Maken no Daydreamer - Vol. 7 Ch. 40

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@Amyliazora I'm not here to judge, this is a genuine question. How much do you know about slavery?

Slavery may seem unjustifiable nowadays, but back in a time where families used to all be trained to work for one thing only.
Where do you think they would get the labor force for construction, mining and odd jobs?
Slaves, they could only do it with slaves, why?
Because everyone else had been trained though generations to fulfill a specific role, you had families of farmers, artisans, merchants. Learning new trades was extremely hard since school existed in a primitive form and Nobles where the ones that had access to it in some ways.
Even Nobles had jobs that only they could do, so it was really impossible for them to fulfill these roles.

Also trading worked on products more than on coins. Only Nobles and merchants usually dealt with money, artisans and farmers used their own produce, tools, pottery, and art as money, they only had coins to be used on products that can't be obtained locally, from merchants. So they absolutely HAD to follow the same profession otherwise they'd have literally nothing to trade for food and other necessities.
So there was literally no one who would learn how to build or do the heavy duty job. Hence why slaves were the only form of getting that kind of work force.

Without them society would colapse and since many of them were criminals, or people captured from wars against other coutries, no one respected them. It could get to a point where slaves were safer having an owner, as it would protect them from suffering violence from others around them, specially if they came from rival countries.

Freeing slaves would require involvement in politics and reestructuring of society as a whole, so that a kind of reward would need to be paid so that people could learn the trade of working on mines and building, jobs that no one wanted to learn. It's not just a matter of being pissed at slavery and freeing them by force.
people usually remember about how black people were treated when slavery was common in recent decades. But even then, there were owners, and "owners", ones who would mistreat and commit violence just for the heck of it, and others who would be respectful and merely treat them as workers. This doesn't justify the ressurgence of slavers, more importantly, this has always been how slaves were treated, don't think that only black people were mistreated, during the idiocy that were the modern times. Slaves in general were mistreated on most cases.

What is important to know, is that no matter how you think about them, no one should judge a character that decides not to meddle. Freeing slaves irresponsibly is a lot worse than letting slavery happen. You could be dooming the freed slaves to violence and even death just to stroke your ego or sense of morality. If you can't change the system, don't meddle with it.
If you dislike it enough to want it gone, elaborate on alternatives to the whole system. The main characters in these stories aren't politicians, social scientists, historians, they are just brats with some historical knowledge from school, they don't have the know how and neither the political standing to make any suggestions whatsoever.
Needless to remind you that in a world of kingdoms, peasants are literally nobody compared to nobles and royals, they didn't have the "right" to even make suggestions to people of a higher caste, much less band toghether to make demands. So there's that.
 
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At this point, it's much more surprising when an isekai doesn't involve slavery. It's become just another tired trope that authors employ without a sliver of real analysis on display. (Not that this series seems to have been especially well thought out in the first place.)
 
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It's bad enough some japanese authors keep using slavery with no afterthough, but there's also people in the comments who read those manga and think slavery is natural or was necessary... smh.

Societies of the past relied on slavery because it was easier, it was necessary for those modes of production, but a society that depends of slaves is what's unecessary. At some point the exploitation of people by other people becames incentivized, but it is a choice - the more powerful ones choose to exploit, becoming even more powerful.

To the guy talking about training and know-how: 1. that's what every country in latin america that fought to end slavery did, also people can learn fast when in need. 2. They are not salting the earth, people who know other things are still alive, people can work together, can teach each other, schools, books, manuals, and things that can be reverse engeneered still exists. 3. Some things are not that complicated, things like building houses were invented tens of thousands of years before slavery, rich ex-slave owner families can figure it out. 5. Other countries still exist, they can trade goods and knowledge that the new mode of production needs. There are many more and better justifications of why slavery is unecessary than the reasons slave owners were able to conjure to justify their slave owning. And that's despite a lot of famous european philosopers being sympathizers of colonization practices.

It was not the only way for those societies to develop. And the exploitation of other humans is not the only way for society to continue foward new heights.
 
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What's up with people hating slavery portrayal suddenly? It's not like it's not realistic considering the level of the society in the manga where they are present. And this series' isn't that bad either and this is just set up to show Kouki 2.0's naivety and narrow mindness and more reason for him to antagonize the MC later on.
 
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Thanks for the chapter. I'd be satisfied as long as you don't drop this series. Just keep working in your own pace.
 
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Condoning slavery with such an argument is something REAL people do today about REAL slavery (and not just in the US). Using these very same arguments, like "They deserve it", "they are criminals anyway", "they are treated better than the poor or homeless." all of these things shouldn't be taken lightly. The "buying and selling of humans" is wrong and should not happen.

That being said, you can have slavery in manga or in other stories if it is handled well, THIS IS NOT. "The Hero" is tacitly condoning the practice and his companions are telling him it's ok under certain circumstances. "The Bad Guy" is seen as nieve and wrong for opposing it outright and trying to free them. I find this very distasteful and I am dropping this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/03/...ehind-slavery-apologists-like-kanye-west.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Japan
 
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Oh brother! You just gotta love the ignorance of some people who when hearing the word slavery, automatically think only of the white slavers and blacks slaves in the US... Really shows you people have absolutely ZERO knowledge of history, but considering the education level of the US I am really not surprised... If you people had some minimal knowledge of world history you'd know that the so-called US slavery business was nothing, but the tip of the iceberg during history and those black slaves were actually treated the most fairly among all slaves (since they were bought as a labour force, not for pleasure), in contrast to the white slaves that were sold to the MIddle-East and Asia in the same time period, who were usually sadistically brutalised and raped because of their Christian religion, so yeah if you want to criticise slavery study up on history, cuz black enslavement in the US was by far not the worst kind of slavery in human history!
Oh and btw slavery is practised even in our modern "civilised" days and guess where? You got it, Africa! Blacks trade other blacks freely in Africa just because they are from a different tribe, doesn't that sicken you? If you really want to be a SJW then go to Africa and fight against the modern day slavers there, instead of criticising a manga...
 
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I really appreciated making the cute slave girl an actual thief and the suspicious man a nice doctor. Of course I fully expect the girl to reappear later, somehow becoming friend with the protagonist and be freed.
 
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@BloodySorcerer

Slavery may seem unjustifiable nowadays, but back in a time where families used to all be trained to work for one thing only.

No, they were no such universal rule. Typically an eldest son would inherit the father's business. However, it's entirely possible the business couldn't give livelihood to more people than one family. The rest would need to find their fortunes elsewhere.

Where do you think they would get the labor force for construction, mining and odd jobs?
Slaves, they could only do it with slaves, why?

Sure, it was convenient with slaves, but at the end of the day, in the distant past most people lived from hand to mouth. You could pay pittance and still find workers. The situation was made even more straightforward in the places where being a vagrant (in a town) was a crime. You needed to have a job or be under someone's protection, or you would get into trouble with the law.

Because everyone else had been trained though generations to fulfill a specific role, you had families of farmers, artisans, merchants. Learning new trades was extremely hard since school existed in a primitive form and Nobles where the ones that had access to it in some ways.

Eh. Only priests, bigger merchants, high officials, bankers, architects, philosophers, other aristocracy and such people had jobs that required formal schooling. The vast majority learned their craft through apprenticeship. In fact when the guild system developed (and overdeveloped), you couldn't even practice many professions without going through that. And the guilds decided when some town had enough masters of some craft. How to become an apprentice wouldn't be something to sort out in a single sentence.

Also trading worked on products more than on coins. Only Nobles and merchants usually dealt with money, artisans and farmers used their own produce, tools, pottery, and art as money, they only had coins to be used on products that can't be obtained locally, from merchants. So they absolutely HAD to follow the same profession otherwise they'd have literally nothing to trade for food and other necessities.

People dealt with coins as much as they could. Merchants preferred them, and when people from the countryside came to towns to sell their produce, they preferred them, although if they also needed to buy something and got a better deal by bartering, sure, why not. Still, like you said, depending on the country/province, it could have been more undeveloped. For example, it wasn't uncommon for farmers to pay their taxes in the form of whatever they were growing, be it crops, meat, butter, etc. One practical problem was the amount of money in circulation. Since it wasn't fiat money, the government needed silver (and gold) to create the money. There might not have always been enough of it.

So there was literally no one who would learn how to build or do the heavy duty job. Hence why slaves were the only form of getting that kind of work force.

I more or less addressed this before already. In the distant past when machines didn't exist, all work was done by humans. Humans also had very little worth. There were workers, unless the population was lacking. Much work was also done through voluntary (like building churches) or involuntary (drafted, work as payment, etc) free contribution. You don't also need to go to school to know how to carry things following orders or do other simple things.

Without them society would colapse and since many of them were criminals, or people captured from wars against other coutries, no one respected them. It could get to a point where slaves were safer having an owner, as it would protect them from suffering violence from others around them, specially if they came from rival countries.

A slave always has an owner. Unless the owner has been killed, but then officials would figure out who inherits the slaves (unless a testament set them free). If nobody was around, I imagine the crown claimed them. If someone else's slave was killed for no good reason, the killer had to compensate the slave's worth to the owner, as slaves were property. Since few people actually were swimming in money in the distant past, you really didn't do things that made you lose money unnecessarily. Doing something and not being able to pay would be even worse.

Needless to remind you that in a world of kingdoms, peasants are literally nobody compared to nobles and royals, they didn't have the "right" to even make suggestions to people of a higher caste, much less band toghether to make demands. So there's that.

In a fantasy setting, if you get powerful enough, you surely can suggest whatever you want. In RL and fiction, power, in the end, is what matters above everything else.
 
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@JavelinJoe
If their crime isn't much, lets say they drank to much and have a large bartab and cant pay, there would be an arrangement with the owner, the client, and possibly the guard. you would work off the debt or make arrangements to pay later
If your crime was a bit more severe but non violent, you would likely be in a debtors prison where your hard labor is more valuable than retribution.

Many smaller things wouldn't even be considered a 'crime' and more just bs the fuzz needs to break up, and if you were a particular pain in the ass, maybe some time in a temp cell.

your example of jaywalking or graffiti, both of these in a time without abundance are non crimes, unless you piss someone high up off, at which point, yea, you getting killed for it.
cheap labor is largely what you would do with non violent crimes, or 'crimes' where you cant pass an idea.

However, consider that they don't have the means to pay for the upkeep of cheap labor, 1 bad harvest and not a good one the following year. This would take the act of stealing food from petty crime to potentially life threatening.

On the war, that does require war, or at the very least a real threat.

The plus side, now I don't know how this world works with slavery yet, if its enforced by magic or what not. If its not, then you are more or less honor system and there are issues with keeping slaves in line, if its magicly enforced, you can potentially have a a serial babykiller man the maternity ward.
If there is a contract, such as 'if you buy this female slave who is a debt slave, you cant rape the hell out of her till she is broken' which again, is magicly enforced, you could fairly safely have anyone work for anyone for cheap labor and effectively work off debt.

Not to mention that slavery takes the enforcement of punishment out of state hands and into private hands, assuming slaves cost some money, usually well off hands. you won't have a free life, but you will have a life, like in the story, selling the kid to slavery for money... if that wasn't allowed, kid or family probably would be dead

@twinklecake well lets see, it benefits them by shifting prisoners to private hands, where they can work off their debt in ways that is better then hard labor or sitting in the corner and thinking of what they did.
in the case of the family selling themselves into slavery, it ensures that people stay alive in a time where social programs aren't a safety net. It also ensures nearly all non violent crime can be dealt with though labor rather death for something like stealing food in a famine.
even if there were no buyers in the country for a slave, it's possible that they could change location, for the most part, the best, brightest, and overall contributors aren't going into slavery, it's the unskilled manual labor types, or petty criminals up through murders depending on how its enforced.
 
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How shtty of a parent to sell their child into slavery. Their whole life ruined thanks to greed, more so girls, but boys could be forced to fight for their life as slaves. Heck, I seen an italian prison for really bad guys and they treat it as an enclosed semi self sustaining appartment block. With lots more freedom the prisoners are not violent, they gain skills to get an actual job when they get out. Their cells are like mini apartments with a bedroom, bathroom and kitchen. Those who get out of that jail have less than 15% chance to re-offend while regular jails are over 60 or 70% last I heard. Don't know how well it would work with a lot of dumb and already aggressive criminals, but the idea works for them, but that is probably due to them not having loads of different cultures, ways of life and other shit to accomodate unlike USA, Canada and other multicultural places. We already have problems of races basically making gangs to rival other racial prison gangs.
 

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