Isekai Walking - Vol. 8 Ch. 70 - Slave Contract

[Nonya22]

They really did put the defense of slavery in the mouth of someone wearing cornrows.

"Slavery is mutually beneficial", "criticism of slavery betrays a shallow understanding of it", "a slave contract is something formed with mutual consent" - wait did you not just explicitly say death row prisoners and spoils of war are enslaved? I don't consider "be my slave or die" to be consent, ngl. "abusing your slave can get you enslaved" so slavery is a punishment? I thought you said it was beneficial. And then at the end of the day, he still goes through with it.

Yeah, NGL, this is probably going to be the last chapter of this manga I read.

 

[Guyincognitus]

Yes, in a medieval setting where slavery is already the norm, also you know, magic, demons, dragons, nothing more than another staple of isekai.

You're putting waaaay too much thought into something japanese authors put literally no thought at all.

Sometimes the blue curtains are just blue, without any meaning behind it.

How dare I suggest writers ought to think about what they're writing instead of thinking about how to make slavery seem all fine? How dare I not shovel slop down my throat like a completely uncritical consumer of content? You're right that was my bad.

 

[Outflanks10]

Just eat some popcorn.

 

[Fidelas]

Plus it can't be apologetics because it's never modern earth, slavery in medieval setting is basically just a cliche, you're thinking way too deep about what the author means with it.

Yes, in a medieval setting where slavery is already the norm, also you know, magic, demons, dragons, nothing more than another staple of isekai.

You're putting waaaay too much thought into something japanese authors put literally no thought at all.

The problem is exactly that the author didn't think deeply about it. I like tropey schlock as much as the next guy, and this series is in fact tropey schlock even as it does dodge some of the lowest hanging fruit, but uncritical consumption is how this garbage continues to find success. It's not like "Wow, this kind of reads like this guy is trying to make slavery sound like a cool and great institution for the enslaved!" is a deep read from this chapter, nobody was really stretching their neurons to make this leap. It's right there in the text!

This is part of holding authors accountable for the choices they make, even if that accountability starts on some random internet forum. Will they see this thread? No. Will they maybe someday see the sentiment as it trickles through the internet? Perhaps. And someday, maybe we'll see less slave harem garbage and authors will learn to write parties that actually have reasons to travel together.

People forget how recent and prevalent slavery has been in Japan. Japan wants to say slavery was abolished centuries ago, but my family has a notarized receipt-of-sale of my great-grandmother and her brother and that was less than a century ago, she kept that receipt with her her whole life until she passed away a couple of years ago, as proof she was a free person.

Yeah but that was Imperial Japan, so that doesn't count! Part of that nasty 20th century stuff that we like to ignore! /s

 

[T-sama]

How dare I suggest writers ought to think about what they're writing instead of thinking about how to make slavery seem all fine? How dare I not shovel slop down my throat like a completely uncritical consumer of content? You're right that was my bad.

I see you have no actual argument now.

Let's be real here, and I mean actually real, vast majority of japanese writers and readers don't think or care about those details, they simply want a entertaining story, and most of the time will go through a list of cliches staple to whatever genre they write, every single fucking time.

You won't see japanese readers whining and moralizing about some eeeeevil in a manga, like slavery, among other things, because they literally don't give a fuck as long as they get their taste of escapism from japanese crushing social expectations.

If you or anyone else can't understand that at this post, that mangas have been like this for decades and will not change, and that they don't give a single fuck about westerners sensibilities, then maybe you should stop consuming japanese media, because this will not change, ever.

 

[phorx]

Interesting that she can see Ciel now. Ciel didn’t really appear in the web novel so I’m curious to see how it might change things dow the road.

 

[CraniumAmbiguity]

I have a budding crackpot theory that the Japanese employment system is so similar to salvery they kind of conflate the two, hence the dumbass takes on "mutually beneficial slavery" in manga.

Considering that Japan's lack of employment and labor regulations have resulted in "Black companies" and 'White companies".

Spoiler

 

[Toloran]

Slavery is ok in this Isekai manga “because it’s mutually beneficial”
It’s kind of like saying, it’s okay if I own a slave “ because i’ll treat them well”

And to be honest, whenever I see a manga, try and put slavery in a good light or try to portray it with a straw man argument. It makes me very dubious of the authors intentions and political views.

It had strong "We were better under Jim Crowe" vibes.

 

[T-sama]

The problem is exactly that the author didn't think deeply about it. I like tropey schlock as much as the next guy, and this series is in fact tropey schlock even as it does dodge some of the lowest hanging fruit, but uncritical consumption is how this garbage continues to find success. It's not like "Wow, this kind of reads like this guy is trying to make slavery sound like a cool and great institution for the enslaved!" is a deep read from this chapter, nobody was really stretching their neurons to make this leap. It's right there in the text!

This is part of holding authors accountable for the choices they make, even if that accountability starts on some random internet forum. Will they see this thread? No. Will they maybe someday see the sentiment as it trickles through the internet? Perhaps. And someday, maybe we'll see less slave harem garbage and authors will learn to write parties that actually have reasons to travel together.


Yeah but that was Imperial Japan, so that doesn't count! Part of that nasty 20th century stuff that we like to ignore! /s

Sorry but there's no "accountability", it's fucking  fiction, anything goes, literally, also, japanese writers will never truly give a fuck about westerners sensibilities, they're writing specifically for japanese readers, who don't give a fuck about any moralizing or whatever about something baaad being show, they just want to consume some tasty and entertaining escapism to ignore the crushing social expectations.

Read my previous post for more what I mean

You guys should just stop expecting too much from japanese authors.

 

[stilgar]

Saying it's slavery apologetics is quite a stretch when most isekai with good slavery literally involves fucking magic.

Plus it can't be apologetics because it's never modern earth, slavery in medieval setting is basically just a cliche, you're thinking way too deep about what the author means with it.

Lol, "good" slavery

 

[Guyincognitus]

I see you have no actual argument now.

Let's be real here, and I mean actually real, vast majorit od japanese writers and readers don't think or care about those details, they simply want a entertaining story, and most of the time will go through a list of cliches staple to whatever genre they write, every single fucking time.

You won't see japanese readers whining and moralizing about some eeeeevil in a manga, like slavery, among other things, because they literally don't give a fuck as long as they get their taste of escapism from japanese crushing social expectations.

If you or anyone else can't understand that at this post, that mangas have been like this for decades and will not change, and that they don't give a single fuck about westerners sensibilities, then maybe you should stop consuming japanese media, because this will not change, ever.

Argument to what? I gave examples of how the system in this manga is literally slavery apologetics all you said was "just turn your brain off bro". Why are you dying on this hill? Makes you look questionable.

 

[T-sama]

Lol, "good" slavery

I admit I should have put "good" when I wrote

 

[T-sama]

Argument to what? I gave examples of how the system in this manga is literally slavery apologetics all you said was "just turn your brain off bro". Why are you dying on this hill? Makes you look questionable.

Ah yes, "make you look questionable", because when you can't make an argument you vilify the other person.

There's no hill to die, it's isekai, literally the most "turn your brain off", if you want to scream at the clouds, pat yourself in the back because you said the obvious, that slavery is bad, be my guest, you're achieving nothing either way.

 

[hevensdragon]

Western readers can't help but moralizing about things they shouldn't think too deep, at least slavery is understandable, could be worse, like Twittards who whine about any age gap romance being "pedophilia".

It doesn't even have to have a age gap, image being called a pedophile for dating a classmate in highschool who is 2 months younger, just because you hit 18 first.

 

[AntonSolo]

FRIEREN mentioned pog moment

I imagine the Kingdom's favorite meal is burgers...

 

[T-sama]

It doesn't even have to have a age gap, image being called a pedophile for dating a classmate in highschool who is 2 months younger, just because you hit 18 first.

I've seen some do that over adults, with both past 20, barely any age difference, and some still scream abuse, toxic, sometimes even pedophilia if there's like 5 years difference or more, it's crazy.

 

[theShear]

It doesn't even have to have a age gap, image being called a pedophile for dating a classmate in highschool who is 2 months younger, just because you hit 18 first.

Oh god. I think I read about that one. I think they even arrested the older one?

 

[Fidelas]

Sorry but there's no "accountability", it's fucking  fiction, anything goes, literally, also, japanese writers will never truly give a fuck about westerners sensibilities, they're writing specifically for japanese readers, who don't give a fuck about any moralizing or whatever about something baaad being show, they just want to consume some tasty and entertaining escapism to ignore the crushing social expectations.

Read my previous post for more what I mean

You guys should just stop expecting too much from japanese authors.

Your argument is entirely "stop whining about the content I enjoy, let me turn my brain off!" That's fine for you, nobody is going to force you to think. The rest of us can actually discuss in this discussion thread. Nobody is forcing you to be here defending a guy whose idea of a compelling plot point is "Slavery is actually good for the slaves, because umm... it's fantasy!" There are in fact limits to my suspension of disbelief.

And no, I don't expect Aruku Hito himself to see this exact post and go "Wow, this random dude on a random Western site was so right, I'll stop writing garbage!" That doesn't mean the things we're talking about don't have value. Sentiment builds one post at a time, and communication between western and eastern fanbases has never been higher than it is today. How else are we supposed to express that certain plot points are tasteless and uninspired than making posts calling them out? If I can't convince Aruku Hito, then maybe I can convince some other westerner, and they'll convince someone else, and so on and so forth. And maybe that'll be enough people to stop buying slave harem schlock and they'll stop writing it.

 

[Salfaro]

Funny that with the "well actually, slavery's good" speech, he talks about everything except special slaves, where there really doesn't seem to be a point (beyond this manga deciding guardianship doesn't exist).

Makes it smell a lot like he's gonna get an actual slave in the future, lmao.

 

[Guyincognitus]

Ah yes, "make you look questionable", because when you can't make an argument you vilify the other person.

There's no hill to die, it's isekai, literally the most "turn your brain off", if you want to scream at the clouds, pat yourself in the back because you said the obvious, that slavery is bad, be my guest, you're achieving nothing either way.

Type out this exact message for me and we can be done with it: "I'm okay with slavery apologetics in manga."

Personally, I think all slavery apologetics are bad and I don't like seeing it presented uncritically in manga and when it is, which is too often, that is a good reason to criticize it.