Isekai Yakkyoku - Ch. 64 - Toward Remission

[Scallywag96]

He has the empress's ear, so what can't he achieve? If the professors of the Imperial Medical School refuse to listen and reform, the empress will have them fired ingloriously. That would be quite a motivation to actually listen, learn, and develop.

So basically it's the next story arc

 

[Xenophacilus]

Rip hair

 

[Ironclad]

He has the empress's ear, so what can't he achieve? If the professors of the Imperial Medical School refuse to listen and reform, the empress will have them fired ingloriously. That would be quite a motivation to actually listen, learn, and develop.

His own father was doing seances during a full moon to finish his medicines, what kind of quackery do you think the doctors are up to?

 

[finalm]

There'd be no need to replace them all because not all would refuse. Only old fossils already about to retire and knowing they can't be bothered to learn new things would leave. And then potentially some stubborn fools who would do more harm than good even if they stayed. After that, just promote younger staff willing to listen and learn to be new professors. At the end of the day, if the empress herself plus the head of the church are standing behind Falma, it would be no insult to their pride and prestige to heed Falma's words. Not to mention they most certainly are all already aware of Falma and all aspects of his fame. So, it wouldn't be some nameless person out of the blue the empress would nominate to reschool them.

It's not really about fame or prestige. The thing about these sort of communities is that they usually tow the line. So yes, you can expect all, or the vast majority to refuse along with their peers, out of principle if nothing else, if they feel slighted (there's a reason IRL universities claim independence to the point that police can not enter their premises without permission). Your solution is what I already said would only exacerbate the problem and the MC knows it, that's exactly why he's troubled - are you going to suspend accepting students for who knows how many years until your new staff is ready to teach? The old one would at least offer continuity while transitioning to a new curriculum, putting out better trained people each year. After all, even with all their current quack methods, these doctors are still clearly needed right now, otherwise the country wouldn't waste resources on them.

 

[finalm]

His own father was doing seances during a full moon to finish his medicines, what kind of quackery do you think the doctors are up to?

Funny thing, because that quackery ended up working. It was stated in early chapter that it was some sort of divination that allowed him insight beyond the state of the art knowledge of this world, something the MC himself acknowledged he should not be able to discern.

 

[Kaarme]

It's not really about fame or prestige. The thing about these sort of communities is that they usually tow the line. So yes, you can expect all, or the vast majority to refuse along with their peers, out of principle if nothing else, if they feel slighted (there's a reason IRL universities claim independence to the point that police can not enter their premises without permission). Your solution is what I already said would only exacerbate the problem and the MC knows it, that's exactly why he's troubled - are you going to suspend accepting students for who knows how many years until your new staff is ready to teach? The old one would at least offer continuity while transitioning to a new curriculum, putting out better trained people each year. After all, even with all their current quack methods, these doctors are still clearly needed right now, otherwise the country wouldn't waste resources on them.

What's the point of all that? If the quacks can continue as they always have, it will just produce more quacks. Of course all of their methods probably aren't pure scams, so they will still get something done. Better than nothing in half of the cases, maybe. But if Falma is worried about it, he will need to do something about it.

I simply don't share your pessimistic view of it, nor do I believe your view of the professors not caring about fame and prestige. There have to be some among them who actually would like to learn more and become heralds of a new age.

 

[NamaeX]

Wondering if the Japanese are using the French pronunciation of Roger or the English pronunciation.

 

[Pen3]

Blanche is so cute and precious.

 

[finalm]

What's the point of all that? If the quacks can continue as they always have, it will just produce more quacks. Of course all of their methods probably aren't pure scams, so they will still get something done. Better than nothing in half of the cases, maybe. But if Falma is worried about it, he will need to do something about it.

I simply don't share your pessimistic view of it, nor do I believe your view of the professors not caring about fame and prestige. There have to be some among them who actually would like to learn more and become heralds of a new age.

That is exactly why, even poor doctors are better than none. Especially since they are only poor when compared to modern day ones - if you could travel far enough into the future, our current medicine would probably also look like pointess quackery. At the very least they likely have experience dealing with injuries, which should be something the MC himself does not.

It's not pessimism, I have a good deal of experience with academics, they tend to be fierce when faced with high-handedness like you've outlined. From their point of view the Empress would be handing control of their field to a child whose knowledge can not be comprehended, even if it works. So in addition to just plain stubborness, you'd have simple distrust, especially from everyone non-pious. Some would accept it, but likely far too few to work with. The MC would not be hesitant if that was not the case.

 

[Kaarme]

That is exactly why, even poor doctors are better than none. Especially since they are only poor when compared to modern day ones - if you could travel far enough into the future, our current medicine would probably also look like pointess quackery. At the very least they likely have experience dealing with injuries, which should be something the MC himself does not.

It's not pessimism, I have a good deal of experience with academics, they tend to be fierce when faced with high-handedness like you've outlined. From their point of view the Empress would be handing control of their field to a child whose knowledge can not be comprehended, even if it works. So in addition to just plain stubborness, you'd have simple distrust, especially from everyone non-pious. Some would accept it, but likely far too few to work with. The MC would not be hesitant if that was not the case.

Falma wouldn't even have time to assume control of the place. He merely would need to be accepted as an authority and source of information, without needing to go through the slow process of convincing every single old beard individually of the merits of his knowledge. So, if the empress, Falma's rather famous father, and the church leader all vouch for him, but some stubborn bastard still refuses to even attend a single lecture demonstrating what Falma would have to offer, then it's time for such a person to retire.

Without some force behind him, despite his fame, which most definitely has reached the medical school, there indeed should be old professors who feel threatened by the possibility of losing their apex position in the medical field. But if they haven't got a choice, they would need to hear what Falma has got to say and check out his textbook. Then, perhaps, the long lost ambition might be rekindled in the heart of an old fool and they might even embrace the world of new medicine. Forced out of their comfort zone of many years and all that.

It's not like I wouldn't have experience of academics. Though my experience also says too much of a professor's valuable time is spent on worrying about financies. If you listen to Falma, there might be money, if you don't listen to him, who knows.

 

[finalm]

Falma wouldn't even have time to assume control of the place. He merely would need to be accepted as an authority and source of information, without needing to go through the slow process of convincing every single old beard individually of the merits of his knowledge. So, if the empress, Falma's rather famous father, and the church leader all vouch for him, but some stubborn bastard still refuses to even attend a single lecture demonstrating what Falma would have to offer, then it's time for such a person to retire.

Without some force behind him, despite his fame, which most definitely has reached the medical school, there indeed should be old professors who feel threatened by the possibility of losing their apex position in the medical field. But if they haven't got a choice, they would need to hear what Falma has got to say and check out his textbook. Then, perhaps, the long lost ambition might be rekindled in the heart of an old fool and they might even embrace the world of new medicine. Forced out of their comfort zone of many years and all that.

It's not like I wouldn't have experience of academics. Though my experience also says too much of a professor's valuable time is spent on worrying about financies. If you listen to Falma, there might be money, if you don't listen to him, who knows.

Then from an observer's perspective, it's no different than dogma. The authorities are propping up some sort of child prophet in a secular organization and doing so as forcefully as possible without using outright violence. Try to imagine how well that would go over in IRL 18th century academic circles. That's why you can expect resistence on principle alone, especially since they too know that all it takes is enough of them to refuse cooperation for the plan to hit serious roadblocks.

This is what I've been referring to: checking out his textbook, attending a few lectures etc. would not be enough to erase skepticism, because that civilization lack the mountain of educational background in order to make sense of this. He can tell them about atomic theory, but how does he prove it to people who don't know electricity? He can compound working medicine but just the fact that it works does not mean it's for the reasons he claims. He really does need to gradually educate people from the ground up, which will take a very long time, no matter how you cut it.

In fact, the best way to approach this would likely be to found a new centre of learning, just like he did with the apothecary guild. The could focus on the long-term plan of teaching a new kind of doctors and then let the results speak for themselves. There'd be opposition, of course, but this is where the Empress' authority would be useful, she could just say, "this has nothing to do with you guys, carry on. Unless you're willing to enroll and learn yourselves?".

 

[Esper]

Reminder that Blanche is best little sister. And she looks cute with short hair, too.

 

[BusWindow]

I thought the statue or Falma was gonna glow when Palle was praying to the Medicine God. I forgot that Falma has one more secret he's keeping from his brother, lol.

 

[Yuu3]

I do like the direction and his beliefs but it's also breaking me that he's doing all this lowkey alone on top of his current load. Boy running 4+ people's worth of life work all at once. That professor side jig really need to churn out more ppl following his teaching first to help him with all this advancements. Years of advancement can't be kickstarted by one person.

 

[Pinnaclen]

I feel like falma crossed the line of doing the doctor's job a long long time ago, like in chapter 5 lmao

 

[Jackal-Lantern]

And who's going to replace them? What this story fails to address is that his way of introducing innovation is saddled with serious problems. No one he teaches really understands what they are doing, they are simply told to take his methods at face value and repeat. That's because it takes years of specialized formal education to be able to understand, and even that only assuming you have decades of modern basic education already. The entire reason he's looking into changing the university's way of teaching is to begin closing those gaps, he can't have young people step in and tell even younger ones "look, this works so just do it like this". Well, I guess he could, if he appealed to state religion, but that kind of makes the whole "evidence based approach" meaningless, doesn't it? He needs to introduce it gradually, based on what they already know and learn, so the professors' cooperation is needed both because they have authority and are familiar with what is taught and how.

The problem is that all the bits knowledge he introduces are basically divine revelations as far as other people are concerned. It works, but it's like magic spells that are just handed out, people have no ability to really verify, understand and build on it. This is far from how scientific advancement works IRL.

A world with magic and it's own system on how said magic works, and you really think it'd take these guys years to understand. All he would need to do is demonstrate his skill and technique (which will likely be what happens) and the rest would fall in line. That's not gonna take years...

 

[finalm]

A world with magic and it's own system on how said magic works, and you really think it'd take these guys years to understand. All he would need to do is demonstrate his skill and technique (which will likely be what happens) and the rest would fall in line. That's not gonna take years...

I don't recall there being any mention of magic being used to assist in learning, much less the kind that is done in a pharmacy/medicine course at university level. That alone takes years for contemporary people, if you're unaware. Add to that all the basics that an enrolling student is expected to know (which took about a decade to get, starting at an age when he/she learns rapidly) and you tell me how long of a time you're looking at. Or are you saying that because there's magic then anything is possible?

Teaching them a few specific processes will only ever make them assistants, not doctors or pharmacists. He specifically said this is not what's he's after, since he doesn;t know for how long he can still be around.

Also, let me clarify something: I'm not talking how the manga will resolve this. It's already shown to be willing to gloss over such things, as if they're not an issue. It's no surprise, authors in general tend not to be very bright, much less have a scientific background. I'm awsering a question that appeals to logic, by using logic, this one: why not just fire all the stubborn current teachers and replace them with young, impressionable and obedient ones that he'd personally teach? This is what this discussion is about, in the context of this story.

 

[allaboutTHEBEES]

I had lost touch with the series a couple years back, so I’m glad to see it’s still being translated!!

 

[nathan67003]

 

[dcipher5]

And who's going to replace them? What this story fails to address is that his way of introducing innovation is saddled with serious problems. No one he teaches really understands what they are doing, they are simply told to take his methods at face value and repeat. That's because it takes years of specialized formal education to be able to understand, and even that only assuming you have decades of modern basic education already. The entire reason he's looking into changing the university's way of teaching is to begin closing those gaps, he can't have young people step in and tell even younger ones "look, this works so just do it like this". Well, I guess he could, if he appealed to state religion, but that kind of makes the whole "evidence based approach" meaningless, doesn't it? He needs to introduce it gradually, based on what they already know and learn, so the professors' cooperation is needed both because they have authority and are familiar with what is taught and how.

The problem is that all the bits knowledge he introduces are basically divine revelations as far as other people are concerned. It works, but it's like magic spells that are just handed out, people have no ability to really verify, understand and build on it. This is far from how scientific advancement works IRL

He does push them to think about how it can improve both Bruno and palli are helping and we only see what the camera shows the author wouldn't show the education that happens because it tend to be boring think how not many classes get shown in school animes and shows