Josei Danshi - Vol. 5 Ch. 32 - Last: Into the Sky So Vast

[BanditHadron]

@nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv
What's really pathetic is the fact that you're trying to turn this into a debate over a manga with bad writing, and are foaming at the mouth over the fact that I'd rather just sit here and insult you.

Get over yourself, hahahahaha

 

[nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv]

@BanditHadron So I started out criticizing this manga for bad writing. Then you came in to defend it and said that oh, herp derp, what I criticized was already addressed.

Now we're here, a couple posts deep, and you're saying that it's bad writing. You know, the thing that I was saying from the very beginning?

Yeah, I'm the bad one. Oh no, whatever will I do? I'm so ashamed of myself.

 

[BanditHadron]

@nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv
You claimed something wasn't addressed and that was bad writing - except it was addressed, just in a way that makes for bad writing.

See the difference?

 

[nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv]

@BanditHadron You claimed that it was addressed. You conceded that it was addressed badly.

My statement is still that it was not addressed at all. I gave the example of me talking about eating an orange and addressing pandemics. At a certain point, if something is addressed really, really badly, then it wasn't addressed at all. I'm saying that it was addressed so badly that it should not be considered addressed at all.

 

[nono177013]

Thanks for translating this manga till the end

 

[diablo43]

@nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv

Page 6 of Chapter 31 is how the mangaka dealt with it the bulk of how they accepted Pochi. Off screen. You can hate on it with however amount of passion you want but it doesn't change the fact that it did "get addressed."

Also, Tsubasa's hatred of men stems from being the only girl in a family of 7 siblings. How Pochi acts probably changed her mind about how her siblings act is how all men act.

Idr what Kotori's was though. Probably molesting as that was when she was introduced. Perhaps she remembered what happened to Pochi at the beach.

But mainly the reason was already given by them on Page 20, they love Pochi's singing and Ageha pushed really hard for them to forgive.

Edit: Forgot about Ageha's reason. This was dealt with on Page 25 of Chapter 30.

 

[BanditHadron]

@nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv
I still consider it to be addressed, personally, simply because the culture this story comes from has so little to do with what we over here would consider when it comes to "empowerment" messages, that this way of tying it up probably seemed A-OK to the author - and frankly, the story hardly ever focused on it, as I recall. It was certainly brought up, but mostly to juxtapose the fact that Pochi was right there working with them. The characters' own personal experiences weren't even dealt with.

I agreed from the start it was bad writing, but I disagree with you on whether the "empowerment" thing was addressed.

 

[Oddballkun]

A bit rushed at the end, but cute and sweet manga. Thanks to the scanlator for finishing this series

 

[Aichan]

Pochi: I'll sing as a boy from now on!
Starlight Promotions LTD: Nay, sing as a girl. We'll give you a new name. People in your old school know that you're a boy? Good, we'll say you're gender confused. The otaku crowd love that.

 

[nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv]

@diablo43 Okay, I do appreciate the answer. I also appreciate @BanditHadron with their answers (I don't appreciate the parts that weren't answers, though).

If an event is dealt with off screen, then sure, the results afterwards can speak for themselves. It's not the same with motivations and emotions, though. Imagine you have a really caring and warm person suddenly turn into a coldblooded serial killer off screen and then it's never explained why. It's obviously not the same degree here, but it's the same kind of thing. Off screen doesn't really work with motivations, so no, I will still say it did not get addressed.

Okay, I can infer and understand why Tusbasa and Kotori are willing to accept Pochi. I never doubted that. They got to know him. They saw that he wasn't "that bad" or whatever. Maybe he's "one of the good ones". Maybe "not all men are bad". Whatever. It's something along those lines. I get that. That doesn't really get at the deeper issues of wanting to empower girls with music made by girls. It doesn't really get at their motivations for starting the band and what they had hoped to accomplish.

Yeah, they love Pochi's singing, and now they have a new reason to make music. I get that. Here's a decent example. Let's say you were working on bringing clean water to a poor area. It's your passion. Then you meet someone that you want to spend more time with, but they live far away. You now have to deal with whether you want to continue your passion of bringing clean water to the area or move to where that other person is to spend more time with them. That's a decision you decide after at least giving some amount of thought. Maybe it's an easy decision. Maybe you already accomplished your goal. Maybe the other person is two-faced. Whatever you decide, you considered it and addressed the conflict.

They did not address the conflict here. Tsubasa and Kotori forgave Pochi for his deceit and then said they really like Pochi's voice. But...what about their previous goals? They didn't even bring it up at all. Like, they could've even gave one line about how Pochi's voice is inspirational to everyone struggling. They could've said Pochi's voice is more important than girls they've never met. There are lots of different ways to address it, some better than others. But here, I stand by my statement that they did not address it.

To @BanditHadron I guess we just agree to disagree.

 

[phil777]

Well, this was an amusing ride. Thanks for seeing it through until the end!

 

[diablo43]

@nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv

For the motivations and emotions point, Page 2-5 of Chapter 31 deals with it on some level for Tsubasa and Kotori, especially Page 5 where you can see Kotori trying to emphasize with Pochi. Page 11 of Chapter 31 shows that they have empathy for Pochi. They also saw how Ageha (who extremely hates guys) tried to defend and escape with Pochi in Page 19-20 of Chapter 30. Also, Page 7 of Chapter 31 shows that a week past since that incident so there was a lot of time for Ageha to push and convince Tsubasa and Kotori to forgive.

I don't exactly want to reread the whole manga so I'll just go off of memory. I don't think Tsubasa or Kotori had the same goal as Ageha. I believe they just went with her goal for the band. To respond to your water point, no that isn't a fair comparison. It should have been provide water with a specific team requirement to provide water with a not so specific team requirement. Ageha's motivation went from music by girls for helping girls to music by friends for helping girls and her friends. She didn't abandon her drive to help others through music. By writing the song for the culture festival, she is helping Pochi.

For the deception point, that was all Ageha's fault. Page 19 of Chapter 31 shows that Tsubasa (Kotori by implication) understood that.

 

[Ebsolas]

This feels axed. Great potential, so many loose ends. Had much more room to grow. Still a fun ride.

 

[nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv]

@diablo43 For the reasons I mentioned before, I still feel that it wasn't addressed.

You say you don't think Tsubasa and Kotori had the same goal as Ageha. That goes against what they themselves said. They explicitly had said that they were in agreement with a goal of making music for girls by girls. They did not say that their goal was to support Ageha with whatever Ageha wanted. That's why the water example still makes sense. They agreed with the goal of [music for girls by girls], not just a generic goal of [being a part of a team]. I could even go into the whole part about when Ageha was in New York and how the band continued without her, not knowing IF she would EVER return.

Denying that is literally making up excuses for the author and creating words that don't exist.

You misunderstood what I meant by the deception part. I was just summarizing what Kotori and Tsubasa did in chapter 31. What they did included forgiving Pochi. I get that. What they did not do is reconcile their past goals with what they are currently doing.

 

[lbl33a]

This was almost certainly axed. The author writes in the afterword, page 34, "I was very sad when it was decided this would be ending." No wonder things did not all get spelled out.

 

[Katfisher]

Rip in peace delicious trap.

 

[diablo43]

@nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv

Reread the beginning. You are right that Tsubasa and Kotori wanted a girl band for empowering girls. However, the only reason that the girls wanted a girl only band was because they hated men (Ch. 8 Pg. 12). There is no other reason given by any band member. It wasn't some idealistic thing about helping girls with only girls.

You misunderstood my counterpoint to your water example. I never said anything about their goal was about being part of a team. I said ([provide water] with {a specific team requirement}) to ([provide water] with {a not so specific team requirement}). You can see that the overarching goal of providing water is still in both parentheses. The only change was the team member composition. Their specific goal is to make music for girls. The band member restriction for only girls was because they hated men due to their backstory.

I did misunderstand your deception point. Sorry.

 

[deltarayedge]

the sad part was this was generic crossdresser angst romcom for the first 8 chapters, and i lost interest the minute it stopped being that because it had already spent 8 chapters as it, should have spent 4 ch max

oh well, might re-binge read it later

lol that starlight letter hmm

S T A R L I G H T S T A G E ? better call namco!

 

[nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv]

@diablo43 Chapter 8, page 12 does not say what you are stating. It says that Pochi can't be in the band if Pochi has a boyfriend because they hate men. That says nothing about their motivation for being in a band. It's just weird to discard their express support for [music for girls by girls] and only focus on the hating men part. They explicitly are in support of it, and that is the clearest motivation for them being in a band.

Their goal was not simply "music to empower girls" their goal was specifically "music to empower girls made specifically by girls because being made by girls makes that music more empowering for girls". The team member composition was very much tied into it all.

And this is getting at my point. Nowhere in chapter 31 or chapter 32 (after they learn that Pochi is a boy) do they even discuss this issue of team composition in relation to making music. The most they say is that they love Pochi's voice. That proves my point in the first place. They could've said something like "we can still empower girls even if we have Pochi". They could've said anything at all. They said nothing.

 

[arimareiji]

@nbhstcqbvvpmacjrmv Their goal was not simply "music to empower girls" their goal was specifically "music to empower girls made specifically by girls because being made by girls makes that music more empowering for girls". The team member composition was very much tied into it all.

You've repeatedly made this claim, and repeatedly told other people to support their case with a chapter/page cite... so why do I not see where you ever did so, despite walls and walls of text?

*goes back to reread*

Okay, now I see why. Because it's not a carefully-conceived master plan or anything like it, it's a toss-off statement BY AGEHA, THE ONE WHO BROUGHT POCHI IN. In a moment where she's so exuberantly enthusiastic, the other two try to bring her back to reality by reminding her to cover her breasts. And the entire wording is "Aim for our girl band!! By girls, for girls, and brings energy to girls!!" Chapter 1, page 13.

The person who made that declaration had accepted Pochi by chapter 3. So why did you wait until chapter 32 to proclaim the entire manga "hot garbage" on that basis?