Kanojo, Okarishimasu - Vol. 21 Ch. 177 - The Girlfriend and the Tiger’s Den (Part 2)

[arimareiji]

@S0viet_Noob

To be fair, I'm sure someone at some point really did say "I hate this manga and I'm going to drop it." And it probably happened more than one week.

But at some point, the "OMGZ ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO HATE THE MANGA SHOULD DROP IT LIKE YOU SAY YOU WILL EVERY WEEK" brigade stopped needing anyone to actually say it, and kept railing on every week about how it happens all the time... when what they really mean is "Go away, I don't want to hear anyone criticize the manga". But I guess that doesn't sound as cool as "OMGZ etc etc".

And as you may have been pointing out, I have made this criticism two weeks running. I'm as tired of hearing several people yell every week about something that hasn't been happening, as they were tired of it back when it actually did happen.

_{Edit: Ack, misspelled the name of the person I was replying to. My apologies, I think that got it.}

 

[Vladowski]

Just get NTR'd already pussy bitch.

 

[S0viet_Noob]

@arimareiji

I understand. It's like a pyramid in value terms.

people complaining = 3
people complaining about the complaining that sometimes isn't there = 2.5
people complaining about the people complaining about the complaining when there is no complaining = 1
and then there is Bestgirl_Ruka = 69420666

 

[starlightcitypro]

Thank you for translating.

People on here hate this manga but honestly ever since the movie arc, Kazuya has come across as an actual human being and a lot of readers, some who I suspect are very immature or younger don't get it.

 

[arimareiji]

@S0viet_Noob @arimareiji

I understand. It's like a pyramid in value terms. (collapsing for space)

Spoiler

people complaining = 3
people complaining about the complaining that sometimes isn't there = 2.5
people complaining about the people complaining about the complaining when there is no complaining = 1
and then there is Bestgirl_Ruka = 69420666

😅b (my approximation of a thumbs-up)

A belated thought, speaking of people complaining... in this thread it seems like a lot of people are getting sick of the mangaka reminding us every few pages that the girls are beautiful. Remember when the translators started turning a lot of the "she's beautiful" "so hawt" "she's top-class" etc into silly jokes for a little while? Maybe they were right after all.

If there were a good way to make it clear that <this is just a troll comment to replace yet another background character making a trite comment on someone's beauty and we can't translate them with a straight face any more>, I'd actually be glad for the change of pace.

(Ymmv on whether it further reflects the way the girls are treated like objects, whose value is mostly determined by how much men want to bed them.)

 

[lustfulpain]

Why people hating. Chapter wasn’t even bad. Yeah it’s a little slow, but I don’t see any reason to hate on it. Kazuya’s been developing since we first got introduced to him.

 

[Nihilist1]

@starlightcitypro Not really, kazuya's progression is a messy one in this series. Movie arc is supposed to be his milestone to push him out of his bubble especially on how he tried new things, tackling a lot of new issues unknown to him, raising his self-esteem, and most certainly on how she sees chizuru after spending a lot of time with her. Like seriously, we see how ballsy he was when barging in to the room and setting up the projector for both chizuru and her grandma despite chizuru's warning, means that he knew all along how chizuru worked at this point with her tough attitude at the front while hiding her weakness behind it. That was a fine arc.

But after all that what the author decided to do? He basically returned kazuya back to what he was pre-movie arc. The indication is clear on the arc when chizuru broke down in front of him and he still had the NERVE to think that was an all act, where did all that progression go? Not to mention how he still leers at her and act fidgety in front of her just because of lunch invitation, reiji still doesn't give his due to kazuya's character at this point, it's a mess. The heavy reliance on side supporting characters (like mami) just to continue the plot points while denying the MC development he deserves is certainly a big flaw that readers simply can't overlook, nothing wrong to call it out.

No wonder it left a bad taste to the fandom, undermining it simply as reader's immaturity is just tasteless on your part because there is a reason behind it in the first place, tho I do agree it should be done in constructive manner not a simple 'this mc is trash ree'.

However if you talk about this particular chapter, it is not so bad, dunno where the hate comes from since it really shows kazuya on a new environment.

 

[ShinruGlen]

Well the pressure of the event he was invited is quite heavy since he never considered himself a bigshot who can easily handle those kind of bigshot people who somehow had fame on their own well this much is quite expected cause he never trained himself to deal with this kind of people not to mention he already suck on handling an ultra-rare rental girlfriend who he rent almost everyday if he had the cash to pay for it

Well i guess we gotta have some twist here and i wanna see what would our ikemen rival would do here either he helps or make him stop chasing on chizuru cause they don't fit each other well that much is true though he is not the mc so fuck-off and move on lol oh i forgot the annoying selfish self-proclaimed girlfriend who never stop doing anooying shits well i'm also waiting on the rejection of that annoying shit though i admit that she maybe quite annoying her feelings are real but the mc's feeling what matter cause he is already head over heels on chizuru

 

[etriuswimbleton]

Yeah I can agree somewhat that Kazuya still doesn't have that much good chemistry with Chizuru. But would make an interesting case even without chemistry that they would still hit it off. Would like to see how that works out here.

 

[Lati0s]

@Fauchard
@ArcTicKronos

Spoiler

From what I read the umi guy or whoever invited them will force a kiss onto chizuru, kazuya will see that and run away and basically the story will go from kazuya chasin after chizuru to the other way around. No idea if they are true, and I can’t find the original comment but regardless I definitely think something major will go down during the party.

 

[S0viet_Noob]

@Lati0s

No way in hell.

If that happens, I'm burning a building down.

 

[arimareiji]

@S0viet_Noob @Lati0s

No way in hell.

If that happens, I'm burning a building down.

Daaaaaaang.

It's funny how some people (e.g. the previously mentioned brigade) bluster and fume and rage impotently when something happens that they don't like, burning hot... but all that superheated air sputters out into smoke and ash.

While others burn cold, and squeeze a whole lot of import into a handful of words. 😉

 

[S0viet_Noob]

@arimareiji

While others burn cold, and squeeze a whole lot of import into a handful of words. 😉

Others such as yoursef?

Believe it or not, I used to be one of those people.

Note: I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy it, rather I find it impossible that it would happen.
I'd call it a reaction to an improbable speculation rather than impotent rage towards something I'm vexed about.

 

[arimareiji]

@S0viet_Noob

Actually, if anything I think I'm much closer to (if not in) the first group. 😅

Imo you'd be closer to (if not in) the second group, of people who say less but their words carry more weight. (^_^)b

And if you really did intend for the post I was quoting to reference KyoAni with dark humor, it's particularly well-honed. (I'm not at all sure, but I think the "Imo" sentence above is true either way.)

 

[WhisCalifa69]

@Lati0s no fkn way...

Spoiler

if that happens, then DomeKano 2.0 could happen and the Ruka could get her way for a while.

 

[S0viet_Noob]

@arimareiji

When it comes to my understanding of romance, I guess you could say that.

I'm not saying every person who writes romance shares the same definition of love. That is the reason why I butt heads with @startwindowsnormally all the time. Our interpretations of things are polar opposites. If you look at it like I do, you'd understand why I don't (typically) complain here. The awful wait times, the zero-progress movement, and all of it. Seen it all.

I wouldn't say all my words carry weight. Outside of here, I contain the vocabulary of a redditor.

 

[starlightcitypro]

@Nihilist1

I see your point, but to me Kazuya is a young guy in his early 20s struggling with really bad anxiety and self esteem issues, so his behavior doesn't really seem all that off to me. He's supposed to be awkward. And he's in love, so throw that in and yes the guy is a mess. But he tries his best, despite it all. The movie arc is what made me actually start to like him.

Chizuru puts up an emotional wall so he doesn't know know her thoughts and I think that compounds his anxiety issues. To her credit, I think she just realizes that Kaz is awkward and still accepts that about him. She knows at this point that he is a good guy at heart.

I understand reader criticism of the story pacing, I do. But the whole bitching about Kazuya every single week...lord, don't these ppl get tired??

 

[Bestgirl_Ruka]

@S0viet_Noob

Spoiler

😘

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@S0viet_Noob
The post I'm responding to below:

Spoiler

At least introduce them to a few of your friends before wondering off.
It's not like she went willingly. She didn't say "Oi, Kazuya~simp-kun! I'm going to visit some friends, brb lmao!!!!!"

And you keep looking at the general statistics, requirements, and sins of Mizuhara Chizuru. I personally think that it can't be judged that way. Have you ever met or seen someone meet a potential lover and the first thing on mind is "Will they fulfill my long term goals? Are we compatible in any way? Will they satisfy me?"

I think it's safe to assume you haven't. If you love somebody, then the first thing you think of shouldn't be the compatibility. If they want it to work, they can make it work. If it doesn't, that is what break ups and divorces are for. This is one of those things in which you can do again. The only problem is that nobody will date Kazuya except Ruka, in which case he's already broken up with 🤣

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and yes. The Ruka argument doesn't stand because Kazuya still played Chizuru off as his girlfriend. It basically equates to blackmail in terms of severity

I think the points you are trying to make actually reinforce my argument instead of making a case against it.
Collapsed for space:

Spoiler

> 'It's not like she went willingly. She didn't say "Oi, Kazuya~simp-kun! I'm going to visit some friends, brb lmao!!!!!"'
So you're saying that Chizuru is an unwilling actor in this series, almost on par with Rey from Star Wars. Are you going to argue that Chizuru had the inability to wave Kazuya over, either verbally, or nonverbally? She clearly lacked the will. She lacks initiative, and intuition, making her seem less of a character, and more of a plot device. From Chizuru's attire we can infer that she knows how to operate at parties like this, meaning her mannerisms were inexcusable.

> 'Have you ever met or seen someone meet a potential lover and the first thing on mind is "Will they fulfill my long term goals? Are we compatible in any way? Will they satisfy me?" ... If you love somebody, then the first thing you think of shouldn't be the compatibility'
I agree, whipping out a check-list and comparing compatibility requirement shouldn't be the first thing on your mind, we're humans not robots. That being said, most successful people and relationships will gather this compatibility data via conversation, and will subconsciously also gather information on whether how a person will help/hinder you. Finding out if you are compatible is should be a top priority before entering into a serious relationship/marriage.

> "If they want it to work, they can make it work. If it doesn't, that is what break ups and divorces are for. This is one of those things in which you can do again."
Divorces are serious actions, with serious consequences, for serious situations. Unfortunately, love blinds a person to another's faults, this has led many incompatible people to rush into a relationship only for the "love" to wear off, and then reality sets in, leading to a lot of people getting divorces (outside of serious situation like domestic abuse). Marriage isn't something you want to "do again" as divorce brings endless legal paper work, fees, alimony, child custody, emotional and mental trauma. It's important to have confidants/family that can objectively tell you if they see red flags in your relationship. Kazuya and Chizuru both seem to be lacking a confidant in their lives.

> "The Ruka argument doesn't stand because Kazuya still played Chizuru off as his girlfriend. It basically equates to blackmail in terms of severity"
You'll have to refresh me on which argument you're talking about, I seem to have spaced out. Also, don't worry, I don't overlook Ruka's sins either, I keep a running tab on those as well.

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@Ragegamer334
Your phrasing confuses me, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but this is what I feel you're trying to tell me.
1. What Chizuru did was wrong
2. Chizuru and Kazuya like each other there's lots of evidence to support that

I agree, that what Chizuru did was wrong, and I've never said that Kazuya and Chizuru don't like each other, there's definitely chemistry between the two, just not compatibility. What happens when the emotional high wears off and they realize that neither of them can be truly happy inside their relationship?