Isekai Apocalypse MYNOGHRA ~The Conquest of the World Starts With the Civilization of Ruin~ - Vol. 2 Ch. 8.1 - When the World's Cataclysm is Sowed
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Thanks for the chapter
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And that’s what u get bowl cut guy. Should’ve listened to the veterans. Also, her abilities are op. If she kills the other heroes, then doesn’t that mean she gains all the abilities of that hero? Of course, not all since there must be like a 70% success rate or something or she’ll be toooo OP. She can potentially be the strongest hero, since if she kills the “strongest hero” she can literally become the “strongest hero” with her ability plunderer. Only thing she needs to do is to kill an entire kingdom to get enough abilities to fight properly. Only con I can see in this is if the powers she gain somehow conflict against each other or she becomes mentally unstable due to the large amount of memories she get from killing.
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Wasn't there a unit like that in HoMM 2?
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@ReRead That's pretty much why she's the weakest unit at the start of the game. Because she has no one to kill and learn off of. And usually people don't start warring at early stages and the more experienced the player, the more likely it is that they would avoid Mynoghra as an opponent, until they lose to a economic victory. The game doesn't allow for anything besides numbers being crunched. There are no emotions to stop units from attacking, et al. But in this world, where free will and movement are a thing, she can ambush a highly skilled individual and learn it all quickly.
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@Elroy79
I don’t think you are familiar with this kind of game. In this kind of game, there is stuff called build wide or tall. Build tall means grow the little territory you have and amass a decent army before start to expand the territory. The MC and the Girl specifically said that their faction’s army is weak, in this part it is similar to Endless Series(Game) where there is a faction that’s not suitable for war at all(at least not in the early game).
Now the game is more similar to Age of Wonder(Game) where there are stuff like Mana, Races, Alignment and Heroes. Alignment(Evil, Neutral, Good) doesn’t always dictate the way to live, but it does decide the starting relationship with other factions. Heroes, like the girl you see here you must be thinking “With girl like her it will be easy for them to expand!”, but no. It’s normal for a strong Hero to slay 3 units alone, which is the right number for people on this chapter, but not a proper army.
Now comes the relationship. The superpower in the area are 2 Good factions, the moment they knew an Evil faction has been established they will obviously try to stop it. Meanwhile MC faction has just barely started. With a weak military, there is no way he can win against any of them, let alone both at the same time.
tl;dr
Expecting the MC to initiate a fight against anyone is the same thing the youngster did in this arc; attacking something without a proper preparation and foreseeing the consequences.
I don’t think you are familiar with this kind of game. In this kind of game, there is stuff called build wide or tall. Build tall means grow the little territory you have and amass a decent army before start to expand the territory. The MC and the Girl specifically said that their faction’s army is weak, in this part it is similar to Endless Series(Game) where there is a faction that’s not suitable for war at all(at least not in the early game).
Now the game is more similar to Age of Wonder(Game) where there are stuff like Mana, Races, Alignment and Heroes. Alignment(Evil, Neutral, Good) doesn’t always dictate the way to live, but it does decide the starting relationship with other factions. Heroes, like the girl you see here you must be thinking “With girl like her it will be easy for them to expand!”, but no. It’s normal for a strong Hero to slay 3 units alone, which is the right number for people on this chapter, but not a proper army.
Now comes the relationship. The superpower in the area are 2 Good factions, the moment they knew an Evil faction has been established they will obviously try to stop it. Meanwhile MC faction has just barely started. With a weak military, there is no way he can win against any of them, let alone both at the same time.
tl;dr
Expecting the MC to initiate a fight against anyone is the same thing the youngster did in this arc; attacking something without a proper preparation and foreseeing the consequences.
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@PantsuKami
@Elroy79
Sometimes I wonder if people on this website have the reading comprehension of mongeese or something. At the start of the manga they said that their faction is suited towards defence, this was shown in the last chapter with their home field buff for evil creatures that negatively affects people who aren’t of their alignment. When you only have a shield with thorns why would you put it down to go and punch people with swords? Going aggro with a defence/ trap build will literally just get you insta-wiped
@Elroy79
Sometimes I wonder if people on this website have the reading comprehension of mongeese or something. At the start of the manga they said that their faction is suited towards defence, this was shown in the last chapter with their home field buff for evil creatures that negatively affects people who aren’t of their alignment. When you only have a shield with thorns why would you put it down to go and punch people with swords? Going aggro with a defence/ trap build will literally just get you insta-wiped
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lol, its that immature knight's fault, the evil faction actually did nothing wrong lmao, its even funnier since its ironic.
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@PantsuKami, While I agree people in reality often carry cognitive dissonance when it comes to certain beliefs. Pacifism always strikes me as a naive philosophy and I often find people are contradictory with it.
@diegohqm, As I was mentioning to PantsuKami, I get that his strategy was to be "shut-in" but I've played these types of games as I mentioned elsewhere or here, can't remember, Command & Conquer, Supreme Commander, StarCraft, etc. If you're playing against the computer there's often a set time limit before it comes after you, if you're playing against people, you may have less time than that as implied by MC's own statements about the game. It seems he was playing against people and not bots. So I'm reluctant to believe that everytime he won, he won on a "shut-in" just sit around and build up strategy. Still, this is obviously a real-world scenario and MC acknowledged that so it doesn't follow that game strategy would necessarily work in this world. Like I said, I get it, MC was locked in a hospital bed up until his death so he doesn't have real life experience. So I can't help but wonder where his pacifist philosophy came from if he's never encountered anything beyond that and never put thought (assumingly) into anything beyond that.
@Cacklea, Given how he responded to the Dark Elf Captain, I don't know. I'm suspect. That's all I'll say. Like I said, I'm not calling for him to go all murder hobo, but at the same time, you're starting a kingdom. A new kingdom that you acknowledge is surrounded by hostile kingdoms. I think even a child would recognize that there's a possibility that you'd end up in a fight one way or another. Pacifism in general always struck me as a naive and silly philosophy. You don't fight while you let others fight for you and it is predicated on the other side not fighting you and steam rolling you over and moving on to the next opponent that often, you call yourself protecting if you're trying to do that.
@HayashidaYuki,
I think you and PantsuKami missed my point. My point is not that I disagree with MC and Atou's strategy, it's their philosophy. The whole "be peaceful" thing. As you point out there are players who will play with a conquest strategy, correct? Going out and attacking other players? That's my point. MC played this game and should know this so why take a pacifist approach? Build your people up, fine, I'm fine with that, but taking a pacifist approach in a war strategy like scenario when you get intelligence that the two nearest nations are hostile toward your alignment? That doesn't make sense at all. So I'm familiar with these games as I implied. Whether bot or player, you play at the risk that someone will potentially attack your group.
I never said Mc has to go on conquest. I'm critiquing MC's silly pacifist philosophy despite the reality of his situation. I never said MC should go start a fight with people, I said MC should've been aware people would come fight them sooner or later. Why be a pacifist in this situation? Doesn't make sense. Yet at the sametime, MC and Atou want to conquer the world, that obviously means they'd have to inevitably fight people.
@Shnebs,
Again, my criticism is of the MC's silly pacifist stance. I never said MC should go out and conquer people outright, but the inherent point of conquest is that you're going to get into conflict at some point and time. MC and Atou can't remain in Mynoghra the entire time while aiming for world conquest at the same time. That doesn't make sense. MC can, of course, build up Mynoghra's defenses in preparation for conflict, but MC's pacifist stance contradicts this. MC's reply to the Dark Elf Captain contradicts this when he said "We're a peaceful nation" yet with Atou, he wants to conquer the world. There's no such thing as peaceful world conquest. People who think they're conquering the world peacefully are generally on the side of the conquerors and turn a blind eye to any boot they put on the throats of dissenters.
@diegohqm, As I was mentioning to PantsuKami, I get that his strategy was to be "shut-in" but I've played these types of games as I mentioned elsewhere or here, can't remember, Command & Conquer, Supreme Commander, StarCraft, etc. If you're playing against the computer there's often a set time limit before it comes after you, if you're playing against people, you may have less time than that as implied by MC's own statements about the game. It seems he was playing against people and not bots. So I'm reluctant to believe that everytime he won, he won on a "shut-in" just sit around and build up strategy. Still, this is obviously a real-world scenario and MC acknowledged that so it doesn't follow that game strategy would necessarily work in this world. Like I said, I get it, MC was locked in a hospital bed up until his death so he doesn't have real life experience. So I can't help but wonder where his pacifist philosophy came from if he's never encountered anything beyond that and never put thought (assumingly) into anything beyond that.
@Cacklea, Given how he responded to the Dark Elf Captain, I don't know. I'm suspect. That's all I'll say. Like I said, I'm not calling for him to go all murder hobo, but at the same time, you're starting a kingdom. A new kingdom that you acknowledge is surrounded by hostile kingdoms. I think even a child would recognize that there's a possibility that you'd end up in a fight one way or another. Pacifism in general always struck me as a naive and silly philosophy. You don't fight while you let others fight for you and it is predicated on the other side not fighting you and steam rolling you over and moving on to the next opponent that often, you call yourself protecting if you're trying to do that.
@HayashidaYuki,
I think you and PantsuKami missed my point. My point is not that I disagree with MC and Atou's strategy, it's their philosophy. The whole "be peaceful" thing. As you point out there are players who will play with a conquest strategy, correct? Going out and attacking other players? That's my point. MC played this game and should know this so why take a pacifist approach? Build your people up, fine, I'm fine with that, but taking a pacifist approach in a war strategy like scenario when you get intelligence that the two nearest nations are hostile toward your alignment? That doesn't make sense at all. So I'm familiar with these games as I implied. Whether bot or player, you play at the risk that someone will potentially attack your group.
I never said Mc has to go on conquest. I'm critiquing MC's silly pacifist philosophy despite the reality of his situation. I never said MC should go start a fight with people, I said MC should've been aware people would come fight them sooner or later. Why be a pacifist in this situation? Doesn't make sense. Yet at the sametime, MC and Atou want to conquer the world, that obviously means they'd have to inevitably fight people.
@Shnebs,
Again, my criticism is of the MC's silly pacifist stance. I never said MC should go out and conquer people outright, but the inherent point of conquest is that you're going to get into conflict at some point and time. MC and Atou can't remain in Mynoghra the entire time while aiming for world conquest at the same time. That doesn't make sense. MC can, of course, build up Mynoghra's defenses in preparation for conflict, but MC's pacifist stance contradicts this. MC's reply to the Dark Elf Captain contradicts this when he said "We're a peaceful nation" yet with Atou, he wants to conquer the world. There's no such thing as peaceful world conquest. People who think they're conquering the world peacefully are generally on the side of the conquerors and turn a blind eye to any boot they put on the throats of dissenters.
what I get is he prefer pacifism, but will fight if needed just like what atou does in this chapter or 1 chapter before, and it's not like he won't fight at all he said he will build his army after the country is established and stable (food shelter happiness money) because amassing army take a long time, expensive, a lot of manpower and need a lot of resources, also iirc isn't his country fighting power is kinda lower against other country
To consider, their country is a small country and they wanna avoid any conflict against much powerful and bigger kingdom near them, after she killed all of the scouts the qualia will mobilize a bigger army and take the threat more seriously which is bad for such a small country/kingdom, and qualia can push the elf kingdom to help them fight the cursed forest (both good align fighting a evil align), the evil forest can't even mobilize an army yet because of how expensive it is and they lack the resource time and manpower, if the troop follow sir wendell, it was a win win situation for both of them
To consider, their country is a small country and they wanna avoid any conflict against much powerful and bigger kingdom near them, after she killed all of the scouts the qualia will mobilize a bigger army and take the threat more seriously which is bad for such a small country/kingdom, and qualia can push the elf kingdom to help them fight the cursed forest (both good align fighting a evil align), the evil forest can't even mobilize an army yet because of how expensive it is and they lack the resource time and manpower, if the troop follow sir wendell, it was a win win situation for both of them
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@Elroy79
I dont know what the original argument was so I may be putting my opinion at the wrong time, and I am only judging from your replies. I don't think MC has what you call "pacifist" philosophy. If anything, he recognizes that the two most powerful countries are in fact against him and turtle first then fight. I don't think choosing to hide before striking is qhat you'd call pacifism. Je knows he will eventually fight but now is not the right time so he is laying low. This is from someone who also thinks pacifism is naive thinking because humans sadly...
I dont know what the original argument was so I may be putting my opinion at the wrong time, and I am only judging from your replies. I don't think MC has what you call "pacifist" philosophy. If anything, he recognizes that the two most powerful countries are in fact against him and turtle first then fight. I don't think choosing to hide before striking is qhat you'd call pacifism. Je knows he will eventually fight but now is not the right time so he is laying low. This is from someone who also thinks pacifism is naive thinking because humans sadly...
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@Elroy79 The MC's plan is that because they are an evil faction the good factions will attack them, as shown in this chapter and then get crushed under their defensive might, if they don't attack him he keeps expanding until they do and then once they lose because of their home field advantage they get conquered as they exhausted their army. a peaceful nation can fight back seeing as they are only technically peaceful because they don't have the capacity to attack anyone
also im pretty sure he said that to stop him from becoming over zealous?
also im pretty sure he said that to stop him from becoming over zealous?
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Man this dude is dumb as fuck
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@jayrandomized,
The reason I call him a pacifist is because the author called him pacifist through the Dark Elf Captain in chapter 4. In earlier chapters, the MC and Atou both agree that war is barbaric and repeat this to the Dark Elf in that scene after the Dark Elf pledges his loyalty to the point that he'd be willing to kill babies. When that got turned down the Dark Elf Captain was willing to go to war for him. Atou replied for the MC, "No, War is so barbaric. The King likes peace, remember that from now on." I call it contradictory because they both want to rule the world while holding this naive philosophy.
@Shnebs,
Yes, he can build up but MC acted like war would never be an option, or it's implied while also admitting it will be an option. Again, when the Dark Elf was willing to fight both MC and Atou shut him down with their philosophy, see above. I get he wanted to kill the captain's rising zealotry which also seemed to be a product of them switching alignment from the previous chapter when the entire village's hate rose. But even the Dark Elf captain interpreted their philosophy as pacifism and was confused by their stance. I also get that the general point of the MC is that he is not evil despite having an evil alignment.
My point has nothing to do with MC's strategy, again it has to do with MC's contradictory philosophy. My point, again, is if MC knows that war will inevitably happen, why take a quasi-pacifist position on anything. I get be peaceful until we're attacked. That's all he had to say, but the whole "War is so barbaric thing" is silly given the situation he's in and the situation they're in, and their goals.
I would argue technically once MC learned they were sandwiched between two hostile nations and that small dark forest is their only refuge that they never truly had the home field advantage. Both MC and Atou admitted in the early chapters that this "mode" if you want to liken it to a game like they did is beyond the hardest difficulty in the game MC ever played. The fact the kingdom came at them so early in their development stage proves this. Still, my point here is that MC should have been on his "A" game from that moment on and not catering to naive philosophies about being too peaceful and no this doesn't mean he had to run out and turn murder hobo and wildly attack people. It also didn't mean he had to deflate the person he just put in charge of the Dark Elf army nor walk around spouting contradictory nonsense confusing people like I showed above.
I also admitted that I get that MC practically grew up in a hospital and doesn't have real-life experience and is likely a child mentally.
I'll add that I just revisited the tags and see this has the "Comedy" tag so maybe I need to stop putting so much thought into this since I doubt this will be as serious as everyone is expecting it to be after this current scene with the holy knights.
@545, I just want to say that Werdell/Verdell was likely going to return to Malka, report to the Saint and they would've came back with a larger force to wipe out naive MC, Atou, and the Dark Elves so MC and Atou contradictory strategy and viewpoints would've done them in. Everyone is praising Werdell/Verdell here and I get it, but are forgetting his main job was to find out what was going on. Everyone seems to be forgetting he likened Atou to two witches the kingdom fought to the death with previously in the north, so he would've went back and reported there was a witch at that caliber hiding in the forest.
So while Werdell/Verdell was level headed in this situation to try to get his group out of danger because he assessed Atou as a high level threat despite his words, he was going to take that information back to the kingdom and the kingdom would've likely responded with hostilities.
The kingdom is still likely to respond with hostilities when their scout team fails to return.
That, in general, goes back to my point about MC's viewpoint on all of this and his silly "be peaceful, war is barbaric" declaration to his citizens. It proves my point that at some point he would've been attacked. Again, let me stress, I'm not arguing he should've geared up right now and went out and attacked the kingdom.
Edited: Let me clarify because everyone will interpret this as me saying he should've attacked. I'm saying he should've properly prepared, but he didn't because of his naive viewpoint. I get building infrastructure, but he should've had the Dark Elf captain running drills or something or building up his defenses better. No, he's been lollygagging around talking about wanting to be peaceful while at the same time wanting to conquer the world. No one else sees the contradiction?
This is nothing new in manga with these types of characters who take these types of "be peaceful" positions in stories that will obviously have conflict.
The reason I call him a pacifist is because the author called him pacifist through the Dark Elf Captain in chapter 4. In earlier chapters, the MC and Atou both agree that war is barbaric and repeat this to the Dark Elf in that scene after the Dark Elf pledges his loyalty to the point that he'd be willing to kill babies. When that got turned down the Dark Elf Captain was willing to go to war for him. Atou replied for the MC, "No, War is so barbaric. The King likes peace, remember that from now on." I call it contradictory because they both want to rule the world while holding this naive philosophy.
@Shnebs,
Yes, he can build up but MC acted like war would never be an option, or it's implied while also admitting it will be an option. Again, when the Dark Elf was willing to fight both MC and Atou shut him down with their philosophy, see above. I get he wanted to kill the captain's rising zealotry which also seemed to be a product of them switching alignment from the previous chapter when the entire village's hate rose. But even the Dark Elf captain interpreted their philosophy as pacifism and was confused by their stance. I also get that the general point of the MC is that he is not evil despite having an evil alignment.
My point has nothing to do with MC's strategy, again it has to do with MC's contradictory philosophy. My point, again, is if MC knows that war will inevitably happen, why take a quasi-pacifist position on anything. I get be peaceful until we're attacked. That's all he had to say, but the whole "War is so barbaric thing" is silly given the situation he's in and the situation they're in, and their goals.
I would argue technically once MC learned they were sandwiched between two hostile nations and that small dark forest is their only refuge that they never truly had the home field advantage. Both MC and Atou admitted in the early chapters that this "mode" if you want to liken it to a game like they did is beyond the hardest difficulty in the game MC ever played. The fact the kingdom came at them so early in their development stage proves this. Still, my point here is that MC should have been on his "A" game from that moment on and not catering to naive philosophies about being too peaceful and no this doesn't mean he had to run out and turn murder hobo and wildly attack people. It also didn't mean he had to deflate the person he just put in charge of the Dark Elf army nor walk around spouting contradictory nonsense confusing people like I showed above.
I also admitted that I get that MC practically grew up in a hospital and doesn't have real-life experience and is likely a child mentally.
I'll add that I just revisited the tags and see this has the "Comedy" tag so maybe I need to stop putting so much thought into this since I doubt this will be as serious as everyone is expecting it to be after this current scene with the holy knights.
@545, I just want to say that Werdell/Verdell was likely going to return to Malka, report to the Saint and they would've came back with a larger force to wipe out naive MC, Atou, and the Dark Elves so MC and Atou contradictory strategy and viewpoints would've done them in. Everyone is praising Werdell/Verdell here and I get it, but are forgetting his main job was to find out what was going on. Everyone seems to be forgetting he likened Atou to two witches the kingdom fought to the death with previously in the north, so he would've went back and reported there was a witch at that caliber hiding in the forest.
So while Werdell/Verdell was level headed in this situation to try to get his group out of danger because he assessed Atou as a high level threat despite his words, he was going to take that information back to the kingdom and the kingdom would've likely responded with hostilities.
The kingdom is still likely to respond with hostilities when their scout team fails to return.
That, in general, goes back to my point about MC's viewpoint on all of this and his silly "be peaceful, war is barbaric" declaration to his citizens. It proves my point that at some point he would've been attacked. Again, let me stress, I'm not arguing he should've geared up right now and went out and attacked the kingdom.
Edited: Let me clarify because everyone will interpret this as me saying he should've attacked. I'm saying he should've properly prepared, but he didn't because of his naive viewpoint. I get building infrastructure, but he should've had the Dark Elf captain running drills or something or building up his defenses better. No, he's been lollygagging around talking about wanting to be peaceful while at the same time wanting to conquer the world. No one else sees the contradiction?
This is nothing new in manga with these types of characters who take these types of "be peaceful" positions in stories that will obviously have conflict.
