Machikado Mazoku - Vol. 4 Ch. 48 - A New School Term! The Magical Girl’s New Role!
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2019
- Messages
- 412
@thofheinz
@Loona_Roses
I don't want to turn this into a whole topic or anything, but Momo falling is not really the issue. Right now as a light/dark hybrid you can basically see Momo's true self. She is neither a Magical Girl nor a demon, she is just a grey area and that suits her best. Momo is a kind person at her core. There is not a single instance in the manga where Momo did anything malicious unprompted. When she mistreats Lilith it's always after our little Gosenzo goes way overboard and really bothers Momo too much. And yet Momo is still kind to Lilith unprompted on several occasions despite always getting bitten by her for it. There is also this impression that some people have no doubt that Momo has become more open and wears her emotions more on her sleeve recently, but that is not because she fell to darkness, it's the natural development that occured because she got closer to Shamiko and starts to recover her social life with all the people around her.
Momo can act somewhat cold or frustrated, but she is never cruel. She has a very blunt and "use whatever you can" approach that could be sinister if she was on the wrong side, but she isn't. The fact that her solutions are usually muscles and to beat enemies up comes from her bad experiences outside this peaceful town. Mikan is a lot more collected than her and she still doesn't have an issue with violent solutions, so that tells you a lot. Momo's negative feelings and PTSD were mostly cleansed by Shamiko, but recently everyone seems to bully her and she gets more jealous the more people interact with Shamiko, so that's the main source of her "darkness". If the worst thing you can say about Momo's mental state is that she is jealous because she loves Shamiko too much, then there is really nothing wrong with her.
What should actually be concerning and has nothing to do with falling to darkness or not is her near suicidal disregard for her own well-being and happiness. That's a pretty Magical Girl trait, but she doesn't act any different when fallen, so it's intrinsically part of who she is.
@Loona_Roses
I don't want to turn this into a whole topic or anything, but Momo falling is not really the issue. Right now as a light/dark hybrid you can basically see Momo's true self. She is neither a Magical Girl nor a demon, she is just a grey area and that suits her best. Momo is a kind person at her core. There is not a single instance in the manga where Momo did anything malicious unprompted. When she mistreats Lilith it's always after our little Gosenzo goes way overboard and really bothers Momo too much. And yet Momo is still kind to Lilith unprompted on several occasions despite always getting bitten by her for it. There is also this impression that some people have no doubt that Momo has become more open and wears her emotions more on her sleeve recently, but that is not because she fell to darkness, it's the natural development that occured because she got closer to Shamiko and starts to recover her social life with all the people around her.
Momo can act somewhat cold or frustrated, but she is never cruel. She has a very blunt and "use whatever you can" approach that could be sinister if she was on the wrong side, but she isn't. The fact that her solutions are usually muscles and to beat enemies up comes from her bad experiences outside this peaceful town. Mikan is a lot more collected than her and she still doesn't have an issue with violent solutions, so that tells you a lot. Momo's negative feelings and PTSD were mostly cleansed by Shamiko, but recently everyone seems to bully her and she gets more jealous the more people interact with Shamiko, so that's the main source of her "darkness". If the worst thing you can say about Momo's mental state is that she is jealous because she loves Shamiko too much, then there is really nothing wrong with her.
What should actually be concerning and has nothing to do with falling to darkness or not is her near suicidal disregard for her own well-being and happiness. That's a pretty Magical Girl trait, but she doesn't act any different when fallen, so it's intrinsically part of who she is.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2018
- Messages
- 600
@BugDemon
I think I agree with you. And as I said before, if Sakura thinks things will be okay in that world with Momo's spiritual health in relation to Shamiko, I'll take her word for it.
This series is basically a very sweet and hopeful one, so none of it really worries me as a reader. What does make me concerned in some way is the exploration of what I think is the series' main message, namely the choices we make when we fall in love or commit ourselves to any kind of love.
The "war of the moronic tsunderes" between Momo and Shamiko seems to be the real nexus of difficulty. Shamiko is at her most idiotic when she goes off on this "Momo is my enemy" nonsense, which I suspect even she knows is nonsense at this point. I don't know whether it will become a factor, but it makes me grit my teeth when she does that. What would it mean to be called an enemy when you're putting literally everything into being a friend, even if you know the charge is foolishness? Momo needs affirmation from Shamiko that isn't an admixture of adoration and stiff-arming. I have no idea where that one is going.
I've never thought that Shamiko is stupid, really. It's more like she was in such a tunnel of suffering and general disintegration for most of her life that she never quite integrated beyond three or four years old. Where she is stupid is not having a sense of when to declare the war is over, even in jest, with Momo.
Then there's the peach tsundere. Her fall into love is identical to her fall into darkness.
She's found what she has needed more than anything in her short life, but barriers inside her and outside her are powerful and resilient. So as long as she can't figure out a way to make Shamiko and herself understand what she feels, her combined loneliness and defensiveness will grow and grow as the black hole it clearly is. And she does want to be of the light, whatever that means. She does want to be a good person. Sakura is her role model, her conscience. Sakura and Mikan encourage the best of her past nature, Shamiko brings out the best of her present and future. But as long as Shamiko refuses to stop calling Momo an enemy, and Momo continues to be unclear or silent about how she really perceives the vassalage, and Momo grapples for the courage to confess to her goofy girlfriend, Momo will continue to fall into darkness. I, for one, think there's a reason why it's called "darkness."
The thing I love most about this series, though, is that I don't map much emotion into it and have nothing but trust in the author. It has charted and followed a clear, loving path. Sakura approves. That's good enough for me.
I think I agree with you. And as I said before, if Sakura thinks things will be okay in that world with Momo's spiritual health in relation to Shamiko, I'll take her word for it.
This series is basically a very sweet and hopeful one, so none of it really worries me as a reader. What does make me concerned in some way is the exploration of what I think is the series' main message, namely the choices we make when we fall in love or commit ourselves to any kind of love.
The "war of the moronic tsunderes" between Momo and Shamiko seems to be the real nexus of difficulty. Shamiko is at her most idiotic when she goes off on this "Momo is my enemy" nonsense, which I suspect even she knows is nonsense at this point. I don't know whether it will become a factor, but it makes me grit my teeth when she does that. What would it mean to be called an enemy when you're putting literally everything into being a friend, even if you know the charge is foolishness? Momo needs affirmation from Shamiko that isn't an admixture of adoration and stiff-arming. I have no idea where that one is going.
I've never thought that Shamiko is stupid, really. It's more like she was in such a tunnel of suffering and general disintegration for most of her life that she never quite integrated beyond three or four years old. Where she is stupid is not having a sense of when to declare the war is over, even in jest, with Momo.
Then there's the peach tsundere. Her fall into love is identical to her fall into darkness.
She's found what she has needed more than anything in her short life, but barriers inside her and outside her are powerful and resilient. So as long as she can't figure out a way to make Shamiko and herself understand what she feels, her combined loneliness and defensiveness will grow and grow as the black hole it clearly is. And she does want to be of the light, whatever that means. She does want to be a good person. Sakura is her role model, her conscience. Sakura and Mikan encourage the best of her past nature, Shamiko brings out the best of her present and future. But as long as Shamiko refuses to stop calling Momo an enemy, and Momo continues to be unclear or silent about how she really perceives the vassalage, and Momo grapples for the courage to confess to her goofy girlfriend, Momo will continue to fall into darkness. I, for one, think there's a reason why it's called "darkness."
The thing I love most about this series, though, is that I don't map much emotion into it and have nothing but trust in the author. It has charted and followed a clear, loving path. Sakura approves. That's good enough for me.
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2019
- Messages
- 412
@thofheinz
I think I also mostly agree with your assessment with two minor exceptions.
I really don't think love commitment is the main message of this story and Sakura is not perfect and can be wrong about things.
The main message, as far as I can tell at least, is to form connections and find compromises. The idea of bridging the gap between light and dark is certainly the main plot point, but that also reflects on the message. Working together leads to better results, being kind to your enemies and friends leads to a peaceful and happy city. Finding compromises and complementing each other's strengths will lead to the best outcome.
Sakura may have been a genius and is the savior of so many, but she is still a dork who can be socially incompetent. The way she left Momo behind in another city and never expected her to come back to Sakuragaoka to look for her is very telling of how she doesn't understand everyone quite as well as it may seem. She may have high expectations of Shamiko to mend Momo's heart after seeing the world through her eyes, but she also makes pretty unreasonable decisions, so whether her prediction will come true depends entirely on Shamiko.
I think I also mostly agree with your assessment with two minor exceptions.
I really don't think love commitment is the main message of this story and Sakura is not perfect and can be wrong about things.
The main message, as far as I can tell at least, is to form connections and find compromises. The idea of bridging the gap between light and dark is certainly the main plot point, but that also reflects on the message. Working together leads to better results, being kind to your enemies and friends leads to a peaceful and happy city. Finding compromises and complementing each other's strengths will lead to the best outcome.
Sakura may have been a genius and is the savior of so many, but she is still a dork who can be socially incompetent. The way she left Momo behind in another city and never expected her to come back to Sakuragaoka to look for her is very telling of how she doesn't understand everyone quite as well as it may seem. She may have high expectations of Shamiko to mend Momo's heart after seeing the world through her eyes, but she also makes pretty unreasonable decisions, so whether her prediction will come true depends entirely on Shamiko.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2018
- Messages
- 600
@BugDemon -
You wrote:
"The main message, as far as I can tell at least, is to form connections and find compromises. The idea of bridging the gap between light and dark is certainly the main plot point, but that also reflects on the message. Working together leads to better results, being kind to your enemies and friends leads to a peaceful and happy city. Finding compromises and complementing each other's strengths will lead to the best outcome."
That's fair. And it's set in the context of a war that's been going on for thousands of years where every victory is a defeat, in terms of a global outcome, so the solution you describe is necessary to call the whole thing to the halt.
I have no idea how applicable this might be, but I spent some time studying and doing scholarship on ancient civilizations in the Mideast and this author, intentionally or not, casts some interesting light on the whole business. Lilith goes all the way back to Sumer, but she's best known as a Babylonian demon. The Old Testament has a particular slant on that time, but enough to show that it was a savagely difficult world these demons and angels started fighting in. Demons and supernatural tricksters were conceived and feared for some very good reasons, and the deities were scary as hell.
But in this series the war is over except for the winning side stopping just short of genocide with the losers. It's not that the angels/magical girls are bad or that the demons are harmless, but that this late in the game, it's time to call the war off. And what you described is how this series prescribes that.
Sakura definitely has her problems and has made more than her share of goofy decisions, but she does have an extremely sharp and knowing perspective on how to save that town and keep it safe. The fact that she gave the charge to a demon who she helped save by giving up her core to that demon, and the fact that she can imagine a demon taking care of her beloved magical girl sister, puts her in a strong position of authority, I think. She represents the attitude required for what you described.
Shamiko may be what the whole business depends on, But Sakura delegated that responsibility with great wisdom.
It's a great series, a real joy. There's no doubt that the war will end. But even though I only know a bit of what's coming, it's clear that the peace will not be easily purchased.
(And what terrifying force almost beat Sakura and Joshua and reduced them? Damn. I have a guess, but it's enough to make one's hair stand on end.)
You wrote:
"The main message, as far as I can tell at least, is to form connections and find compromises. The idea of bridging the gap between light and dark is certainly the main plot point, but that also reflects on the message. Working together leads to better results, being kind to your enemies and friends leads to a peaceful and happy city. Finding compromises and complementing each other's strengths will lead to the best outcome."
That's fair. And it's set in the context of a war that's been going on for thousands of years where every victory is a defeat, in terms of a global outcome, so the solution you describe is necessary to call the whole thing to the halt.
I have no idea how applicable this might be, but I spent some time studying and doing scholarship on ancient civilizations in the Mideast and this author, intentionally or not, casts some interesting light on the whole business. Lilith goes all the way back to Sumer, but she's best known as a Babylonian demon. The Old Testament has a particular slant on that time, but enough to show that it was a savagely difficult world these demons and angels started fighting in. Demons and supernatural tricksters were conceived and feared for some very good reasons, and the deities were scary as hell.
But in this series the war is over except for the winning side stopping just short of genocide with the losers. It's not that the angels/magical girls are bad or that the demons are harmless, but that this late in the game, it's time to call the war off. And what you described is how this series prescribes that.
Sakura definitely has her problems and has made more than her share of goofy decisions, but she does have an extremely sharp and knowing perspective on how to save that town and keep it safe. The fact that she gave the charge to a demon who she helped save by giving up her core to that demon, and the fact that she can imagine a demon taking care of her beloved magical girl sister, puts her in a strong position of authority, I think. She represents the attitude required for what you described.
Shamiko may be what the whole business depends on, But Sakura delegated that responsibility with great wisdom.
It's a great series, a real joy. There's no doubt that the war will end. But even though I only know a bit of what's coming, it's clear that the peace will not be easily purchased.
(And what terrifying force almost beat Sakura and Joshua and reduced them? Damn. I have a guess, but it's enough to make one's hair stand on end.)
Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2019
- Messages
- 107
@thofheinz
@BugDemon
I don't think ending the conflict between the dark clan and the light clan is the main point of the plot. As someone mentioned earlier, Ito planned to end everything in volume 3. That means (unless the volume had been very very different from what it ended up being) that she originally planned to end the series without resolving that conflict.
For me, the main objective of MM is to show the growth of Shamiko as a person and the development of her relationship with Momo. Those are issues that have been present since the beginning and have been developed until the present time.
Of course, I am not denying that closing the gap between the two clans is a current plot point, it simply does not seem to me the most relevant for Ito, nor one that she had in mind when she begining the story.
Also, I would like to make it clear that I am only giving my opinion. Feel free to ignore my comment as much as you wish.
@BugDemon
I don't think ending the conflict between the dark clan and the light clan is the main point of the plot. As someone mentioned earlier, Ito planned to end everything in volume 3. That means (unless the volume had been very very different from what it ended up being) that she originally planned to end the series without resolving that conflict.
For me, the main objective of MM is to show the growth of Shamiko as a person and the development of her relationship with Momo. Those are issues that have been present since the beginning and have been developed until the present time.
Of course, I am not denying that closing the gap between the two clans is a current plot point, it simply does not seem to me the most relevant for Ito, nor one that she had in mind when she begining the story.
Also, I would like to make it clear that I am only giving my opinion. Feel free to ignore my comment as much as you wish.
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2019
- Messages
- 139
@Reiba1925
I get the feeling that Monmo is intentional.
BTW, I just noticed the censored hand-holding in those credits. Too "lewd"? LMAO 😆
I get the feeling that Monmo is intentional.
BTW, I just noticed the censored hand-holding in those credits. Too "lewd"? LMAO 😆
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2019
- Messages
- 412
@Reiba1925
I guess you aren't very active in the community. Monmo is an inside joke about Shamiko saying Momo's name cutely.
I guess you aren't very active in the community. Monmo is an inside joke about Shamiko saying Momo's name cutely.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2019
- Messages
- 26
@Reiba1925 Thanks for looking out for us. As @BugDemon said, it was intentional and Panzer said he'd burn us if any of us tried to change it. Lol.
https://b.catgirlsare.sexy/Ab7p.png
https://b.catgirlsare.sexy/Ab7p.png
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2018
- Messages
- 954
I think "cruel" is a bit of a strong word because that implies a degree of sadism or malice. I think she's just very bitter right now. Not just because she's feeling jealousy over having to share Shamiko, but right now she's confronting a lot of pent-up dark emotions that Shamiko absolutely had nothing to do with. (even though she'd take credit for the fall to darkness) I think any judgment you can make on a personality needs to have the context of their mental/emotional status.
My thinking? Momo's this close to getting her sister back. And having to reflect on how she's spent her years since her going missing. Speaking from experience it's easy to be surface-level pleasant and seemingly stable when you're putting your emotions on freeze, like she was before meeting our favorite demon girl. It's like trapping a sci-fi monster inside the cryo-deck on your ship. It's not dead, but so long as you keep that section of the ship under ice it won't cause problems for the near future. Shamiko having a strong lead on Sakura essentially activated the thawing sequence.
I think Momo's in a strange headspace where she's emotionally clinging to Shamiko for both emotional support and the fact that she's the key to getting her sister back. I do think she's in genuine love with Shamiko, but it's very much not coming from an emotionally stable space right now. That's exactly why Shamiko seriously needs to cut out the whole "you're my enemy!" shit. If there was ever a time for it, it's not right now. Momo's going to have a breakdown eventually, I think, if she isn't already in the midst of one.
My thinking? Momo's this close to getting her sister back. And having to reflect on how she's spent her years since her going missing. Speaking from experience it's easy to be surface-level pleasant and seemingly stable when you're putting your emotions on freeze, like she was before meeting our favorite demon girl. It's like trapping a sci-fi monster inside the cryo-deck on your ship. It's not dead, but so long as you keep that section of the ship under ice it won't cause problems for the near future. Shamiko having a strong lead on Sakura essentially activated the thawing sequence.
I think Momo's in a strange headspace where she's emotionally clinging to Shamiko for both emotional support and the fact that she's the key to getting her sister back. I do think she's in genuine love with Shamiko, but it's very much not coming from an emotionally stable space right now. That's exactly why Shamiko seriously needs to cut out the whole "you're my enemy!" shit. If there was ever a time for it, it's not right now. Momo's going to have a breakdown eventually, I think, if she isn't already in the midst of one.
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2019
- Messages
- 139
@MidnighTea
"Momo's going to have a breakdown eventually"
Indeed... and they went and tried to take away her cat healing time. Definitely not great for her current state. The sport festival may turn out more thrilling than planned. Of course, there has got to be a reason to use Ogura's super pill, so if not the festival then something else does it, it's perfectly flagged at any rate.
"Momo's going to have a breakdown eventually"
Indeed... and they went and tried to take away her cat healing time. Definitely not great for her current state. The sport festival may turn out more thrilling than planned. Of course, there has got to be a reason to use Ogura's super pill, so if not the festival then something else does it, it's perfectly flagged at any rate.
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2019
- Messages
- 412
Now that I think about it... the sports festival actually never happened. I guess it wasn't important. The Mikan arc completely distracted me from the fact that the festival wasn't even shown.
Though the drug definitely becomes useful soon.
@MidnighTea
I am pretty sure Momo isn't that worried about Sakura anymore. When she told Shamiko that she is fine as long as she knows Sakura is save inside Shamiko I believe her. Much like Shamiko not caring that much about undoing the seal or freeing her father, Momo has kind of accepted the current situation with Sakura's core, especially because Sakura herself said it's fine. Momo was actually FREED of a huge burden when Shamiko told her that. She is finally free to do what she wants rather than being a magical girl or searching for her sister. And what she chose was to protect Shamiko and be with her, no matter how little she can openly show it.
Though the drug definitely becomes useful soon.
@MidnighTea
I am pretty sure Momo isn't that worried about Sakura anymore. When she told Shamiko that she is fine as long as she knows Sakura is save inside Shamiko I believe her. Much like Shamiko not caring that much about undoing the seal or freeing her father, Momo has kind of accepted the current situation with Sakura's core, especially because Sakura herself said it's fine. Momo was actually FREED of a huge burden when Shamiko told her that. She is finally free to do what she wants rather than being a magical girl or searching for her sister. And what she chose was to protect Shamiko and be with her, no matter how little she can openly show it.
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2019
- Messages
- 412
@thofheinz
That is next chapter and it's just preparation for the festival. After that we transition into the Mikan situation and then they never go back to the festival stuff as far as I remember.
That is next chapter and it's just preparation for the festival. After that we transition into the Mikan situation and then they never go back to the festival stuff as far as I remember.
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2019
- Messages
- 412
@gpot97
Well I read all the translations on /a/ and at least have a rudimentary understanding of the raws beyond that, sure.
But that is a mixed bag, because Shamilator's translations are lacking to say the least and my understanding of Japanese is painfully limited, so I mostly can only guess what's actually going on beyond Chapter 56. On top of that my memory isn't great with things I only read once, so take it with even more salt.
Well I read all the translations on /a/ and at least have a rudimentary understanding of the raws beyond that, sure.
But that is a mixed bag, because Shamilator's translations are lacking to say the least and my understanding of Japanese is painfully limited, so I mostly can only guess what's actually going on beyond Chapter 56. On top of that my memory isn't great with things I only read once, so take it with even more salt.
Similar threads
