Kenja no Deshi wo Nanoru Kenja
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
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- Aug 16, 2020
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- 2
Mobofdeer, the previous translator has dropped the series. And they took down all of their works, idk why. At least i've got the chance to read it first
Fed-Kun's army
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- Apr 27, 2020
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- 98
well, once up in the net, it never leave. Just search on other site and you will find the missing ch. or just read the raw jp, or wait for other to tl again, or just buy the raw / wait for official en tl.
https://mobofdeer.wordpress.com/2020/11/13/removal-of-content/
AHHHHHHHH
Madokami only has mobofdeer's chapters 24, 25 and 30 oh god I regret not reading this earlier so much. They weigh in at 25MiB apiece, and I doubt the other aggregators have that level of quality.
On the other hand, ublock has a field day from mobofdeer's website, so I'll just assume it was a scam all along, so... I wonder if someone wants to translate this series all over again... plz....
AHHHHHHHH
Madokami only has mobofdeer's chapters 24, 25 and 30 oh god I regret not reading this earlier so much. They weigh in at 25MiB apiece, and I doubt the other aggregators have that level of quality.
On the other hand, ublock has a field day from mobofdeer's website, so I'll just assume it was a scam all along, so... I wonder if someone wants to translate this series all over again... plz....
Group Leader
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- Aug 28, 2020
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- 132
@valconius Just go to Manga Fox, they have it all and rarely ever delete anything - don't link to aggregator sites with pirated official chapters, please
I prefer MD for its reader but the fake "justice" on this site os really annoying.
"Hey we pirate manga and you can read it for free for years, but sometimes we will delete some chapters when an official release comes out" is just a broken logic.
To begin with most people reading manga on here are mostly incapable of purchasing the offcial release either due to their location, age or fiance (especailly for more obscure titles). The people who can buy the manga and want to support the artist will buy it regardless of the ENG version. Why even put the effort into translating it for people without access to then take the access away.
EDIT not to mention the ENG release of novels and manga is always years behind the JP version. We've read it up to ch 44 on here, ok well time to wait 2 or 3 years for the english version to catch up to chapter 45. 😊 I could learn Japaneese and translate it my self in that bloody time period.
I prefer MD for its reader but the fake "justice" on this site os really annoying.
"Hey we pirate manga and you can read it for free for years, but sometimes we will delete some chapters when an official release comes out" is just a broken logic.
To begin with most people reading manga on here are mostly incapable of purchasing the offcial release either due to their location, age or fiance (especailly for more obscure titles). The people who can buy the manga and want to support the artist will buy it regardless of the ENG version. Why even put the effort into translating it for people without access to then take the access away.
EDIT not to mention the ENG release of novels and manga is always years behind the JP version. We've read it up to ch 44 on here, ok well time to wait 2 or 3 years for the english version to catch up to chapter 45. 😊 I could learn Japaneese and translate it my self in that bloody time period.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2019
- Messages
- 25
@Geth270:
I can't speak for any other groups, but we don't translate it for people without access, we translate it to build up interest in a series so that it can get officially picked up. Once it does get picked up, we remove the chapters to encourage people to buy the official release and avoid legal trouble. Our group started randomly translating stuff for free on our own time, and we reserve the right to remove it if we want. If you prefer aggregators who steal and monetize other people's translations without any hesitation, that's your choice, but don't pretend you have any more moral high ground than we do.
@valconius: It's a free WordPress blog. I can't comment on what WordPress tries to do to you, but it's free for us to make a disposable website to post stuff. WordPress is a very common blog platform, though, so while it might be annoying, it's most likely not trying to do anything malicious to your computer, at least.
I can't speak for any other groups, but we don't translate it for people without access, we translate it to build up interest in a series so that it can get officially picked up. Once it does get picked up, we remove the chapters to encourage people to buy the official release and avoid legal trouble. Our group started randomly translating stuff for free on our own time, and we reserve the right to remove it if we want. If you prefer aggregators who steal and monetize other people's translations without any hesitation, that's your choice, but don't pretend you have any more moral high ground than we do.
@valconius: It's a free WordPress blog. I can't comment on what WordPress tries to do to you, but it's free for us to make a disposable website to post stuff. WordPress is a very common blog platform, though, so while it might be annoying, it's most likely not trying to do anything malicious to your computer, at least.
Group Leader
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- Aug 28, 2020
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- 132
@DeerA
First of all lets me adress this: "If you prefer aggregators who steal and monetize other people's translations without any hesitation, that's your choice, but don't pretend you have any more moral high ground than we do."
You're not much diffrent from the "aggregators" you speak of, your hobby is literarly stealing manga and realising it to the public for free. You're basically stealing other peoples work. At that point whether you do some transformative work or get some pocket change from ads or not is not gonna change your moral stading a whole lot.
I'm not against piracy because there are benefits to it, but if we're talking about taking a "moral high groud" it's you thats preteding to have some not me. I'm just stating things for what they are and piracy is piracy. Taking down chapters after you've done the deed doesn't make you the good guys.
"I can't speak for any other groups, but we don't translate it for people without access, we translate it to build up interest in a series so that it can get officially picked up."
I mean, that whole sentence just contradicts it self. If you're traslating to build up interest than is because there isn't any, and there isn't any because the audiance you're translating for doesn't speak or read Japneese so they need translations to get involved. That means that if you don't translate, they don't have access to it. So yes YOU ARE translating for people with no access. You just refuse access to people with other barriers then language, and if that's your policy then so be it but it's a pretty shitty one.
Sure you have the right to take down the work you've done, I won't argue with that, but just because you do doesn't mean people are just gonna start flooding retailer with orders for the manga after it gets "officially picked up". The discovery of manga here in the west is almost 100% reliant on sites like MD, then a fraction of of the people who read it here will buy an official release to support the creators. If the manga is not accessible here because there are no or missing chapters, almost nobody is buying it whether is has an officail version or not. That's the reality of it. Also the amount of royalties that makes it back to the original creator after it's been adapted for an ENG release is a small fraction compared to what they sell in Japan and hindering the discoverability and acessibility of the manga on free sites hurts it even more.
I'm currently with a group working on Omae Gotoki ga Maou ni Kateru to Omou na (33268), which from what I've gathered your group has done the first chapter for and now kindly taken it down. That manga has merely 7 chapters total, not to mention the first chapter is FREE to access even on official Jpaneese sites because they KNOW that with a manga this obscure if they don't give some access to it for free to get people hooked up on, there will be no room for it to find any form of success. Now thanks to your groups policy the first chapter which is FREE to read for anyone in Japneese is no longer easily available for anybody in English. Clap, clap, clap, truly transcendant level of logic. So now for however long, without ch.1 in place, nobody new will put any interest in the manga. Our group is small and we're all busy in real life, we're working on ch.7 but it won't be until next year that we will be able to get ch.1 done over.
You know, if you're gonna be doing people half assed favours, maybe you should stop altogether. By that, I mean you should quit translating so other groups don't have to later clean up the mess you make. That's my take on it.
Also "avoid legal trouble" my arse. That's the lamest excuse I've ever heard. Who the fuck is after you, the FBI? You think they will care about you translating manga? If any action is gonna be taken then it will be against this site and ones alike, not individual groups.
First of all lets me adress this: "If you prefer aggregators who steal and monetize other people's translations without any hesitation, that's your choice, but don't pretend you have any more moral high ground than we do."
You're not much diffrent from the "aggregators" you speak of, your hobby is literarly stealing manga and realising it to the public for free. You're basically stealing other peoples work. At that point whether you do some transformative work or get some pocket change from ads or not is not gonna change your moral stading a whole lot.
I'm not against piracy because there are benefits to it, but if we're talking about taking a "moral high groud" it's you thats preteding to have some not me. I'm just stating things for what they are and piracy is piracy. Taking down chapters after you've done the deed doesn't make you the good guys.
"I can't speak for any other groups, but we don't translate it for people without access, we translate it to build up interest in a series so that it can get officially picked up."
I mean, that whole sentence just contradicts it self. If you're traslating to build up interest than is because there isn't any, and there isn't any because the audiance you're translating for doesn't speak or read Japneese so they need translations to get involved. That means that if you don't translate, they don't have access to it. So yes YOU ARE translating for people with no access. You just refuse access to people with other barriers then language, and if that's your policy then so be it but it's a pretty shitty one.
Sure you have the right to take down the work you've done, I won't argue with that, but just because you do doesn't mean people are just gonna start flooding retailer with orders for the manga after it gets "officially picked up". The discovery of manga here in the west is almost 100% reliant on sites like MD, then a fraction of of the people who read it here will buy an official release to support the creators. If the manga is not accessible here because there are no or missing chapters, almost nobody is buying it whether is has an officail version or not. That's the reality of it. Also the amount of royalties that makes it back to the original creator after it's been adapted for an ENG release is a small fraction compared to what they sell in Japan and hindering the discoverability and acessibility of the manga on free sites hurts it even more.
I'm currently with a group working on Omae Gotoki ga Maou ni Kateru to Omou na (33268), which from what I've gathered your group has done the first chapter for and now kindly taken it down. That manga has merely 7 chapters total, not to mention the first chapter is FREE to access even on official Jpaneese sites because they KNOW that with a manga this obscure if they don't give some access to it for free to get people hooked up on, there will be no room for it to find any form of success. Now thanks to your groups policy the first chapter which is FREE to read for anyone in Japneese is no longer easily available for anybody in English. Clap, clap, clap, truly transcendant level of logic. So now for however long, without ch.1 in place, nobody new will put any interest in the manga. Our group is small and we're all busy in real life, we're working on ch.7 but it won't be until next year that we will be able to get ch.1 done over.
You know, if you're gonna be doing people half assed favours, maybe you should stop altogether. By that, I mean you should quit translating so other groups don't have to later clean up the mess you make. That's my take on it.
Also "avoid legal trouble" my arse. That's the lamest excuse I've ever heard. Who the fuck is after you, the FBI? You think they will care about you translating manga? If any action is gonna be taken then it will be against this site and ones alike, not individual groups.
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2019
- Messages
- 113
At least anime adaption is confirmed ˚∆˚
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2020
- Messages
- 34
what the FUUUUUUCK y did ch 24-40 get deleted y what the fuck
I preferred the earlier chapters where less was revealed. The newer chapters don't appear to make as much use of the setting, arbitrarily introducing advanced technologies.
Its like a story of modern soldiers fighting cavemen. "And so the modern people killed them all" is a forgone conclusion.
Its like a story of modern soldiers fighting cavemen. "And so the modern people killed them all" is a forgone conclusion.
@DeerA I see, I just haven't checked ublock's stats on WordPress blogs in so long so I didn't realize it had gotten so bad. I read your translations at manganelo (it's whatever the mal-sync Firefox extension offered as a backup aggregator) and found them very entertaining (and Mira's verbal quirks and ye Olde English were especially endearing), thank you very much.
As an aside, not really directed at you but more to a new meme that I never observed among my peers either in childhood or now (ie the cohort I grew up with), is that it is probably a mistake to assert that someone who steals information is someone who has lost the moral high ground. Don't forget every piece of tech you own is backdoor'd, and the first services to receive things like quantum entanglement-based security ("cryptography") are always those with a vested interest in stealing your information. For example, there is nothing stopping people from using democratized DNS servers (really DNS namespaces), except for these entities (both public and private) engaging in conspiracy to, for example, demand root access across practically all their commodities to do something as simple as changing a single configuration file in a phone's operating system. To illustrate the point, there is nothing stopping my grandaunt from using a formally-verified and democratized end-to-end comms system, except for the fact that her phone ("a "Google go" phone) is shipped virtually without a harddrive (can't install apps at all) and supports only Facebook and Whatsapp for alternative comms systems. It is a curious thing to see the more artistic and verbally fluent in society like yourself (but also plenty of other people) to be uncaring about privacy, what with privacy-violating intrusions themselves being baked into default technique ("sell your Manga to buy food because you can't grow it yourself" implying "feed your children supermarket bone broth and don't complain when it fails to yield the same effects as the bone broth your grandparents made") -- not that I mean you explicitly disregard privacy, only that your words have the logical implication that what is currently optional (e2e encryption) will one day be impossible (as is already the case with welfare-based Google go phones - I can buy her a better phone but most aren't in that situation). What I'm saying might not seem to logically tie together because it must sound like I'm justifying stealing, but the point is the emergent technique (c.f. Jacques Ellul's The Technological Society) trends toward fundamentally precluding autonomy as the general population trends toward claiming what was once optional (selling information to live) as fundamentally necessary. Proof of this point requires lived engineering experience I think, but a quick non-technical counterexample to the notion of information as a commodity being OK is, I think, for example: hitherto, you never stole water... right? That doesn't make sense! ... but if you, as is the case in several municipalities with ubiquitous wells, find that you can neither power yourself nor water yourself because household utilities have been shut down because you can't pay yearly expenses of a measly $500-1000 in the USA... but your neighbor has solar panels and a deep and wide water well established 100 years ago (cheap to build back then) and is upgrading his batteries to lithium titanate batteries with 20-100 year lifespans (cheap tomprocure today) and solar cells with lifespans measuring in the millions of years already in the late stages of r&d... and you find direct technical aid is legally all but precluded but welfare aid is encouraged... then certainly something has gone horribly wrong, and here I mean to suggest that something is, like you could read in Ellul's book I mentioned above, not a slippery slope fallacy but indeed a positive feedback loop whose positive feedback is, to put it mildly, roasting individuals for stealing information -- for over time all information necessary to live comes under lock and key, and something as seemingly unassuming as entertainment under lock and key is but an accessory to that social violence, the consequences of which are now ubiquitous and becoming only worse with every passing year (although, this "becoming worse" requires specialist knowledge to logically conclude exists... riscv blabla librerisc blabla arm scalable vector extensions blabla no one would ever care enough to be immune to nom-sequitur counterarguments).
I won't type any more because I am long-winded, but I just thought I'd mention some stuff I've observed that might not be in other people's common sense, perhaps because your muses draw most folk's attentions whereas I, for example, see cheap battery and I wonder why it isn't already all over the place... it's not like the news reports on these things so how else would anyone know? I don't mean to be insulting, I only mean to provide information you and others might not be aware of, not that anyone has to pay attention or anything....
With regard to avoiding legal trouble I must concur that there are quite a number of ways of publishing your work (or hobby) that mathematically guarantee no human short of one with godlike tendrils everywhere could ever identify an email or mailing address to send a cease-and-desist order to you... of the ones that are in use and are not nearly so robust, the only one that is user-friendly is managed by insane asylum people obsessed with ponies... Well, a nice middle ground is something like Matrix, which is like IRC and in fact interacts with IRC, has support on Weechat and Emacs, and supports voip and group video calls... not perfect, but good enough... stop using discord, everyone... no one cares, of course....
EDIT Ah, I just remembered I once asked this site's admins about why some standard database interface for accessing our favorites list and reading progress info wasn't made available. The response was random mockery: "You are an idiot." This struck me as odd seeing as how stuff like accessing GIS data over web XML requests was... well it's literally standardized in about twenty different standards. Bit by bit, more and more private data falls under someone else's lock and key (or just use mal-sync like I do now then you kinda own your data... but the point is it is too unfortunate that mockery of basic sense is the first defense of... certain sorts... as is the general population's preference for nonsense over logical argument).
@Geth270 You should encourage everyone doing scanlation stuff to use Matrix instead of discord (at least until something better shows up). The discord webapp equivalent is called "Element" and was formerly known as Riot instant messenger.
As an aside, not really directed at you but more to a new meme that I never observed among my peers either in childhood or now (ie the cohort I grew up with), is that it is probably a mistake to assert that someone who steals information is someone who has lost the moral high ground. Don't forget every piece of tech you own is backdoor'd, and the first services to receive things like quantum entanglement-based security ("cryptography") are always those with a vested interest in stealing your information. For example, there is nothing stopping people from using democratized DNS servers (really DNS namespaces), except for these entities (both public and private) engaging in conspiracy to, for example, demand root access across practically all their commodities to do something as simple as changing a single configuration file in a phone's operating system. To illustrate the point, there is nothing stopping my grandaunt from using a formally-verified and democratized end-to-end comms system, except for the fact that her phone ("a "Google go" phone) is shipped virtually without a harddrive (can't install apps at all) and supports only Facebook and Whatsapp for alternative comms systems. It is a curious thing to see the more artistic and verbally fluent in society like yourself (but also plenty of other people) to be uncaring about privacy, what with privacy-violating intrusions themselves being baked into default technique ("sell your Manga to buy food because you can't grow it yourself" implying "feed your children supermarket bone broth and don't complain when it fails to yield the same effects as the bone broth your grandparents made") -- not that I mean you explicitly disregard privacy, only that your words have the logical implication that what is currently optional (e2e encryption) will one day be impossible (as is already the case with welfare-based Google go phones - I can buy her a better phone but most aren't in that situation). What I'm saying might not seem to logically tie together because it must sound like I'm justifying stealing, but the point is the emergent technique (c.f. Jacques Ellul's The Technological Society) trends toward fundamentally precluding autonomy as the general population trends toward claiming what was once optional (selling information to live) as fundamentally necessary. Proof of this point requires lived engineering experience I think, but a quick non-technical counterexample to the notion of information as a commodity being OK is, I think, for example: hitherto, you never stole water... right? That doesn't make sense! ... but if you, as is the case in several municipalities with ubiquitous wells, find that you can neither power yourself nor water yourself because household utilities have been shut down because you can't pay yearly expenses of a measly $500-1000 in the USA... but your neighbor has solar panels and a deep and wide water well established 100 years ago (cheap to build back then) and is upgrading his batteries to lithium titanate batteries with 20-100 year lifespans (cheap tomprocure today) and solar cells with lifespans measuring in the millions of years already in the late stages of r&d... and you find direct technical aid is legally all but precluded but welfare aid is encouraged... then certainly something has gone horribly wrong, and here I mean to suggest that something is, like you could read in Ellul's book I mentioned above, not a slippery slope fallacy but indeed a positive feedback loop whose positive feedback is, to put it mildly, roasting individuals for stealing information -- for over time all information necessary to live comes under lock and key, and something as seemingly unassuming as entertainment under lock and key is but an accessory to that social violence, the consequences of which are now ubiquitous and becoming only worse with every passing year (although, this "becoming worse" requires specialist knowledge to logically conclude exists... riscv blabla librerisc blabla arm scalable vector extensions blabla no one would ever care enough to be immune to nom-sequitur counterarguments).
I won't type any more because I am long-winded, but I just thought I'd mention some stuff I've observed that might not be in other people's common sense, perhaps because your muses draw most folk's attentions whereas I, for example, see cheap battery and I wonder why it isn't already all over the place... it's not like the news reports on these things so how else would anyone know? I don't mean to be insulting, I only mean to provide information you and others might not be aware of, not that anyone has to pay attention or anything....
With regard to avoiding legal trouble I must concur that there are quite a number of ways of publishing your work (or hobby) that mathematically guarantee no human short of one with godlike tendrils everywhere could ever identify an email or mailing address to send a cease-and-desist order to you... of the ones that are in use and are not nearly so robust, the only one that is user-friendly is managed by insane asylum people obsessed with ponies... Well, a nice middle ground is something like Matrix, which is like IRC and in fact interacts with IRC, has support on Weechat and Emacs, and supports voip and group video calls... not perfect, but good enough... stop using discord, everyone... no one cares, of course....
EDIT Ah, I just remembered I once asked this site's admins about why some standard database interface for accessing our favorites list and reading progress info wasn't made available. The response was random mockery: "You are an idiot." This struck me as odd seeing as how stuff like accessing GIS data over web XML requests was... well it's literally standardized in about twenty different standards. Bit by bit, more and more private data falls under someone else's lock and key (or just use mal-sync like I do now then you kinda own your data... but the point is it is too unfortunate that mockery of basic sense is the first defense of... certain sorts... as is the general population's preference for nonsense over logical argument).
@Geth270 You should encourage everyone doing scanlation stuff to use Matrix instead of discord (at least until something better shows up). The discord webapp equivalent is called "Element" and was formerly known as Riot instant messenger.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2019
- Messages
- 159
English release price? Im from Poland, get it? Imagine that US [UK might be twice] price can be 3-5 times higher here, and what can i do? Second thing, finding a shop that will offer this manga if any at least, if they have all the volumes and if they supply newer ones, and if we talk about the price, if you are a student then wasting money is the last thing you will do, even if its the things you like. I bought a good book Once, it was 40pln[some goes up to 60 or 120pln],with 2200 per month minus taxes and living expenses you get barely over 1000 to live, buy food, fuel, etc...
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2019
- Messages
- 57
Holy crap I miss out on so much stuff here. Removing chapters like that hurts people who can’t buy it due to being in bad finance. Officials released are normally good or bad sometimes, i love the fan translation more because you get funny stuff. Anyway I made sure to keep copies save on all chapters. If they is plans to release missing chapters again I don’t mind helping out with support. Feel bad for users not able to read it and decided to fully support the series. Love this series as much as any series i fallen for.
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