Maou-sama no Machizukuri! ~Saikyou no Dungeon wa Kindai Toshi~ - Vol. 1 Ch. 6 - Beyond Despair
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Folks, this is a clear cut example of Outside-Context Problem. Plain and simple.
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@Hollow7F
I agree that she was haughty, but she really had no reason to believe her opponent would be strong. As a demon lord of a primary element (wind) she is regarded as especially strong, and her opponent showed up with two lolis (which look like much weaker ranked species than they actually are) and skeletons, which are the weakest of the weak. Even with good bows or swords, which is what this world is familiar with, they'd be of very little use. The power multiplicator that is guns, which enables even the weakest person to kill a whole bunch of physically way stronger opponents is unheard of, so she had no reason to suspect such a thing.
And it's not like she can do much recon work when the instant someone enters the corridor the golems start firing.
I agree that she was haughty, but she really had no reason to believe her opponent would be strong. As a demon lord of a primary element (wind) she is regarded as especially strong, and her opponent showed up with two lolis (which look like much weaker ranked species than they actually are) and skeletons, which are the weakest of the weak. Even with good bows or swords, which is what this world is familiar with, they'd be of very little use. The power multiplicator that is guns, which enables even the weakest person to kill a whole bunch of physically way stronger opponents is unheard of, so she had no reason to suspect such a thing.
And it's not like she can do much recon work when the instant someone enters the corridor the golems start firing.
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fuuuuuuuuuu*k add the mind break tag cuz she is outttt of it man, its like dayum the horse face killed me tho like what the fudge man lmao
@Narf
> Mentor tells her that she might lose.
"but she really had no reason to believe that her opponent would be strong".
Also reread chapter 4...... MC's own mentor was the one that recommended him to bring them to see who actually knew their stuff or not. She failed that test since she couldn't read his "childrens" power and judged him only on his skeletons.....
And she was a shit tactician either way you look at it.
Did you not see her SHOCKED face when that rat's wind-shield didn't work?
This means that her previous troops either lacked proper protection, or she let them die like flies without utilizing their abilites since she now learned it the hard way and when it was way too late.
As you might have guessed, the decisive moment for a battle often takes place in the preperation.
He prepared guns, she "rushed B" like a moron.
Maybe there wasn't anything she could have done against guns, sure, but she failed on multiple levels.
Underestimating him twice despite not even being able to at least do the basic as in giving your troops a chans to protect themselves...
> Mentor tells her that she might lose.
"but she really had no reason to believe that her opponent would be strong".
Also reread chapter 4...... MC's own mentor was the one that recommended him to bring them to see who actually knew their stuff or not. She failed that test since she couldn't read his "childrens" power and judged him only on his skeletons.....
And she was a shit tactician either way you look at it.
Did you not see her SHOCKED face when that rat's wind-shield didn't work?
This means that her previous troops either lacked proper protection, or she let them die like flies without utilizing their abilites since she now learned it the hard way and when it was way too late.
As you might have guessed, the decisive moment for a battle often takes place in the preperation.
He prepared guns, she "rushed B" like a moron.
Maybe there wasn't anything she could have done against guns, sure, but she failed on multiple levels.
Underestimating him twice despite not even being able to at least do the basic as in giving your troops a chans to protect themselves...
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lol. just like WW1: you go over a trench, the next one's waiting for you with more MGs
@gaigous
Comment one of yours:
Wtf are you on about? They are both from the "new generation"...
Comment two (and three):
Earned? Earned how? Once again, she as well was from the "new generation"...
And she did nothing right. Sure, her best might not have made her won over guns. But she failed on so many levels that they should almost be a moot point.
She underestimated him twice like a complete novice.
First she failed to see the true strenght of his "children", and she failed to listen to her mentor.
And she didn't even check if her windmagic was effective until her complete troop were annhilated.
Look at her SHOCKED face when that rat's wind-shield didn't work. This means that either her regular troop was complete shit since they didn't posses any means to protect themselves, and thus have NO right to be smug at all. [Earned? lmao]
Or she failed to utilize their full potential and let them rush in and die for nothing since she now learned something important FAR too late. Which also give her no right to be smug.
Comment one of yours:
Wtf are you on about? They are both from the "new generation"...
Comment two (and three):
Earned? Earned how? Once again, she as well was from the "new generation"...
And she did nothing right. Sure, her best might not have made her won over guns. But she failed on so many levels that they should almost be a moot point.
She underestimated him twice like a complete novice.
First she failed to see the true strenght of his "children", and she failed to listen to her mentor.
And she didn't even check if her windmagic was effective until her complete troop were annhilated.
Look at her SHOCKED face when that rat's wind-shield didn't work. This means that either her regular troop was complete shit since they didn't posses any means to protect themselves, and thus have NO right to be smug at all. [Earned? lmao]
Or she failed to utilize their full potential and let them rush in and die for nothing since she now learned something important FAR too late. Which also give her no right to be smug.
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@Southpaw She made damn good use of her strengths, didn't charge in like a bull as the MC thought she would- ....okay, you know what, I think I know where the difference of opinion is coming from, you guys view the deductive reasoning and actions taken as her underestimating him, and we view them as the natural conclusion given what little information she has available.
Do you even know how many variables his creation power creates(lol)? She should be called a tactical genius for adapting so swiftly to his use of guns despite the pressure of her servants dying around her, she's the most human out of all the characters in this manga so far.
How many times do we have to say it, she doesn't know dick about guns, bullets, or the science behind them, from her perspective the wind barrier was her best bet, and her servants were willing to sacrifice themselves for her, she had a flashback, teared up, you know the typical emotions people experience when they're forced to make hard decisions.
The mentor alluded to the fact that there was a good chance she'd lose, so what do you want her to do, she can't realistically call off the duel, it would be social suicide, do you want her to give up her first challenge as a dungeon? It's not even a real dungeon duel, that would be retarded if anything she should do it anyway, the mentor said it would be a good experience.
If you can't see where we are coming from, after all this, then we'll have to agree to disagree here.
Do you even know how many variables his creation power creates(lol)? She should be called a tactical genius for adapting so swiftly to his use of guns despite the pressure of her servants dying around her, she's the most human out of all the characters in this manga so far.
How many times do we have to say it, she doesn't know dick about guns, bullets, or the science behind them, from her perspective the wind barrier was her best bet, and her servants were willing to sacrifice themselves for her, she had a flashback, teared up, you know the typical emotions people experience when they're forced to make hard decisions.
The mentor alluded to the fact that there was a good chance she'd lose, so what do you want her to do, she can't realistically call off the duel, it would be social suicide, do you want her to give up her first challenge as a dungeon? It's not even a real dungeon duel, that would be retarded if anything she should do it anyway, the mentor said it would be a good experience.
If you can't see where we are coming from, after all this, then we'll have to agree to disagree here.
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Lol, so much debate on how bad of a tactician she is. I feel sorry for her. This must be what the other demon Lords are doing right now ?
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So,is Stolas going to swear revenge on the MC...but fall in love with him instead,right?
@gaigous
How can you be this dense.
Him having guns or not doesn't change the fact she failed hard.
I could make a very long list. But will refrain no to... Especially since you haven't even adressed any of my previous points!
Not rushed in like a bull....? Dude, she sent half her troops without sending a clone scout or anything in first to check things out... They got completly annihlated and she learnt nothing from it. How can you claim that she is a "tactical genius" when she fails to even to do some of the most basic of tactics?! Gather intel... Oh wait, what is this "we view them as the natural conclusion given what little information she has available". SHE HAS NO INTEL AND SHE STILL SENT HALF HER TROOP BECAUSE SHE UNDERESTIMATED HIM!
How can you not understand that THIS IS a shitty tactical move?!
Her mentor warned her, she still couldn't see past her HUBRIS (this is a real word, a real concept, and a real fallacy and downfall), and lost HALF HER TROOPS WHILE GAINING NOTHING!
And she should have already here guessed that the wind-shield was ineffective, and not get completly suprised when her rat friend died like nothing. That they had died so easily should already there be a red flagg.
Unless one could claim that her troops didn't posses the ability to create wind-shields.
But that makes it even more stupid because how did she expect to do generate anything with her troops when they can't even defend themselves?
Forget guns, they have no armour, no wind- or regular sheilds.. How could this shit unit even withstand arrows? Adress please!
She got completly suprised when the wind-shield didn't have any effect and killed her rat friend. Meaning that the wind-shield magic hadn't been used up until that point!
So choose, and adress this one!
Did she fail to properly equip her troops?
Or did she not utilize their full potential in order to gather intel about the "iron pipes" abilites?
Either way, this is a major blunder. Guns or no guns!
How can you be this dense.
Him having guns or not doesn't change the fact she failed hard.
I could make a very long list. But will refrain no to... Especially since you haven't even adressed any of my previous points!
Not rushed in like a bull....? Dude, she sent half her troops without sending a clone scout or anything in first to check things out... They got completly annihlated and she learnt nothing from it. How can you claim that she is a "tactical genius" when she fails to even to do some of the most basic of tactics?! Gather intel... Oh wait, what is this "we view them as the natural conclusion given what little information she has available". SHE HAS NO INTEL AND SHE STILL SENT HALF HER TROOP BECAUSE SHE UNDERESTIMATED HIM!
How can you not understand that THIS IS a shitty tactical move?!
Her mentor warned her, she still couldn't see past her HUBRIS (this is a real word, a real concept, and a real fallacy and downfall), and lost HALF HER TROOPS WHILE GAINING NOTHING!
And she should have already here guessed that the wind-shield was ineffective, and not get completly suprised when her rat friend died like nothing. That they had died so easily should already there be a red flagg.
Unless one could claim that her troops didn't posses the ability to create wind-shields.
But that makes it even more stupid because how did she expect to do generate anything with her troops when they can't even defend themselves?
Forget guns, they have no armour, no wind- or regular sheilds.. How could this shit unit even withstand arrows? Adress please!
She got completly suprised when the wind-shield didn't have any effect and killed her rat friend. Meaning that the wind-shield magic hadn't been used up until that point!
So choose, and adress this one!
Did she fail to properly equip her troops?
Or did she not utilize their full potential in order to gather intel about the "iron pipes" abilites?
Either way, this is a major blunder. Guns or no guns!
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Is that a dragon? well if i'm not mistaken, according to GATE manga, 50cal won't do anything decent so I hope he got something powerful than that. And I just hope not as powerful as plot armor.
@southpaw (this is just my interpretation of whats going on) have you heard about russians no retreat order? where if their own men tried to fall back then the people behind would kill them this tactic was done without knowing the enemies strength and cost them tens of thousands if not millions of soldiers, but the russians eventually won. this was one of the worst orders ever issued and it makes me wonder who the monster truly was, but they still won. why do i bring this up? because stolas at first had a similar tactic but not enouh clones for it to succeed. then she altered the plan with the information she gathered and ,even if it hurt her, decided to use the real alongside the clones as a way to take the heat off them. but after that plan failed when the tunnel collapsed killing the clones and cutting off their escape she was given no other option but to push forward. her "children" died as a result but she made it through, only to be presented with the exact same setup. so yeah it was a bit soul crushing. (wow this is the longest comment ive ever writen!)
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