Kanojo ni Naritai Kimi to Boku

[Captaininvictus]

@mangareader edit: much better explanation on the next page

 

[Letheliah]

@mangareader ah my bad, I'll explain! Where "trans" is the term for people who identify as a gender differing from the one assigned to them at birth, "cis" is the term for people who identify as the gender they were assigned at birth. You may also see "cishet" or cis-heterosexual as a term, and (this is generalizing) referring to the groups of people outside the LGBTQIA+ community, or "straight people", due to the nature of their orientations never having been marginalized.

I mention cis because generally if you are not someone questioning your gender like many trans people find themselves doing, then they might not understand that gender expression (meaning, how they present to the world) and gender identity (the personal sense of one's own gender label) are separate things that can correlate but do not have to. Thus drag! Many drag queens are cis men, not trans, who use crossdressing and performance to express gender roles that masculinity doesn't "allow".

And if that's all very confusing, that's totally valid; gender constructs are fucking weird, and this can takes years for people to learn on their own. xD

Some other trans terms:
[ul]
[*] genderqueer - a spectrum of gender identities that are not exclusively masculine or feminine‍
[*] nb or enby - non-binary; genderqueer; means identifying as something other than the current gender binary (man or woman)
[*] agender - literally translated as 'without gender'. It can be seen either as a non-binary gender identity or as a statement of not having a gender identity.
[*] genderfluid - a gender identity which refers to a gender which varies over time. A genderfluid person may at any time identify as male, female, agender, or any other non-binary identity, or some combination of identities.[/ul]

While they may not be easy to understand, each of these terms are under the transgender umbrella, and (I believe) are a comment on an individual's perception of themselves and a rejection of their culture's gender roles. Gender is very weird, but as it is unique to each person I guess that's only inevitable. xD

 

[Mangareader]

@Letheliah

Honestly, I don't believe in those nonsensical 'gender identities'.

Sure, Body dysphoria is a thing, but IMO those people need help.

(Especially if you look at the rather high suicide rate among transgenders. Which does not improve after transitioning.

And no, I do not believe that that is due to people 'not accepting them', as they don't even accept themselves.)

Personally don't really care nor mind that someone declares themselves to be a non binary star child, a otterkin, a unicorn. Or whatever the latest trend is, but I refuse to play along with the pronoun nonsense, and IMHO it should be illegal for minors to be put on hormone treatments, as they are not old enough to make such life changing decisions.


(PS thanks for explaining 'cis')

 

[smolbaka]

🤔 wew

 

[Captaininvictus]

@mangareader hey maybe if scum like you stopped treating them like aberrations and monsters, they wouldn't be constantly pressured and stressed about their situation, you absolute garbage person.

You don't "believe" in it, how convenient for you. That you compare it to identifying as a unicorn or whatever shitbag transphobic meme is the current rage right now is irrelevant, you have an awful mentality and choose to refuse changing societal norms because you find them anomalous to your comfortable life. Get bent.

 

[Captaininvictus]

How about you moderate the trash comment of @mangareader's for actively choosing to be an ignorant bigot if you're going to do mine for calling him out without using kid gloves, thanks you surely unbiased mods

 

[Letheliah]

@mangareader no problem! I've been researching and interviewing personal accounts in gender issues for a few years now, and the biggest take I got from people trying to tackle normalized transphobia and hate in societies is that ignorance (be it purposeful or unintended) is a big factor in maintaining this regressive and destructive mindset. Being willing to listen and learn how to treat differing people respectfully, if not immediately accept or understand their reality, is a good face to have.
Choosing to disregard this trust and continuing to be disrespectful to other people after having been explained why it's regressive and harmful, is not a good face and simply reveals someone's preference for bigotry and hate.

So I would ask you to use people's preferred pronouns if they ask you, even if you don't understand the concept. It's literally the easiest respect to give, and to deliberately do otherwise is actively claiming bigotry against that individual and makes you a shitty person that no one is going to want to associate with. Considering a person's identity has nothing to do with your belief in them—they exist despite the extent of your understanding—deliberately misgendering them is transphobic and evil, and people would have every right to dislike and mistrust anything you ever say (especially if any communication was done in bad faith; why should they believe you?)

Transgender people do suffer suicide, depression, and anxiety, with the biggest factor for them being the aggressive and exclusionary treatment from members in their society, so not tolerating transphobia and deliberate triggers by transphobes actively helps save lives suffering suicidal ideation and discriminatory assault. Being open to trans concerns is a kindness I'm glad more and more cis and questioning people are making themselves aware to because it's literally making the world a kinder place, and we need more of that in the isolation of this neoliberal capitalist culture.

 

[Letheliah]

@mangareader also you bring up a recent crux of frustration of mine living in the USA, because I absolutely agree transgender individuals deserve a right to proper healthcare; I know the United States Healthcare system is utter shit (for anyone that isn't a rich white man), and it absolutely is being rationed by nature of our current society. As a developed nation and rich with as much power as it claims to have, this is unacceptable. The poor and working class are hit hardest, and this leaves the transgender individuals among them, who are often impoverished/homeless due to rejection from transphobic families/communities, falling through the cracks and forgotten/dismissed (most especially if they are black).
I really hope America manages to continue to check it's apathy and push universal affordable healthcare that can effectively provide mental health and emotional support for the poor and marginalized communities; we need more teachers and counselors and family like in this manga who are so willing to be supportive and empathetic because the overall goal is allowing people to grow, not pit them against one another. This manga is so interesting because medical health, mental health, and transgender issues are treated in such different manners there than in the western world, and it fascinates me how they all weave together in comparison and put on display (or fantasized within) the framework of this manga!
Anyway... lol /rant

 

[Mangareader]

@Letheliah Calling someone a bigot because they refuse to use nonsensical pronouns like Xhir is surely going to change their mind.

For all the flaws 'capitalist western countries' have, I would still consider them the most tolerant and free places to live in.

 

[Letheliah]

Oh no I'm not saying this to change a bigot's mind; you see, people who purposely misgender someone to be cruel and invalidate someone's right of respectful etiquette (like a bigot believing they have any ability or right to label another person, be they pronouns, name, class, or orientation) are probably beyond hope of any civil conversation, at least until they manage to overcome their pride and hate to apologize and do better instead of perpetuating the worse.
No, I say it because it's a fact that people don't have to feel bad about ignoring the bigots and their bullshit for what it is being called out for, and respecting someone's pronouns is literally the lowest effort of respect anyone can do. Transphobics have no excuse, this conversation is so 2015 and people can do better.

^{And I'm not going to go into the flaws of western capitalism in terms of neoliberalism's cultural isolation, it's just too broad a subject, but it is extremely nuanced and it is at fault for the genocide of several cultures, such like Native Americans and Maori prior to their being colonized, who have been historically proven to have an understanding of gender beyond just the western binary. I encourage people to look into these cultures, they're very fascinating!}

 

[Mangareader]

"White man nations bad"

Hilarious, as if 'we' have a monopoly on genocide or colonization, what're you going to bring up next? Slavery from 150+ years ago? (Which is still ongoing in parts of Africa and the middle east.)

 

[Letheliah]

Aaand blocked; I'd rather have constructive conversations with people that don't lack empathy, by nature that they'd at least listen to what I had to say, but for some reason it's just so easy to rile up and find the transphobes and bad faith bigots on this thread... and all just from asking them to try being nice. It's not hard. If y'all don't want to, you literally only have your own actions to blame when people call you out on it and aptly ignore you.

Don't even bother giving the trolls your anger y'all; just know they're being hateful and uncooperative and block them.

 

[Captaininvictus]

@mangareader you have worms in your brain. Get off 4chan, it's broken you

 

[Imryse]

It IS a mental illness. If I called myself Joan of Arc and demanded everyone comply and tried to start a crussade against all those that didn't, I'd be locked up. They'd say I have pychosis, probably the a result of schziophreia. This is the same thing, except without it being a specific person. This isn't about hatred, or anything of the sort. I don't want to read a manga about this, or depression or suicide, or any of a host of other mental health issues. I'm here to read adventure and romance and slice of life. Just properly label such things, if they were I'd have never posted messages here or committed other such "violences" againt 'you'.

 

[Letheliah]

I can't read Imryse's comment so I'm going to pretend it's nice things like acknowledging this manga has so much nuance and hidden depth they hadn't considered... and generally just ignore the pattern of their previous comments that suggest it's actually probably them complaining about how they wish they didn't have to read content they don't like... by willingly commenting on the content they don't like.

You can go. If you don't like it maybe this story wasn't made for you. :shrug:

 

[Mmmmello]

@Imryse Gender dysphoria is recognized as a mental illness as well as a contributor to mental illnesses like depression, being transgender is different as it means to identify as a gender different from the one was assigned at birth. So some transgender people have a mental illness (gender dysphoria), but not all do and its not necessary for someone to have gender dysphoria to identify as trans. WHO even removed 'gender identity disorders' from the classification of mental illnesses, so how you feel about the matter doesn't really hold up to how professionals of the field consider it a mental illness or not. Also if you started identifying as Joan of Arc honestly people would just avoid you and make hiring opportunities harder to come buy. By chance you stumble into a therapists office; any therapist worth their salt would be a bit careful to jump the gun on a schizophrenia diagnosis because of all the anti-psychotic medication that comes with that diagnosis.

 

[EcchiLove]

since this is a heavy drama secction can someone just tell my if theres really romance with the MC duo.

 

[AnonDePlume]

@EcchiLove main female lead has an unrequited crush on other female lead, and we have yet to learn if it’ll actually go anywhere. It’s mostly a manga about identity and how one perceives others, perceives themselves, and how other people perceive them, so romance is taking a bit of a back seat

 

[Imryse]

@mmmmello The WHO caved to political pressure, and regardless if it's schizophrenia or not, I'd still be crazy.

 

[dancingoncrocodiles]

@Imryse Joan of Arc? are you some kind of history dork