Imiko to Yobareta Shoukanshi - Ch. 2.1

[WhimsiCat]

@Eridian :
>You are saying people hunting monsters, which AGAIN ATTACKED THEM, are okay to kill.
So you think it's ok for human to go into animal territory to hunt them for food, but not for the animal/monster in question to defend its own home from these armed invaders? Or to hunt what it might perceive as preys?

Also might I remind you that the MC told them at the start if they abandon the fruit and just leave he'll spare their lives, it's them who declare the intent to kill (saying he's just a bandit) first?

>I got SOUR news for you bub, in EVERY part of the world, if someone goes into some woods, kills a deer, and you off them cause you knew that deer, you're going to jail for your whole life.

You know what they did is essentially poaching, which is illegal just about everywhere? Unless you wanna say 'adventurer' is the all-around license to kill whatever not-human they want.

 

[jokerxhisoka]

Imma drop this, MC being an abandoned kid isn't enough for me to sympathize with him and his exaggerated edginess.

 

[Ronye]

@WhimsiCat
And that's also the logic and laws of our own world. Like, no one here will just up and murder anyone but this guy is reacting like we have our knives out ready to slice anyone we see.

 

[Eridian]

@WhimsiCat No, an animal hunting a human back would be fine. At least it would server a purpose, and an animal is devoid of humanity anyways. Had a monster killed them instead it would be a non-issue. It's the fact that it is who the author wants to be the main character that makes it a problem. Because he has the capacity to talk to them. To tell them what they did. Because the normal, rational response to someone coming out of the woods after you just hunted, and telling you to leave the hide or die, is a thief or bandit, or whatever. If they taught him "wisdom" like they said, then he would know that they didn't know any better. They were just hunting monsters to make a living. He could have talked with them, told them what they had done and why it was wrong. Any number of things aside from what he did. Especially since he was SO much stronger than them. He had no need to kill them as he did. The only purpose it serves is to prove people right about their opinions of him.

You don't know what poaching is, do you? Poaching is taking an endangered animal, or protected animal, and killing it despite warnings and laws not to. This wouldn't be poaching. This would be more like killing someones pet deer in the woods, and then killing them over it. They didn't know it was your pet, they didn't know it was your area. They just thought it was another deer they could make money off of to keep living. Coming out and telling them to leave the body or die, just sounds like YOU are the poacher or something. Again, the proper course would be to tell them what that deer meant to you, and why it was wrong to do what they did. I mean they DID say they would leave him alive to take to the guild first, which in every aspect is the right choice, hell better than he deserved even. Normally he would be seen as just a bandit and killed for trying to rob people of their hunted game.

 

[Jethzki]

He got some Hot Top Tiered Waifus in his Harem

 

[Eridian]

@Skine They already come for the fruits. The people straight up say, people come here for the fruits. They already KNOW they are there. He hides nothing by killing them. Nor did they KNOW that was his family, and for that matter neither do you, as again, he don't explain shit.

And saying you are looking forward to more fiction of someone just murdering people for petty shit, just proves my opinion that this is all just a power trip for people that want to do this shit, but can't cause they wouldn't ever be able to.

 

[Eridian]

@Kikaibaka what home? What did they destroy? And as for the family, which one? The one they just killed? Why say "lives" then? Who else did they mean? They don't expound on anything. Also, the translation leaves MUCH to be desired, so it's suspect if that is even what was said to begin with. And even then, just saying "you kill our family" isn't exactly informative. Saying, that monster was our family, would have been better. In that situation they didn't have a clue what the hell he was talking about, because once more, he doesn't explain a damn thing.

 

[Kernub]

@Eridian Poaching is also hunting deers on protected lands, just as I said in my previous post, private property (not owned by the hunters) or public lands if you hunt where you're not supposed to be or hunting without a permit is poaching, poaching is not only hunting endangered animals at least where I live it's considered poaching. In the eyes of the spirits, they have no rights to be there and he could be considered a wildlife officer since it's the spirits home, in my previous post I said the same thing if a poacher gets told to drop what they hunted and don't comply that poacher will not be allowed to leave freely, the same thing for people who fish where they can't or fish more than allowed (some lakes around here have quotas so you can't fish more than a certain number of the same kind per person so that fish won't become extinct) if you get caught you can't leave as you like. The part of that monster could be considered the same as ivory, it's worth a ton of money, if they sell that more people will come and the people who live in these woods don't want more people coming there exterminating wildlife for cash, those adventurers are considered as the same as poachers in the eyes of people living there, who cares if poachers say it would pay rent or to get food or whatever, poaching is poaching it's against the law of the people who lives there. The wildlife officer said you have no right to be here hunting those critters, give back what you caught and leave. Like I said in my other post if you hunted in royal forests and get caught you would be dead depending on what you hunted, it was in the real world with humans hunting in those lands when they could not and were hunted down by other humans, so the human vs human thing would not work, it's considered royal lands in the eyes of the spirits, you can't hunt those critters now get out, they were told you can't hunt these mobs drop the part you got from it and leave, they can't say they did not know someone just told them they can't leave with that, it's the forest's law, the guild has no say on what they can hunt in that forest if the people living there say it's prohibited

 

[Exlce]

I'm pretty sure @Eridian is just a troll. I don't think any normal person can be this delusional.

 

[WhimsiCat]

@Eridian :
>Because he has the capacity to talk to them. To tell them what they did.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/985170/17
"This is MY land, you vandalized it, leave the thing you vandalized my land behind and I won't kill you"
> They were just hunting monsters to make a living. He could have talked with them, told them what they had done and why it was wrong.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/985170/18
"So is the fruit more important than your lives?" He showed no hostility here, to him it was a genuine question of why would someone value something over their own lives.
"He's probably just a bandit! LET'S JUST KILL HIM!"
But sure....let's try to explain to the people who declare they're going to just kill him.

Also the question MC made initially suggest this isn't his first run in with adventurers.

>You don't know what poaching is, do you? Poaching is taking an endangered animal, or protected animal, and killing it despite warnings and laws not to.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poaching
"Poaching has been defined as the illegal hunting or capturing of wild animals, usually associated with land use rights."
It doesn't have to be endangered.
A deer isn't endangered but if you hunt it out of season that'd still be poaching (also it's not limited to killing, even capturing is poaching)

> they didn't know it was your area.
https://mangadex.org/chapter/985170/17
"This is MY land, you vandalized it, leave the thing you vandalized my land behind and I won't kill you"
>I mean they DID say they would leave him alive to take to the guild first,
https://mangadex.org/chapter/985170/19
"let's just kill him"
https://mangadex.org/chapter/985170/21
"burn our foes to ashes"
https://mangadex.org/chapter/985170/22
>Arrow aim at the center of body
https://mangadex.org/chapter/987705/3
https://mangadex.org/chapter/987705/4
"he could dodge my attack, clearly killing him was the right choice"

suuuuure, those are clearly intentions to leave him alive (only the cleric girl was on the opinion of not killing)
now are you gonna keep asspulling to claim that the adventurers clearly were justify in all their actions because that's how they perceive the events while hypocritically ignoring the MC's perception of the events?

 

[KitsuVonKraft]

@Ronye tbh I don’t think I explained properly either. I just felt that the dude was projecting too much on a non issue

 

[Eridian]

@Kernub All good points. If the fucking mc would actually do any of that. he didn't tell them anything but leave your stuff or die. If a random guy in the woods said that to you, would you think he is a wildlife officer or just someone trying to rob you? They didn't know anything, he didn't try to teach them anything. He just threatened them like a bandit and then killed them when they thought he was just a bandit.

 

[Eridian]

@ WhimsiCat You sure don't like to read, do you. I said endangered and PROTECTED LAND. And for that to count, they would have to know about it before hand. If they didn't know it, how could they follow the rule? You can't wear blue on tuesday, you wore blue, now you die. How the fuck is that logical?

And your excuse for him talking is bullshit. All he did was make vague assertions and claims without actually TALKING. Saying things to someone and talking with them are different.

And why woudln't they assume he is a bandit? he comes out of no where, and tells them to leave their things or die. Doesn't stop to talk really, just vague demands of them.

I do see things from his point of view. And from that point, he is a fuuuucking moron. He doesn't actually tell them anything, just this is my land, leave the items or die. Sounds like a fucking bandit in every other story on the planet. Not, i live here and that was my friend you killed, or something like that. There were a million an one ways he could have done that, and he chose the path a sociopath would take, fuck it, kill them and be done with it. They clearly posed no threat to him. He could have just overwhelmed them and then set them straight after restraining them. But nope, straight to murder.

 

[OsoJr]

@Eridian Dude, you're so delusioned by your own bias. You literally cannot apply the same social logic or sense to a fictional series, especially one that takes place in a medieval fantasy setting. The adventurers trespassed into the forest, they hunted the tree monster that was more than likely just defending it's territory. MC offer to spare them if they dropped what they looted, but they refused, so he killed them. Not only that, he explained that if he didn't kill them or even let them be, more adventurers would return for the same reason. Even if he let them leave without the loot, they would most likely return with even MORE adventurers. I don't know what you're even defending because, in the most likely case, if he let the adventurer party leave, they would have returned and burned the forest, pillage the village and probably rape the women. Why? Because this wasn't an adventure quest or anything, this was people simply invading a forest of intellectual beings.

 

[IncreaseSoup]

@Eridian I really don't get the need for you to take such a combative tone and make a bunch of assumptions of who I am as a person, you're being rude for no reason and it's not productive to this discussion.

Besides the numerous good points made by other people, I think it's also important to note that you can't apply modern morals and opinions to a clearly medieval styled world. MC (as far as is known) is not some Japanese reincarnated with his modern sensibilities to guide his actions. Medieval sensibilities are very different and while appearing quite extreme to us today they made sense given the context of the world they lived in.
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Thinking about it, the story so far serves as a perfect example of what might be an old moral tale told to warning against greed and hubris. Replace MC with Artemis and you'd get the same outcome for the adventurers for daring to hunt her sacred animals, honestly they'd probably face worse fates since she wouldn't be as reasonable. You've gone into a forest and plan to take valuables for yourself when a mysterious figure watching from the trees warns you not to take them lest you wish to meet your doom. Blinded by the idea of the massive wealth to be gained you lash out at this figure, calling them a bandit just seeking to profit themselves, and go to kill them. Mysterious figure then reveals themselves to be a God or other powerful figure. You're now screwed and are certainly going to die for your hubris, if only you had kept your wits.

The above is not related to the argument, I just find it interesting. I'm not going to bother responding to anymore of the argument currently raging because it's like talking to a brick wall. MC's actions make sense to me and that's all that matters, it's still too early in the story to make any real judgements. I'm curious to read about the backstory around the Spirit's dislike for humans, leaning towards forced enslavement, and what's the deal with the whole damned thing (bet it's because of evil church doctrine).

 

[Eridian]

@OsoJr I absolutely can apply real world logic. That's how stories work, it's why "suspension of disbelief" is a concept. You make a story relatable, or engaging, or stimulating in some way.

And they didn't know they trespassed. He just said this is my land, leave the item or die. Not an introduction and hey i live here or anything like that. Just a cliche line of every thief or highwayman ever in anything.

He offered to spare them, but was he going to? You just said he had to kill them anyways. So no, he really didn't give them an option there, now did he.

Also, the people already said that adventurers that came from that forest had those fruit. Meaning people ALREADY KNEW. There is no big secret or anything.

And why do you say they would have come back to rape and pillage? They seemed like pretty normal people, having very normal reactions to a crazy person appearing from nowhere and saying he is going to kill them. The one even says not to kill him and instead turn him into their guild, the probably ruling authority in the area. Doesn't strike me as the rape and pillage type.

And again, they didn't know it was the forest of intellectual beings. He never said it was, just it was his land and to leave or die, oh but wait die anyways cause i can't let you leave and bring more people. Which doesn't matter as they already established people already knew about the fruits being from that forest.

And then they have the gall to say " he will be raised with wisdom" later. A wise person would educate the humans on what they did, so that it doesn't keep happening. Because killing them, means it is for SURE going to keep happening.

 

[Eridian]

@IncreaseSoup You can't apply modern rational because the story takes place in a medieval setting is just a cop out of a lazy writer. Sensibilities have not changed to such a huge degree from old times. Killing people was still seen as wrong, and generally they held some form of trial, even if a shame of one, for someone accused of something. Or at the very least had some rational for doing it, and the person caught doing it knew they fucked up or something.

And you saying the actions make sense to you is WHY i'm so pissed. Because that kind of mentality is fucking scary. As i keep saying, that thought process is something someone devoid of a conscious would come to. Hell, even just feeling bad about doing it or something would make this more reasonable. It's the fact he feels nothing for what he did that makes him what he is, and why i keep saying that line of thought is legit dangerous to believe in. Because if you believe that shit, what's stopping you in the real world from doing that shit. You already believe and agree with it anyways. It's like someone that gets off to gore. Will they mutilate someone and fuck the holes? Probably not, but they clearly WANT to, if they are jacking off to it. Which makes it bad enough. It's the same thing here. A bunch of people just doing their normal hunting when a stranger comes along saying the animal they just killed was in his territory and they need to leave the items they got or die. Most if not all people are going to assume that person is robbing them. Especially when he just says leave your shit or die. That's kinda what a robber says. If he said that creature could communicate, and then proved that fact somehow, or just tried to educate them on what they did, rather than just threaten to kill them, then i'd have no issue with any of this. But that's not what happened. This trend of edgy crap of the main character doing reprehensible shit, and then people like yourselves trying to justify it is insane. It's as i said before, ya'll have an urge for this power trip of just offing people for the slightest offense, and that's why this kind of thing is getting popular. It's drawing in that particular crowd of people.

 

[OsoJr]

@Eridian boi, suspension of disbelief literally tells you that a fictional story isn't meant to be taken absolutely seriously for the sake of it's enjoyment. It does not support the argument that a fantasy story in a medieval setting should follow modern social ethics.

They did trespass, whether they know it or not, because they knew they were entering a specific area. If the man literally says it's his territory and that you are looting from it, even with the utmost skepticism, you're still not entitled to just looting an area when someone tells you otherwise. Not to mention that they practically admit to it because their only real defense is that they want to profit from it.

People knew about the fruit but they don't know about the entirety of the forest. They literally say it twice, that the adventurers had no information after that certain point in the forest. It's all a big secret.

Way to defend the people that literally burned part the forest, as well as immediately respond to MC with "He's probably a bandit, let's kill him" who is also unarmored. They literally planned to report it to the guild as soon as the teleport back. The party leader himself even understood MC's perspective and accepted his death at the end. It doesn't matter what that party in particular seemed like to you. If the guild plans to invade the forest for the treasures it possibly holds, that is literally pillaging.

They didn't know it was a forest belonging to a whole race, but at the same time, they literally meet one of them. Not to mention, it's equally debatable whether that tree monster was, in itself, an intellectual being.

Nah, even if they don't plan to return to the forest, and even if they didn't report it, it doesn't guarantee they won't talk about it. Rumors would definitely incite more people into going through the forest to find the same fruits and kill the things they consider family.

What's ridiculous to me, is that you're suspecting the adventurers would have cooperated, even after they literally lashed out in defense for their own profit. They had no plans to let that treasure go, they equally believe that it's fair to kill monsters, meanwhile the MC considers those monsters as family. And that last fact isn't even retroactive either, the leader had no defense to it because even he couldn't admit or understand that idea. The most reasonable person in the party couldn't see the main character's perspective.

 

[NateDerp42]

oof these comments

 

[Skine]

@Eridian You can keep malding. Ill just keep enjoying him killings hoes