Majutsu Gakuin wo Shuseki de Sotsugyoushita Ore ga Boukensha wo Hajimeru no wa sonna ni okashii darouka - Vol. 1 Ch. 3
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We need this bandit arc to end so we can get back to cat girl headpats.
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@Kirin-kun I think the only time they are allowed to administer justice is probably when someone make a request or if they are the target of said criminal.
though the party technically didn't accept an official request, which require the guild to approve of it, to kill those bandits but sooner or later someone will post a request to kill those guys anyway but I do think their decision is correct cause if they do not act now another village or several merchant caravan will end up being targeted until someone decides to finally post a request. plus what ever moral question the MC has a bad upbringing those said bandits receive does not mean it's fine to just kill and rape people.
though the party technically didn't accept an official request, which require the guild to approve of it, to kill those bandits but sooner or later someone will post a request to kill those guys anyway but I do think their decision is correct cause if they do not act now another village or several merchant caravan will end up being targeted until someone decides to finally post a request. plus what ever moral question the MC has a bad upbringing those said bandits receive does not mean it's fine to just kill and rape people.
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@greatninja3 they ought to capture them. Not kill them.
I don't think they should be forgiven because of whatever sob story they have in stock.
Just that punishment should be dealt according to the law of the land, not preemptively and indiscriminately.
I don't think they should be forgiven because of whatever sob story they have in stock.
Just that punishment should be dealt according to the law of the land, not preemptively and indiscriminately.
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@Kirin-kun
"Just that punishment should be dealt according to the law of the land, not preemptively and indiscriminately."
you think like a modern ordinary citizen and not in a good way
even in a country nowadays there are regularly innocent accused and punished for things they did not do
you think it looks like what a middle age investigation and judgment
anyone could have accused another person without proof, or with ridiculous evidence and false testimony
and someone decided the life of the accused according to his principles and envy
but besides that a bandit is not a person from the territory (a bandit causes money to be lost to the lord, a bandit does not pay taxes,
he attacks merchants, so even less taxes and attacks also citizens, so still less taxes),
bandit or enemy army it's the same thing
if a foreign army is on your territory you capture them and make an inquiry?
or you kill them to defend your land?
they are bandits in an imaginary world, in 90% of the cases it's adventurers who are responsible for killing them
the law is bandits (bandits = steals, murders and rapes in groups) are killed with or without request from the authorities
"Just that punishment should be dealt according to the law of the land, not preemptively and indiscriminately."
you think like a modern ordinary citizen and not in a good way
even in a country nowadays there are regularly innocent accused and punished for things they did not do
you think it looks like what a middle age investigation and judgment
anyone could have accused another person without proof, or with ridiculous evidence and false testimony
and someone decided the life of the accused according to his principles and envy
but besides that a bandit is not a person from the territory (a bandit causes money to be lost to the lord, a bandit does not pay taxes,
he attacks merchants, so even less taxes and attacks also citizens, so still less taxes),
bandit or enemy army it's the same thing
if a foreign army is on your territory you capture them and make an inquiry?
or you kill them to defend your land?
they are bandits in an imaginary world, in 90% of the cases it's adventurers who are responsible for killing them
the law is bandits (bandits = steals, murders and rapes in groups) are killed with or without request from the authorities
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@Gauvain Obviously, the author made it a perfect world: people being killed by the MCs deserved death, had no family to support and nobody will ever ask about how they died and why. What a cute world.
Adventurers are handed quests sanctioned by a guild normally. That the MC's party does it "just because" should be wrong, even by this world's standard.
But this too will be glossed over.
Adventurers are handed quests sanctioned by a guild normally. That the MC's party does it "just because" should be wrong, even by this world's standard.
But this too will be glossed over.
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@kirin-kun
I think it's you who live in a "perfect world" "cute world"
"people being killed by the MCs deserved death"
it's your interpretation, with what you've read, but the MC has real information before him, you only have a text and a drawing and your biased mentality
biased because you live in the 21st century in a world without magic and with your laws, moral and custom
"had no family to support and nobody will ever ask about how they died and why"
bandit is not a job, he does not come home at night or once a month to see his family and talk about work
bandits are people who have chosen to be outlaws for ease
they probably have no family, or been abandoned young
Bandits are terrorist (bandits in groups who murders and rapes)
it is only in our world, in some countries, that terrorists are lucky enough to be in prison, or even free
the only point on which I agree with you is the part "Adventurers are handed quests sanctioned by a guild normally" but even here it is only supposition
you can very well be a mercenary (in addition to adventurer) and declare your actions as mercenaries and pay taxes on them
the girl who gives her the job can easily be considered the authority on the spot and replace the mayor to make a request to exterminate bandits, besides she paid with local tax money.
legally it is wobbly, but for the time it is largely enough, besides who will come to check the legality and especially how?
even with an official stamp of the mayor, it would change what
he would send a request to the guild or the lord, they would not have investigated, they would just send people to kill them
I remind you something, they kill a village of 100 people, no need to investigate it is necessarily terrorists
it's not always the case, it's just the norm and a simple way to explain complicated things
a world that gives work on paper more expensive than the reward that is written on it, almost everyone can read
the same organization works in several countries and these workers can go where they want
all these things and others are not developed in a manga and it's not for nothing, it's complicate and it does not interest most people.
But sometimes authors have interesting and logical systems in their WN or LN, but this is rarely described in the manga version
your way of thinking reminds me in "Potion Danomi de Ikinobimasu!"
when the translator and a lot of readers talked about the Geneva convention
as if being a person reincarnated from Japan made you someone who will respect this convention
which does not exist in this other world
which moreover has a development much less advanced than us at the time of the ratification of the "laws" concerned
"laws" that are not even respected by all the countries that signed them
I think it's you who live in a "perfect world" "cute world"
"people being killed by the MCs deserved death"
it's your interpretation, with what you've read, but the MC has real information before him, you only have a text and a drawing and your biased mentality
biased because you live in the 21st century in a world without magic and with your laws, moral and custom
"had no family to support and nobody will ever ask about how they died and why"
bandit is not a job, he does not come home at night or once a month to see his family and talk about work
bandits are people who have chosen to be outlaws for ease
they probably have no family, or been abandoned young
Bandits are terrorist (bandits in groups who murders and rapes)
it is only in our world, in some countries, that terrorists are lucky enough to be in prison, or even free
the only point on which I agree with you is the part "Adventurers are handed quests sanctioned by a guild normally" but even here it is only supposition
you can very well be a mercenary (in addition to adventurer) and declare your actions as mercenaries and pay taxes on them
the girl who gives her the job can easily be considered the authority on the spot and replace the mayor to make a request to exterminate bandits, besides she paid with local tax money.
legally it is wobbly, but for the time it is largely enough, besides who will come to check the legality and especially how?
even with an official stamp of the mayor, it would change what
he would send a request to the guild or the lord, they would not have investigated, they would just send people to kill them
I remind you something, they kill a village of 100 people, no need to investigate it is necessarily terrorists
it's not always the case, it's just the norm and a simple way to explain complicated things
a world that gives work on paper more expensive than the reward that is written on it, almost everyone can read
the same organization works in several countries and these workers can go where they want
all these things and others are not developed in a manga and it's not for nothing, it's complicate and it does not interest most people.
But sometimes authors have interesting and logical systems in their WN or LN, but this is rarely described in the manga version
your way of thinking reminds me in "Potion Danomi de Ikinobimasu!"
when the translator and a lot of readers talked about the Geneva convention
as if being a person reincarnated from Japan made you someone who will respect this convention
which does not exist in this other world
which moreover has a development much less advanced than us at the time of the ratification of the "laws" concerned
"laws" that are not even respected by all the countries that signed them
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@Gauvain long story short, this world is simplistic. It just means that the author just doesn't want to deal with inconsistencies that arise from his lack of world building.
There are "Court Magicians", so there must be authorities and a King or Emperor. If Wizards are allowed to run rampant and kill whatever people they feel like, because some random ghost paid them for it, I don't think the Kingdom will last long. But obviously, the author of the LN/WN didn't think that far.
I don't know what you are trying to prove? That the MC is justified in his endeavor of killing these people? Sure, within what we know about the world for now, I guess he somewhat is, though the idea of an adventurers guild runs contrary to this.
This "bandits arc" will probably be forgotten in a couple chapters and nothing more will come of it.
What I'm trying to say is that this world is oversimplified and the author didn't put enough thought in his World Building. There's thus no use comparing it to "our world".
There are "Court Magicians", so there must be authorities and a King or Emperor. If Wizards are allowed to run rampant and kill whatever people they feel like, because some random ghost paid them for it, I don't think the Kingdom will last long. But obviously, the author of the LN/WN didn't think that far.
I don't know what you are trying to prove? That the MC is justified in his endeavor of killing these people? Sure, within what we know about the world for now, I guess he somewhat is, though the idea of an adventurers guild runs contrary to this.
This "bandits arc" will probably be forgotten in a couple chapters and nothing more will come of it.
What I'm trying to say is that this world is oversimplified and the author didn't put enough thought in his World Building. There's thus no use comparing it to "our world".
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@Kirin-kun
"long story short, this world is simplistic. It just means that the author just doesn't want to deal with inconsistencies that arise from his lack of world building."
you read a lot here? no because story sufficiently realistic for you there must not be many here.
and the worst is that you think it's too simple based on modern custom
even nowadays everything is not logical, and at the time it was even less
the witch hunt, does that tell you something?
Japan's Burakumin ??
"There's thus no use comparing it to "our world"."
What are you basing on when you write? our experince in our world
you want to transfer a personal utopia, based on your experiences, religious practice, world understanding, moral and custom
if everyone does as you do, in your opinion, how much different truth?
and on all our history ?
by pity do not speak of "inconsistencies" based on an imperfect world and even less on your personal beliefs, which are also based on this imperfect world
what you find logical would seem illogical for someone else.
and above all not all is based on logic
especially not at a time when religion had a lot of power (more than kings).
"long story short, this world is simplistic. It just means that the author just doesn't want to deal with inconsistencies that arise from his lack of world building."
you read a lot here? no because story sufficiently realistic for you there must not be many here.
and the worst is that you think it's too simple based on modern custom
even nowadays everything is not logical, and at the time it was even less
the witch hunt, does that tell you something?
Japan's Burakumin ??
"There's thus no use comparing it to "our world"."
What are you basing on when you write? our experince in our world
you want to transfer a personal utopia, based on your experiences, religious practice, world understanding, moral and custom
if everyone does as you do, in your opinion, how much different truth?
and on all our history ?
by pity do not speak of "inconsistencies" based on an imperfect world and even less on your personal beliefs, which are also based on this imperfect world
what you find logical would seem illogical for someone else.
and above all not all is based on logic
especially not at a time when religion had a lot of power (more than kings).
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@Kirin-kun well to be fair during the middle ages or even before that those bandits would be killed on the spot anyway they’d even tie them up to a pole depending on the culture
And what the other commenter said pretty low chance that they have family Considering they won’t even be allowed to enter any towns considering they have no documents to show to the authorities in isekai story they tend brush of this part by ether having magic to see people’s record or they just guid them to a guild to give them a record and also check if they have criminal records. Again in the middle ages and below they’ll kick you out imprison you or if they let you enter barley anyone will do business with you, usually in small towns where everyone knows each other, so you’d just be sleeping on the streets at that point and if someone killed you nobody will care that much you are just a nobody and probably a criminal anyway.
And moral and ethics are just social construct in some places it’s not moral to be gay and others it is in current 2019 you might not think what the MC is doing is immoral but 1500 years ago you’d go and agree to what the MC did and think his action is moral.
That’s as what @Gauvain you shouldn’t think with modern morality or logic here cause even 50 years ago our own morals was different i mean slavery was still a mainstream thing like a century ago.
And what the other commenter said pretty low chance that they have family Considering they won’t even be allowed to enter any towns considering they have no documents to show to the authorities in isekai story they tend brush of this part by ether having magic to see people’s record or they just guid them to a guild to give them a record and also check if they have criminal records. Again in the middle ages and below they’ll kick you out imprison you or if they let you enter barley anyone will do business with you, usually in small towns where everyone knows each other, so you’d just be sleeping on the streets at that point and if someone killed you nobody will care that much you are just a nobody and probably a criminal anyway.
And moral and ethics are just social construct in some places it’s not moral to be gay and others it is in current 2019 you might not think what the MC is doing is immoral but 1500 years ago you’d go and agree to what the MC did and think his action is moral.
That’s as what @Gauvain you shouldn’t think with modern morality or logic here cause even 50 years ago our own morals was different i mean slavery was still a mainstream thing like a century ago.
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I don't get what you people are arguing about... but killing a human being, no matter what age or era or culture, is a heavy toll on the conscience. (Hell, even killing humanoid monster should make you think twice.)
The usual trope is you get numb to it after sometime, but remember that they are just rank F. If even the beginners are this used to homicide, how fucked up is this world?
The usual trope is you get numb to it after sometime, but remember that they are just rank F. If even the beginners are this used to homicide, how fucked up is this world?
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@Yanagi not really I mean we still have cannibal tribes in the current era pretty sure there was more before head hunters though no longer exist today but one of the last head hunter tribes was still killing humans for trophies like 30 years ago(until they got introduce to Christianity) and when interviewed they say they never regret what they did. Spartans had a tradition of killing of their slaves in a festival and on occasions their baby and even farmers can kill people when they get drafted as long as their commanders know how to give them moral. And African tribes has been killing each other until colonialism appeared. Well most countries with tribal communities has been killing people from outside tribes for generations until colonisers appeared not just Africa.
As I mentioned it’s a cultural thing, each cultures have different sets of morals, we just value life a lot more now as compared to before especially the life of outsiders. Sometimes a bit too much that’s why we have vegans who would even value life that isn’t humans.
As I mentioned it’s a cultural thing, each cultures have different sets of morals, we just value life a lot more now as compared to before especially the life of outsiders. Sometimes a bit too much that’s why we have vegans who would even value life that isn’t humans.
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@greatninja3
Are kids from head hunter tribes also kill without batting an eye? Have they talked about their first kill? Do the fighters in the tribes kill outsiders, or every one of them do? Does the farmer urged on by his lord kill without hesitation or remorse?
And look, even if all of those are true, my point still stand: if even kids are this used to homicide, you just know it's a fucked up world.
Are kids from head hunter tribes also kill without batting an eye? Have they talked about their first kill? Do the fighters in the tribes kill outsiders, or every one of them do? Does the farmer urged on by his lord kill without hesitation or remorse?
And look, even if all of those are true, my point still stand: if even kids are this used to homicide, you just know it's a fucked up world.
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@greatninja3
I spend my time criticizing @Kirin-kun precisely because he thinks that our society is perfect and that we are better now than this story.
That's why I chose examples of our current society that seem crazy.
By doing this I prove to him that he is wrong with his own logic
@Kirin-kun
"I still don't understand what you're trying to defend."
I show you that what you defend can not exist, as long as there is not a "unique thought" shared by all people on earth
something that can only happen if the world is perfectly united
even a society like George Orwell's "1984" story, it would be a feat to reach this result
"Cynicism and nihilism won't get you anywhere. It's just an excuse to look at the world and its unfairness, say "everyone else is rotten", and not do anything. Or think violence is the solution to everything."
do not transform my writings, I never said that it was good, I say that it is not realistic for you to believe in a perfect world in a period of the Middle Ages, when we ourselves are far from perfect
so you can keep your "insults" for yourself
I spend my time criticizing @Kirin-kun precisely because he thinks that our society is perfect and that we are better now than this story.
That's why I chose examples of our current society that seem crazy.
By doing this I prove to him that he is wrong with his own logic
@Kirin-kun
"I still don't understand what you're trying to defend."
I show you that what you defend can not exist, as long as there is not a "unique thought" shared by all people on earth
something that can only happen if the world is perfectly united
even a society like George Orwell's "1984" story, it would be a feat to reach this result
"Cynicism and nihilism won't get you anywhere. It's just an excuse to look at the world and its unfairness, say "everyone else is rotten", and not do anything. Or think violence is the solution to everything."
do not transform my writings, I never said that it was good, I say that it is not realistic for you to believe in a perfect world in a period of the Middle Ages, when we ourselves are far from perfect
so you can keep your "insults" for yourself
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@Gauvain I don't see where I insulted you but whatever.
And you're also twisting what I write anyway.
- I never wrote that we are perfect.
- I'm convinced that the contemporary systems, at least in the Western world, evolved for the better, because it tries to minimize unfairness. It still exists and it's a fact of life, but it doesn't mean we should just accept it. We are far from perfect but we should strive to better our societies instead of lamenting about perceived "unfairness".
- The world in this manga, like a lot of fantasy manga, is loosely based on European late middle-age, so I can accept some leeway and not think it should mirror exactly the middle-age society, but the faults here are too glaring to ignore.
The party here turned from Adventurers (a perfectly respectable occupation in this setting) into Mercenaries, or even Hired thugs, by private people to kill other people. That these other people are scummy bandits is irrelevant. The morality and legality of such behavior should be dubious, *even in the context of this fantasy world*, because even such a world needs laws and justice to be functional.
But you seem to think that in this world, it's allowed and perfectly normal to kill a bunch of people because they are bandits. Actually, I also think that's what the author tries to convey: our "heroes" are totally righteous and justified into killing these people and if they ever report it to some authorities, they will be commended for it.
But this is a flawed reasoning, because Mercenaries are always a danger to the powers in place. They are no better than bandits in their eyes, because, like the bandits, their loyalty only goes to their self interest, or to the highest buyer. The authorities there should be wary of a party like them, because they shouldn't necessarily believe their altruism to help a ghost. What if, instead of bandits, it was a company of the regular army that went and raped some girls (happens all the time, even in our world). Then, suddenly, killing the perpetrators becomes a lot more problematic. Does this mean they will ignore the ghost's plea? The scenario here "bandits bad, let's kill them" is overly simplistic and too perfect.
But this problem will probably be ignored, by the author and by you. On my side, I can't help but wince at the incoherence of such a plot point.
And that will end this conversation, because I'm getting tired of arguing about a manga/LN whose plot can probably fit on a post-it.
And you're also twisting what I write anyway.
- I never wrote that we are perfect.
- I'm convinced that the contemporary systems, at least in the Western world, evolved for the better, because it tries to minimize unfairness. It still exists and it's a fact of life, but it doesn't mean we should just accept it. We are far from perfect but we should strive to better our societies instead of lamenting about perceived "unfairness".
- The world in this manga, like a lot of fantasy manga, is loosely based on European late middle-age, so I can accept some leeway and not think it should mirror exactly the middle-age society, but the faults here are too glaring to ignore.
The party here turned from Adventurers (a perfectly respectable occupation in this setting) into Mercenaries, or even Hired thugs, by private people to kill other people. That these other people are scummy bandits is irrelevant. The morality and legality of such behavior should be dubious, *even in the context of this fantasy world*, because even such a world needs laws and justice to be functional.
But you seem to think that in this world, it's allowed and perfectly normal to kill a bunch of people because they are bandits. Actually, I also think that's what the author tries to convey: our "heroes" are totally righteous and justified into killing these people and if they ever report it to some authorities, they will be commended for it.
But this is a flawed reasoning, because Mercenaries are always a danger to the powers in place. They are no better than bandits in their eyes, because, like the bandits, their loyalty only goes to their self interest, or to the highest buyer. The authorities there should be wary of a party like them, because they shouldn't necessarily believe their altruism to help a ghost. What if, instead of bandits, it was a company of the regular army that went and raped some girls (happens all the time, even in our world). Then, suddenly, killing the perpetrators becomes a lot more problematic. Does this mean they will ignore the ghost's plea? The scenario here "bandits bad, let's kill them" is overly simplistic and too perfect.
But this problem will probably be ignored, by the author and by you. On my side, I can't help but wince at the incoherence of such a plot point.
And that will end this conversation, because I'm getting tired of arguing about a manga/LN whose plot can probably fit on a post-it.
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