Meguro-san wa Hajimete ja Nai - Vol. 10 Ch. 68 - Able to be joyful

[kuma]

And you're just bringing in completely irrelevant things.

I am saying that mother's monologued about only looks mattering plus her talk about her husband were weird.

Then you come in and say they switched to talking about Meguro and what Koga likes about her. My response is so what? Yes, you are correct that they returned to the initial talk about what he likes about her. So what? That doesn't erase the mother's speech. It didn't make her statements suddenly make sense.

You say you don't know why I took it different ways? I'm taking it the way that she literally said. Out loud. To Koga. Hi, I'm Meguro's mom. I think that looks are the only thing that matter. Oh, by the way, here's a little story about my husband's personality. But he's handsome.

That is fundamentally what she said. If you don't see that as being weird, then I give up.

she definitely prioritize looks, but her action show she care mores than she say. i felt it more like she want to enjoy her self and living beautifully. she make sure she honest and didn't lie to her husband show that she care about him to some degree. she definitely has self-loving issue, hence her obsession over looks is her way to compensate it AND IT WORKS. so is it weird? yes, even the character also said themselves, but is it a problem? i don't see the issue. her husband accept her for what she is and she also madly in love to her husband. they have long lasting and happy marriage.

she also concerned about her daughter well being, even when she respect her privacy. and her whole narrations is just prelude to make koga comfortable to open himself by making her being open herself first. this is common talking approach but again, it was cut short.

 

[comeonnow0]

she definitely prioritize looks, but her action show she care mores than she say. i felt it more like she want to enjoy her self and living beautifully. she make sure she honest and didn't lie to her husband show that she care about him to some degree. she definitely has self-loving issue, hence her obsession over looks is her way to compensate it AND IT WORKS. so is it weird? yes, even the character also said themselves, but is it a problem? i don't see the issue. her husband accept her for what she is and she also madly in love to her husband. they have long lasting and happy marriage.

she also concerned about her daughter well being, even when she respect her privacy. and her whole narrations is just prelude to make koga comfortable to open himself by making her being open herself first. this is common talking approach but again, it was cut short.

"her action show she care mores than she say"

"she make sure she honest"

Those are directly contradictory. I'm literally just pointing out the contradiction.

Okay, I understand that you're saying it's a prelude and a means to make Koga comfortable enough to speak honestly. But in a real-world situation, that would be problematic because it would likely cause bad impressions with Koga.

I'm saying that if she acted llke this in a realistic scenario, it could easily cause issues. Perhaps she had acted like this with one of Meguro's previous boyfriends/relationships, and then the experiences Meguro had were because of that.

That is explicitly speculation, but my point is that what she says is contradictory with herself, and it could possibly cause problems in any realistic scenario.

You acted like it made no sense for me to say these things, but very clearly, you seem to at least understand why I said this, even if you disagree. It was ridiculous that you accused me of not making sense when you now, on a fundamental level, understanding why I said those things.

 

[Darklight99]

This is less a romance manga about character and more of a PSA about "everyone is different" great moral but these characters don't feel like actual people to me.

 

[kuma]

"her action show she care mores than she say"

"she make sure she honest"

Those are directly contradictory. I'm literally just pointing out the contradiction.

i would argue she admit her flaw and being open to the one she care about. she is pretty consistant in this. she admit she is not normal but she found someone who can tolerate her and she is happy to have relationship with him. that's what matter to her. a relationship where both can honest and enjoy their life to it's full. her obsession on looks strive from self-hating, but she found healthy way to relieve it.

Okay, I understand that you're saying it's a prelude and a means to make Koga comfortable enough to speak honestly. But in a real-world situation, that would be problematic because it would likely cause bad impressions with Koga.

eh, i have some friends that like this. i don't see how it's problematic. some people like to build personal relationship with someone to gain their trust. sometimes by sharing their value. you can't expect people to do something if you are not doing first.

I'm saying that if she acted llke this in a realistic scenario, it could easily cause issues. Perhaps she had acted like this with one of Meguro's previous boyfriends/relationships, and then the experiences Meguro had were because of that.

meguro was not open since child even when the mom try it. she definitely concerned, but meguro is NOT unhappy with her life so she found no reason to open with her mom and her mom didn't like to prey on her children privacy too. Meguro just discovered new happiness with koga.

That is explicitly speculation, but my point is that what she says is contradictory with herself, and it could possibly cause problems in any realistic scenario.

she emphasis that what she did was not exactly normal, but she found someone that accept her for who she is, thus no problem arose.

You acted like it made no sense for me to say these things, but very clearly, you seem to at least understand why I said this, even if you disagree. It was ridiculous that you accused me of not making sense when you now, on a fundamental level, understanding why I said those things.

i just didn't understand to make it big problem when it show they have pretty happy family and they care each other on their own way.

 

[Nyaaa]

The manga and the author writing it are weird here.

The mother says ALL that she cares about are looks. Right before it, she had made a decent statement. It's nice to be able to see a person you love and be happy to see their face. I'm fine with that. But the mother then proceeded to say that for her, looks are all that matter.

The author then tries to cover over that weirdness by having the mother somehow be deep and thoughtful. But what was the point? Why even have that explicitly shallow part? The author could've just had the mother say that looks are also very important, in addition to something like personality.

The reason why it all matters is because her statements about her husband, the father of her children, are all crap. She talks about his personality and how he loves her, but that ultimately doesn't matter. For her, the fact that he's handsome is all that matters.

It's weird.

It could be deeper than that. I think her words of "looks are all that matters" weren't as serious as you assume it to be.

The way I see it, she believes that the looks are all that is important AT FIRST. Remember that she talk about how her husband stayed with her despite her soon to be changing face? Then she talked about how he still loved her etc. And then she talked about her philosophy about what she believe love is? That's when her belief changes.

So it when from "looks are all that matters" to "looks are all that matters, but insert her love philosophy here".

With that established, then she talks about how she wishes that her daughter would get the same person who not only love her for her looks, but be able to support what's inside her too (or something along those lines).

I think the author wrote it like that to quickly establish history and character for the mom.

Or it could be that I am talking out of my ass here and the author just wrote whatever.

 

[aa11bb]

Who's the better mom, Koga's mom, or Meguro's mom?

 

[kodakato]

Oh, please. Don't pretend to care now.

 

[Suben]

I really hope the original piece of shit who tricked her gets some punishment for his actions.

Given the Dale Earnhardtesque turn this series has taken ever since the love hotel and the "ending" I wouldn't at all be shocked if he showed up and waxed poetic about his love of girls and his sexual urges and how you can't deny them and have to take the opportunities presented while Koga and/or Meguro think to themselves about how that's probably true and an agreeable way to live one's life.

Ever since those godforsaken twins showed up it's like instead of the series being more nuanced and mature philosophizing on romance and love, it's become a bunch of characters justifying being assholes, creeps, and weirdos while the MCs nod sagely about how brave and valid their behavior is before thinking to themselves that they don't know if they'll stay together but they're happy.

 

[comeonnow0]

@kuma and @Nyaaa it would get really long if I quoted and went through everything, so I have to summarize. To be clear, yes, I did read everything from both of you.

To Nyaaa, yours is easy. I'm not supposed to take her words seriously? That's just inventing excuses for her AND ignoring the words she said. Oh, she didn't actually mean the words she said. She meant some unsaid, hidden meaning that no one ever said anywhere. This is the first time the mother has ever been shown or her personality ever described? We should just invent excuses for the mother so she looks better.

No. We have zero reason to think the mother is being dishonest. Koga literally tries to say what you said. Personality is important. The mother shoots that down explicitly. I will take her words at face value. Doing anything else is making excuses for the author.

---

To Kuma, somewhat along the same lines, you make up excuses for the mother and the author. Here is my specific and main points.

1) the mother's views are shallow
2) the mother's actions contradict herself, as shown by her saying looks are all that matters but also giving this story about personality
3) in a realistic scenario, this would probably be bad for the people around her, including but not limited to Koga and Meguro

The problem is you keep making excuses like oh, the mother respects Meguro's privacy, and they have a good relationship. Oh, they have a happy family and care for each other. If this were reality, the bad things I mentioned before probably would've happened. Boys in a relationship would see Meguro just go along with the flow and whatever is said. Meanwhile, the mother tells boyfriends looks are all that matter. That's a realistic issue. That's bad because we can literally see the bad results here.

I agree with Suben's point. Koga and Meguro have this refusal to ever disagree with anything, to ever think that something is actually bad. Oh, that person is just bei g true to themselves. That serial killer? He/she has urges, and they're just being true to how they feel. The compulsive gambler throwing away their family's money? True to himself. The killer is happy when killing, so I can't judge that. The gambler is happy when gambling, so I can't judge that. And that's kind of what you are doing, Kuma. You keep saying they're a happy family, yet you ignore the problems that we have literally seen.

Let me make a side issue and be clear about something else. You think I'm making a big issue out of this? It's a minor issue. It's worthwhile for me to bring it up, but it's not huge, like you think I make it out to be. It's just an issue, not a major issue.

 

[SveNo]

So...
Where was her mom when Meguro was getting sexually exploited by scumbags?

She did say that they don't get along, and that Meguro never talks to her about anything. She was probably oblivious to what was happening.

 

[Nyaaa]

@kuma and @Nyaaa it would get really long if I quoted and went through everything, so I have to summarize. To be clear, yes, I did read everything from both of you.

To Nyaaa, yours is easy. I'm not supposed to take her words seriously? That's just inventing excuses for her AND ignoring the words she said. Oh, she didn't actually mean the words she said. She meant some unsaid, hidden meaning that no one ever said anywhere. This is the first time the mother has ever been shown or her personality ever described? We should just invent excuses for the mother so she looks better.

No. We have zero reason to think the mother is being dishonest. Koga literally tries to say what you said. Personality is important. The mother shoots that down explicitly. I will take her words at face value. Doing anything else is making excuses for the author.

---

To Kuma, somewhat along the same lines, you make up excuses for the mother and the author. Here is my specific and main points.

1) the mother's views are shallow
2) the mother's actions contradict herself, as shown by her saying looks are all that matters but also giving this story about personality
3) in a realistic scenario, this would probably be bad for the people around her, including but not limited to Koga and Meguro

The problem is you keep making excuses like oh, the mother respects Meguro's privacy, and they have a good relationship. Oh, they have a happy family and care for each other. If this were reality, the bad things I mentioned before probably would've happened. Boys in a relationship would see Meguro just go along with the flow and whatever is said. Meanwhile, the mother tells boyfriends looks are all that matter. That's a realistic issue. That's bad because we can literally see the bad results here.

I agree with Suben's point. Koga and Meguro have this refusal to ever disagree with anything, to ever think that something is actually bad. Oh, that person is just bei g true to themselves. That serial killer? He/she has urges, and they're just being true to how they feel. The compulsive gambler throwing away their family's money? True to himself. The killer is happy when killing, so I can't judge that. The gambler is happy when gambling, so I can't judge that. And that's kind of what you are doing, Kuma. You keep saying they're a happy family, yet you ignore the problems that we have literally seen.

Let me make a side issue and be clear about something else. You think I'm making a big issue out of this? It's a minor issue. It's worthwhile for me to bring it up, but it's not huge, like you think I make it out to be. It's just an issue, not a major issue.

No no. I meant YOU are taking it (the mother's words) too seriously. Maybe I worded mine wrong...

I can't find the correct words for this. But all I was saying is that a character can have two opposite views regarding a subject matter, if that view can synergize with one another.

Think of it like this. Take me for example. I think that "Killing a living being is wrong". But that is not my only thoughts of the subject. As I go through my life, my experiences and knowledge have made me add much more to that subject than a simple "wrong". I understand that not all people put the lives of animals as high as I do. I also could not bear both the financial burden and the burden of convenience if I decide to avoid the "wrong". So I ended up with this hypocritical view of the subject:

"Killing a living being is wrong; however I recognize that I am still unable to fully commit to this view, so the least I could do is try to avoid killing as much as possible in my private life."

Killing animals is wrong, but I'll allow it if it benefits me. That's the kind of view that I have. I know that my feelings regarding it is clear. It's wrong. No grey here. Just wrong. But my financial situation and place does not support me to fully commit to avoiding this "wrong". Meat foods is cheaper here than the vegetable ones. And much more closer and plentiful too. That's why I chose to settle (you can even say I gave up) on this subject.

I think that the mom here is thinking in the same way here.

She thinks that looks are everything that matters to her, but at the same time, that's not the only thing that matters to her. It's this sorta hypocritical yet human thoughts that make a character seems "enough". If you get what I mean.

 

[TwisterJR]

You better give a good answer there kid

 

[Kaarme]

@kuma and @Nyaaa it would get really long if I quoted and went through everything, so I have to summarize. To be clear, yes, I did read everything from both of you.

To Nyaaa, yours is easy. I'm not supposed to take her words seriously? That's just inventing excuses for her AND ignoring the words she said. Oh, she didn't actually mean the words she said. She meant some unsaid, hidden meaning that no one ever said anywhere. This is the first time the mother has ever been shown or her personality ever described? We should just invent excuses for the mother so she looks better.

No. We have zero reason to think the mother is being dishonest. Koga literally tries to say what you said. Personality is important. The mother shoots that down explicitly. I will take her words at face value. Doing anything else is making excuses for the author.

People aren't that black and white. Like I said in my comment, she's trying to stick to her life philophy. It doesn't mean it works 100%. It would take a real, clinically diagnosed psycho to make it work 100%, most of the time, unless the life philosophy wasn't anything much, that is, it's so vague that one could do anything and still stick to it. I mean, for example, your life philosophy could be never hurting animals and being a vegan, but every single vegan on Earth is eating animals all the time because small insects are getting mixed into crops all the time. Still, the people can consider themselves vegans because they are doing, reasonably, everything they can to be so.

So, most of the time, it's enough just trying to stick to it. That's the sufficent degree because it's all about being satisfied with your life. As long as you can ignore the contradictions and flaws, it's all good. Thus the mom here can claim looks are all that matter to her, and act all superficial, but she can still care about her family's happiness, to the best of her ability, even if it doesn't fit into her apparent narrative.

 

[comeonnow0]

@Nyaaa The problem with saying that the mother has two opposing views simultaneously is that she doesn't. She explicitly denies it. She says out loud, in words, that you are wrong.

Koga says personality. The mother, in direct reply, says looks are the ONLY thing that matter. That means she has directly heard Koga saying personality, and she rejects that.

It is realistically possible to have opposing views at the same time. She doesn't. She says out loud that she doesn't.

@Kaarme Yeah, it is completely possible that she could just say these words and then act contradictory in her actions. Which is still a bit weird and what I had pointed out in my first post. Even if she ends up acting fine, the contradiction itself is still a bit weird.

As a minor example, imagine I tell other people I always jaywalk across the street because it saves time. In reality, though, I actually don't and just rarely/never do it. Action is okay. Still weird for me to say it and be contradictory.

It also sends weird messages to other people. Koga is sitting here listening to this. It's also possible she said these things to previous boyfriends of Meguro, and it's possible that her statements influenced them negatively. That's not unreasonable given the setting.

Anyways, it is ultimately a minor issue, as I mentioned before.

 

[Apep23]

Tag team from mother and daughter never been so good

 

[mope611]

The manga and the author writing it are weird here.

The mother says ALL that she cares about are looks. Right before it, she had made a decent statement. It's nice to be able to see a person you love and be happy to see their face. I'm fine with that. But the mother then proceeded to say that for her, looks are all that matter.

The author then tries to cover over that weirdness by having the mother somehow be deep and thoughtful. But what was the point? Why even have that explicitly shallow part? The author could've just had the mother say that looks are also very important, in addition to something like personality.

The reason why it all matters is because her statements about her husband, the father of her children, are all crap. She talks about his personality and how he loves her, but that ultimately doesn't matter. For her, the fact that he's handsome is all that matters.

It's weird.

It's just a probe to sus out your kid's boyfriend without him feeling like you're interrogating him.

 

[Kaarme]

It also sends weird messages to other people. Koga is sitting here listening to this. It's also possible she said these things to previous boyfriends of Meguro, and it's possible that her statements influenced them negatively. That's not unreasonable given the setting.

Anyways, it is ultimately a minor issue, as I mentioned before.

When reading the chapter, I thought she was trying to push Koga quite hard on purpose, exaggerating her words and claim greatly, to provoke him, in order to get genuine reactions out of him. Only that would allow her to judge Koga's real personality and if he's good for Saki. However, even if she had such intentions, I kind of doubt her personality is crafty/calculative enough to really pull it off, so she might have just acted a little bit more weird and pushy than normally, which ought to be easy for a person like that. That would allow her to more or less subconsciously achieve the same effect. If Saki hadn't returned so soon, I reckon the mom would have indeed got more out of Koga, as flustered as he was.

 

[pip25]

The manga and the author writing it are weird here.

The mother says ALL that she cares about are looks. Right before it, she had made a decent statement. It's nice to be able to see a person you love and be happy to see their face. I'm fine with that. But the mother then proceeded to say that for her, looks are all that matter.

The author then tries to cover over that weirdness by having the mother somehow be deep and thoughtful. But what was the point? Why even have that explicitly shallow part? The author could've just had the mother say that looks are also very important, in addition to something like personality.

The reason why it all matters is because her statements about her husband, the father of her children, are all crap. She talks about his personality and how he loves her, but that ultimately doesn't matter. For her, the fact that he's handsome is all that matters.

It's weird.

What she thinks she believes and what drives her thoughts and actions may be entirely different things. Also, it's possible that people (like her husband) have affected her views without her completely admitting this fact to herself or others.

 

[Nyaaa]

@Nyaaa The problem with saying that the mother has two opposing views simultaneously is that she doesn't. She explicitly denies it. She says out loud, in words, that you are wrong.

Koga says personality. The mother, in direct reply, says looks are the ONLY thing that matter. That means she has directly heard Koga saying personality, and she rejects that.

It is realistically possible to have opposing views at the same time. She doesn't. She says out loud that she doesn't.

@Kaarme Yeah, it is completely possible that she could just say these words and then act contradictory in her actions. Which is still a bit weird and what I had pointed out in my first post. Even if she ends up acting fine, the contradiction itself is still a bit weird.

As a minor example, imagine I tell other people I always jaywalk across the street because it saves time. In reality, though, I actually don't and just rarely/never do it. Action is okay. Still weird for me to say it and be contradictory.

It also sends weird messages to other people. Koga is sitting here listening to this. It's also possible she said these things to previous boyfriends of Meguro, and it's possible that her statements influenced them negatively. That's not unreasonable given the setting.

Anyways, it is ultimately a minor issue, as I mentioned before.

???

She said "only" personality matters. And yet in the next pages she talks about the importance of what's inside the person and hoping that her daughter would have someone who cares about stuff outside of her appearance. That's two opposing views in one. What the hell man? You're just being dishonest at this point.

 

[comeonnow0]

???

She said "only" personality matters. And yet in the next pages she talks about the importance of what's inside the person and hoping that her daughter would have someone who cares about stuff outside of her appearance. That's two opposing views in one. What the hell man? You're just being dishonest at this point.

I'm not being dishonestand, it should be extremely clear that I am not. I am pointing out the mother's dishonesty.