Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2018
- Messages
- 1,212
Shit did I miss spell her name. My mistake Clara
Mairimashita! Iruma-kun - Vol. 33 Ch. 292 - Dance Dance Dance
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- May 28, 2019
- Messages
- 3,005
Thanks for an amazing chapter!
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2018
- Messages
- 1,574
Thanks for the update!
Group Leader
- Joined
- May 24, 2018
- Messages
- 2,608
It feels like some action is brewing...
god i hate these elite bastards. I wonder if this is all a set up to show that the underworld is actually really fucked up with social injustice, famine, war and desease and Iruma was just sheltered from all that these last 2 years.
Or maybe the author is just a hardcore maritocrat and the rich beautiful people are just better than everyone else and everything they have is rightfully deserved and earned and the poor ugly talentless people aren't doing their best so its right to stomp on them like the vermin they are.
Or maybe the author is just a hardcore maritocrat and the rich beautiful people are just better than everyone else and everything they have is rightfully deserved and earned and the poor ugly talentless people aren't doing their best so its right to stomp on them like the vermin they are.
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2023
- Messages
- 67
Ur skecthy as fk but I shall go with it
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2019
- Messages
- 2,604
how dare they interrupted the ship moment
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2020
- Messages
- 867
This is the calm before the storm, but oh what calm this is. The Trickster Plan huh? Now that sounds interesting, can’t wait to see how this changes things moving forward. Ameri and Iruma were both having so much fun, and the moment they were stolen from each other, you could tell Ameri at least was most certainly annoyed.
Ooh, secrets? What secrets are we spilling now? Is it the backstabby kind? Are you a Spy? Are you on our team?
Do the conga!
Ooh, secrets? What secrets are we spilling now? Is it the backstabby kind? Are you a Spy? Are you on our team?
Do the conga!
...Have...have you not been paying attention? The Underworld is built on "might makes right" and personal greed. That has been made abundantly clear. Pretty much every demon we see is an elite, because they have some power that allows them to keep from getting squashed, fit into the system, and to live in the limited amount of their world that isn't like the forest in the Harvest Festival, I.E. swarming with wildlife actively trying to murder you.
Demons, having been shaped by this world, have been outright stated to be innately and inherently violent, self-centered, and destructive, as shown by those who "return to origins" being exactly that. The whole happy social structure of this world is a thin veneer of civilization, imposed to counterattack the base instincts of a race quite happy to devour the bodies and souls of humans, who are built to naturally revel in havoc, cruelty, and destruction. Their nature is to be fucked up. They succeed in escaping this to varying degrees, but that's their baseline, and all of them still retain that darker nature.
All that said...why and how the heck would there be famine, when magic to make plants instantly grow is considered basic level? The bigger issue is finding food that isn't trying to actively murder you, and dealing with the ways it could do so. There's definitely war (the Dorodoro brothers got held back because they went to the battlefield instead of class), although who it's against is unclear. Possibly magical beasts. Or maybe just demons who are lost in their Wicked Phases, or who don't regulate themselves. Disease...again, high magic setting, probably not that much of an issue. "Justice", social or otherwise, isn't much of a concern to them, as stated. The weak do tend to get squashed. Whether that's right or wrong is irrelevant, because demons are generally amoral.
Overall, I think the best response I have is this; They're demons. What do you expect?
A more nuanced critique of the power dynamics of their world would be nice. I think there is something very dark about this manga and how it portrays power.
Iruma is an elite in this world, probably closest than anyone to the title of next king of demons, yet human he remains. Yet we still have to see his human traits clashing fundamentally with demon tradition and way of life. He accepts this world's rules and goes with the flow, and has yet to fundamentally question his place in it. Why do schools have meritocratic cast rankings? Why is there aristocracy and why is there a small group of elite demons controlling everything from education to borders to government, army and big companies? Isn't it fucked up that prisoners are forced to work for a Disneyland-like park like slaves?
His role as a human has only served him as a tool to continue to escalate in demon society, but his moral point of view is still 100% aligned with the demons of the elite. The fact that he grew up in the human world on the "Might makes right" and the "natural law" is implying that he was already a "demon" at heart. His human perspective hasn't shown. I'm not saying the kid needs to instaurate a republican democracy with divided powers and stuff, but at least question your place in this new world more.
I'm concerned because i've yet to see any real critique of any of the things i've mentioned. So far? meritocracy is good and it works. Aristocracy is good and it works. Might makes right. The most talented and smartest people make the best leaders and genetics are probably the most important of anything to determine one's worth.
Anyone who opposes the system is objectively evil and/or has been deluded or is in some way mentally or spiritually empaired, so no one really can give a real alternative to the status quo.
Iruma spent a chunk of his childhood in the jungle, alone. He's been hired out as child labor by his parents since a very young age. In Chapter 0, implied to be shortly before meeting Sullivan, he's working on a fishing boat, which is actually pretty dangerous. He's fought bears. He got entangled in a shoot out with the Yakuza (or maybe the mafia) at what appears to be the age of five. It's not at all surprising he rolls with the situation, because he's been dragged all around the world, into many different living situations of varying levels of danger, constantly forcing him to adapt to new conditions. And the human world treated him much worse than the demons ever have. Why would he want to impose its morality onto anything?
That said, if you want someone to take apart their social system, I can take a crack at it.
For starters, I'd quibble about the term "aristocracy," at least in the sense I think you mean. The landowning kind that's primarily a holdover from a truly feudal system. Their "aristocrats" have more in common with organized crime families, honestly. Or, more charitably, they have a highly clannish, semi-feudal society. Established families adopt those who show talent in their fields of interest as members (possibly by marriage) and subordinates, providing protection and standing in exchange for services. Both stability and power depend heavily on social networking between clans, and especially the personal relationships formed between their members, which is one reason why schools like Bablys exist and are important.
This is actually a social structure that I see mangaka fall back upon fairly regularly, because it's pretty much how their country worked up until maybe the last century or two, as I understand it, and the roots of it remain embedded in their cultural consciousness. It should be noted that Sullivan doesn't actually appear to slot neatly into this part of the social structure. He seems to lack a clan/extended family, based on the fact that he didn't adopt one of them as his heir instead, and that none of them are trying to oppose Iruma's addition to the family. In fact, he seems to lack a last name entirely, which may indicate he lacks a Bloodline Magic. That probably means he reached his position because of his relationship with Delkira. And yet, he's often considered the main candidate for Demon King. Something to consider.
The concept of "meritocratic" really starts to break down in settings with superpowers and nonhuman sentient species, IMO. It's used in a very anthropocentric way. You use it that way yourself, when you talk about some demons being "smarter" and "more talented". But is someone who can duplicate any object they've seen more talented than someone who can steal other people's senses, or less? Trying to compare some powers is like trying to compare apples and toasters. Bloodline Magic creates something more like a socio-economic ecosystem, with all the niches and pressures that entails, than a hierarchical ladder. But then, I find hierarchical ladders rarely match my observations of reality. YMMV.
Also, "good?" I don't recall that term coming up. Nor evil. They tend to describe greed as being "more demon-like" and altruism as "less demon-like". They're extremely amoral (as opposed to immoral), so such concepts don't really seem to spring into their minds. They frame things in very personal, self-centered terms. They do whatever seems fun and interesting. They pursue their interests without shame. Intelligence and talent are tools to be leveraged towards one's chosen ends. As is rank, in the end. If a talented demon feels no need to raise their rank, that's their prerogative. It's not wrong, either. Unusual, perhaps, but not wrong.
Honestly, their social system mostly seems to exist, more or less, to direct those drives and goals impulses in constructive and cooperative directions, rather than destructive ones. Or at least to minimize and direct the violence. It keeps the most powerful and most dangerous demons chained by their desires by giving them whatever they want, so long as they play by the rules. If not, they get squashed by the rest. Mutually assured destruction, in a sense. It's not built on morality nor ethics, but simple pragmatism and self-interest. Possibly even enlightened self-interest, in some cases. You can see that most clearly in Caim's family history, I think. The Demon King of that time took a powerful enemy, and turned them into a vassal, incorporating them into the system.
Which, at root, is probably why people opposing it are so nasty, really. When a society is generally willing to brush off property damage, casual pickpocketing, child labor, torture...honestly, just about anything short of murder (so long as you don't get caught like an idiot), the main people opposing the fundamental structure are going to be murderers. The kind that enjoy it. Their goals run fundamental to the roots of the social system, such as it is. They want to burn things to the ground and dance in the ashes. There's no compromise to be made there.
Overall, for a social structure built by natural sadists, it's a surprisingly reasonable system, all things considered. Not perfect, by any means. But no social system is.
That being said...isn't the whole Trickster Plan all about the system currently not working well? It won't change the fundamental hierarchy, or at least not directly, though I suppose a Demon King could order such a change. There was a passing comment by Sabro about Delkira being a reformer of some sort, so it's not out of the question. Heck, it's possible that the Thirteen Crowns were one of those reforms.
Finally, there's also the possibility that Ranking isn't purely a social structure, but also a magical one. We know Ali has reacted to Iruma's rank rising, allowing him to cast more advanced spells. It may compel some level of obedience, or it might just give someone a boost in their magical energy and open up new possibilities for their magic. Which would produce a system where might makes right, but right also makes might. Amusing.
This is actually a social structure that I see mangaka fall back upon fairly regularly, because it's pretty much how their country worked up until maybe the last century or two, as I understand it, and the roots of it remain embedded in their cultural consciousness. It should be noted that Sullivan doesn't actually appear to slot neatly into this part of the social structure. He seems to lack a clan/extended family, based on the fact that he didn't adopt one of them as his heir instead, and that none of them are trying to oppose Iruma's addition to the family. In fact, he seems to lack a last name entirely, which may indicate he lacks a Bloodline Magic. That probably means he reached his position because of his relationship with Delkira. And yet, he's often considered the main candidate for Demon King. Something to consider.
The concept of "meritocratic" really starts to break down in settings with superpowers and nonhuman sentient species, IMO. It's used in a very anthropocentric way. You use it that way yourself, when you talk about some demons being "smarter" and "more talented". But is someone who can duplicate any object they've seen more talented than someone who can steal other people's senses, or less? Trying to compare some powers is like trying to compare apples and toasters. Bloodline Magic creates something more like a socio-economic ecosystem, with all the niches and pressures that entails, than a hierarchical ladder. But then, I find hierarchical ladders rarely match my observations of reality. YMMV.
Also, "good?" I don't recall that term coming up. Nor evil. They tend to describe greed as being "more demon-like" and altruism as "less demon-like". They're extremely amoral (as opposed to immoral), so such concepts don't really seem to spring into their minds. They frame things in very personal, self-centered terms. They do whatever seems fun and interesting. They pursue their interests without shame. Intelligence and talent are tools to be leveraged towards one's chosen ends. As is rank, in the end. If a talented demon feels no need to raise their rank, that's their prerogative. It's not wrong, either. Unusual, perhaps, but not wrong.
Honestly, their social system mostly seems to exist, more or less, to direct those drives and goals impulses in constructive and cooperative directions, rather than destructive ones. Or at least to minimize and direct the violence. It keeps the most powerful and most dangerous demons chained by their desires by giving them whatever they want, so long as they play by the rules. If not, they get squashed by the rest. Mutually assured destruction, in a sense. It's not built on morality nor ethics, but simple pragmatism and self-interest. Possibly even enlightened self-interest, in some cases. You can see that most clearly in Caim's family history, I think. The Demon King of that time took a powerful enemy, and turned them into a vassal, incorporating them into the system.
Which, at root, is probably why people opposing it are so nasty, really. When a society is generally willing to brush off property damage, casual pickpocketing, child labor, torture...honestly, just about anything short of murder (so long as you don't get caught like an idiot), the main people opposing the fundamental structure are going to be murderers. The kind that enjoy it. Their goals run fundamental to the roots of the social system, such as it is. They want to burn things to the ground and dance in the ashes. There's no compromise to be made there.
Overall, for a social structure built by natural sadists, it's a surprisingly reasonable system, all things considered. Not perfect, by any means. But no social system is.
That being said...isn't the whole Trickster Plan all about the system currently not working well? It won't change the fundamental hierarchy, or at least not directly, though I suppose a Demon King could order such a change. There was a passing comment by Sabro about Delkira being a reformer of some sort, so it's not out of the question. Heck, it's possible that the Thirteen Crowns were one of those reforms.
Finally, there's also the possibility that Ranking isn't purely a social structure, but also a magical one. We know Ali has reacted to Iruma's rank rising, allowing him to cast more advanced spells. It may compel some level of obedience, or it might just give someone a boost in their magical energy and open up new possibilities for their magic. Which would produce a system where might makes right, but right also makes might. Amusing.
...Or maybe I'm massively overthinking a fluffy slice-of-life manga, and both of us should chill. I'm certainly not going to demand Niishi to think this much about the subject, given how much thought and care already goes into the characters.
Last edited:
That's the thing tho, I dont want either of us to do that. I want someone in the story to do it, and not be treated as either an enemy or as being in the wrong.
It is a very fluffy manga at the end of the day, but I think at this point and considering how much care goes into the world building to expect a bit more nuisance
#1xx manga you are complaining about. Get over yourself.
Don't stalk me, loser
I mean...they have? Pretty much everyone agrees that something's wrong about their current situation. Just not the things you think are wrong. I said as much in the spoilered bit. I do hope you read it, because I laid out some misconceptions I think you're operating under when it comes to how their society is structured in the first place, and what they place value on.
By the way you phrase it, you seem to think that someone else in the manga shares your concerns, but has been labeled an enemy or "in the wrong" for that view...but I can't think of a single demon whom that description fits. Definitely not Baal and his merry band of minions. They're entirely for "might makes right". It's the system they prefer. They dislike the current system because, as I said in my critique, it defuses and refocuses the destructive tendencies that demons have. It keeps the knives under the table and blood where it belongs (more or less). Baal would prefer the knives be out and in constant use, and for the floors to be "repainted" red. Not sure how that's at all related to what you're talking about.
No one in the manga world seems to aknowledge the fundamental problem with meritocracy, no! That's what I'm saying! The "bad" ones are objectively bad demons.
Makes me think author just thinks meritocracy is good, since it has not been challenged as a system of thought AT ALL
Similar threads
