together. And she both thinks and says she likes it. Yet you're still trying to make up some theory where she actually wanted dates and stuff which contradicts her own thoughts.
That's why I brought up Occam's razor.

Chapter 13.5 is months after their breakup

It's one year after.

how much vulnerability does she show during the relationship

And if the hangup is cool, sub in aloof or carefree or lazy - not that serious.

I could also ask about her clearly insecure questions regarding Hikari. Is it also a cool/aloof/carefree thing to ask?

 

[story645]

Yet you're still trying to make up some theory where she actually wanted dates and stuff which contradicts her own thoughts.

In the moment when Yuu is showering her w/ affection, she's happy with everything and thinks she has what she wants. After they break up and he actually asks her for a concrete date, she's like yeah I actually really wanted that too. It's really not contradictory for folks, especially insecure abused affection starved teenagers, to not know what they wanted until they're offered the chance to have it or they've got some space to think about it, especially stuff they don't think they deserve. So yeah I think her understanding of what she wanted changed as she got deeper into the relationship.

I could also ask about her clearly insecure questions regarding Hikari. Is it also a cool/aloof/carefree thing to ask?

Her tone probably was given that Yuu apparently didn't realize how insecure Hikari made her. Like if she came across as serious then Yuu's deflection veers into "he can't really be that dumb, right?!" territory.

 

[GennArc]

In the moment when Yuu is showering her w/ affection, she's happy with everything and thinks she has what she wants

She is the one who keeps it that way. Now you are saying that even though she was the one who decided to stay cooped up, said as much and thought as much, what she actually wanted is aquarium and amusement park. That's too much, don't you think?

After they break up and he actually asks her for a concrete date, she's like yeah I actually really wanted that too

She explicitly says "if it's with you, I wouldn't mind doing anything" and says twice that she still isn't a fan of those kind of activities

Like I'd turn you down just because I hate crowds.
If Yuu was the one inviting me, I'd go anywhere -- even into the summer's sweltering, chaotic crowds.
If Yuu reached out his hand to me, there'd be nothing I couldn't endure.

It feels like you just stubbornly want to stick with your theory even though there are Yami's thoughts and words in direct contradiction to it.

Her tone probably was given that Yuu apparently didn't realize how insecure Hikari made her.

Is this why he immediately made an effort to smooth things over?

Upd. Sorry, I just saw that you updated your post before I finished writing mine.

Like if she came across as serious then Yuu's deflection veers into "he can't really be that dumb, right?!" territory.

Or maybe her insecurity is not as deep as you seem to be thinking. Although this is interpretation territory again, I'd like to avoid that.

So yeah I think her understanding of what she wanted changed as she got deeper into the relationship.

I am yet to see any evidence of that. Her saying several times how she is not that fond of crowds is a clear indication how she didn't really start liking this usual dating stuff stuff, she just said she would be willing to go for anything if it's with him, which is consistent with everything she did before.

 

[story645]

Or maybe her insecurity is not as deep as you seem to be thinking.

A year later, as you helpfully corrected, after Yuu told her he loves her and Aya is in a more stable place mental health wise, Aya still thinks Yuu likes Hikari more and that's Aya's reason for not telling Hikari that she dated Yuu. She even reassures Hikari that Yuu likes Hikari b/c that's what Aya thinks.

s a clear indication how she didn't really start liking this usual dating stuff

Not liking crowds but being happy she'd be w/ him I think underscores just how much joy she would have gotten from doing these things despite not liking crowds.

Again, this is the end of the relationship as part of a block where she's mourning not being a normal girl:

If I could've been just a little more like a normal girl...
I'd have gone shopping with him, gone on dates, anything, everything.

Which yeah, this is why I think Aya's dislike of normal dates stems from her not believing she deserves them. Because here she's saying if she were normal, she'd have gone on all those normal dates.

But also let's agree to disagree cause we're clearly not gonna agree here.

 

[GennArc]

But also let's agree to disagree cause we're clearly not gonna agree here.

I mean, you're just disagreeing with what's written in the novel. She says "I can endure anything as long is it's with Yuu" about those festivals and stuff, yet you stubbornly keep insisting that festivals and other dates are exactly what she wanted. Even in the quote you send, the focus is on "anything, everything", because the whole point is, I repeat, she just wants to spend time together with Yuu, that's the whole idea. You want to view their relationship as unhealthy so much that you construct some theories and refuse to notice things that contradict them.

But anyway, even though I must've grown a bit rude by the end, it was still a pleasure to discuss this with you. I respect the willingness to actually analyze the contents and think about characters instead of just spamming pointless insults. Our perspectives are different but that's what makes it interesting.

 

[story645]

I repeat, she just wants to spend time together with Yuu, that's the whole idea.

Why think "If I were a normal girl, I'd spend time w/ him [in these other ways]" Why should that even matter if everything else was enough?

 

[GennArc]

Why think "If I were a normal girl, I'd spend time w/ him [in these other ways]" Why should that even matter if everything else was enough?

Because her not being normal is what led to the breakup in her opinion.

 

[story645]

Because her not being normal is what led to the breakup in her opinion.

So why do you think she doesn't want to be normal?

Which all of this is just that I disagree with the confident assertion that I'm twisting the novel. Like I could totally be wrong and I'm okay with that, but my thought process here is that it matters that Maruto bookends this w/ Aya thinking normal means they'd go on different types of dates. Like normal girls could absolutely date the way Aya and Yuu already are, but Aya's not seeing that as "normal".