Musume no Tomodachi - Vol. 4 Ch. 32 - Drowning Fish

[voidox]

lawl, another month, another chapter annnnd time to read yet more self-inserters completely blame the daughter for everything, overly hate her, hell some ppl wishing "death/rape" on her... jfc

meanwhile, they completely defend the father since they can't admit faults with someone they self-insert to.

it's amazing how they don't see BOTH the dad and daughter being in different states of fcked, both have made mistakes and both are seeing things from different viewpoints. But the reality is that the daughter is a teenager while the father is an adult, that matters.

also is amazing how so many people aren't putting any blame on the manipulative koto who caused all this, oh no can't dare admit any faults with the angel that'll save the father eh -_- sure she has her owned fcked up home life, but that doesn't excuse her actions and what she did.

@encrypted12345 how exactly is the daughter meant to know literally anything that you wrote? how is she supposed to know her friend is lonely and fcked? what is she supposed to base her empathy on? all she's seeing is that her father and best friend were together/fooling around/w.e. Sure she reacted overboard and is being a brat in not trying to talk to her father, but it is understandable for someone her age and mindset after seeing their father with their friend

also love how you brush off the father/koto thing as: "oh just two lonely people getting together", ignoring the pedo part of the equation... just yikes dude

@relic626 really not hard to make a guess and see what the daughter's state of mind is, really isn't. She's a kid and is acting like one, isn't that hard to figure her out.

And no, it's very much easy to sympathize with the daughter: any child who finds out their father is dating their best friend is going to react badly. Now sure, we can also call her out for perhaps going overboard and running away, but all you've written is showing you just hate the daughter for no reason... and yes, many people are indeed making baseless speculation and dumbs jabs at the daughter, who is apparently the devil in this story :/

 

[Lithe]

@voidox

But the reality is that the daughter is a teenager while the father is an adult, that matters.

also is amazing how so many people aren't putting any blame on the manipulative koto who caused all this, oh no can't dare admit any faults with the angel that'll save the father eh -_- sure she has her owned fcked up home life, but that doesn't excuse her actions and what she did.

I think you summarized their argument if you put the very first part of this quote together with the very last part lol.
It just comes down to different value systems e.g. Koto's flirting had a somewhat directly positive outcome for the Dad (picked up his spirits) to offset the morally questionable actions (of seduction) whereas the daughter's had virtually no positive benefit for anybody, probably not even the daughter herself.

Also, I certainly hope you're just ranting when you point out how people who defend the dad are self-inserters. I hope it doesn't take an actual post to describe how retarded a statement like that is lol.

 

[voidox]

@Lithe

It just comes down to different value systems

wat? so cause the daughter's actions come down to her being a dumb kid = it's alright for ppl to overly hate on her, call her a bitch, completely blame her for what's happening, wish all sorts of shit on her?

again, she is 100% being stupid for running away like that, but people are making her out to being the devil in this story and defend the father

They completely ignore to look at things from her perspective and that she's just a kid. The daughter has no context or knowledge about what happened with koto and her dad nor is the dad suddenly brining up "let's move" a good thing after finding out he was in a (pedo) relationship after her mother died

Koto's flirting

ah yes, "flirting"... it was koto "flirting" when they ended up in a love hotel, koto stripped completely naked, sat on top the father's legs and kissed his neck. That was all just "flirting" eh

questionable actions

and this whole thing with the father and koto was not fcked right, it was only "questionable"... so adult men going out on dates with underage girls is just "questionable"

hope you see how retarted a statement that all is lol

I certainly hope you're just ranting when you point out how people who defend the dad are self-inserters

huh, you must be new to manga with fcked up stories and people who defend them

 

[Airwave2k2]

Yes all the woman in this manga are fucked up bitches, and we can pitty the MC, but..

After reading this chapter the full time sorry sorry sorry mode of the father is so exhausting. Even in this situation he doesn't come clean with his surroundings. Well besides That not giving the daughter a response of comforting to her decision to stay on someone elses place in this moment isn't a good showing either. He got a thin connection, just give her the space she requests and assure your support. It's your flesh. God damn it.


On a sidenote the HR dude is an absolute failure in his position.

 

[jesusdeath14]

poor dude cant catch a break, mans just wants to be happy again

 

[Lithe]

@voidox Meanwhile you sound like you're demonizing the dad instead. I'm guessing you can't get past the underage detail based off the post, but to me it's fairly simple. He stopped himself. He was crumbling under the weight of responsibility amplified by tragedy and then he caught himself. I'd consider a save like that to be monumental for his character. As an aside, I still consider everything up until that point flirting, mostly because that word encompasses everything before the actual fucking as far as I'm concerned, which is something that they did not do.

But the point is that the different value systems determine how much weight people place on the details. Defending the dad is easy 'cause I can look past the underage detail especially since it amounted to practically nothing (you might disagree), but a lot of people can't do that or think that any fraternization whatsoever still amounts to a monumental sin. Similarly, you're free to judge the opinions of other readers, but again, it's the same thing. And yes, the same would apply for people who ask "how can anyone defend the daughter by this point".

I'd also be careful about your stance on children behaving like children. It sounds like some people (yourself included) believe that the change from child to adult is an instantaneous transformation or something based on how easily they excuse Miya versus how much they would blame the father. But I believe the opposite, that the change is gradual. It would mean that at some point Miya will have to own up for her actions, not just her acting up now, but also for her shut-in status that last a year or so.
So when you say

Sure she reacted overboard and is being a brat in not trying to talk to her father

it sounds like you're brushing that off when I would say that you can't frame it as "Sure she...". She didn't just act like a brat, she was pretty much a failure of a child. You could certainly blame the dad for that too, but how much? Exactly when is Miya supposed to start carrying the weight of her own actions? I'd say quite a while ago and also that the parent can only teach so much before the child has to pick up the slack, something that Miya would apparently not have done in the slightest.

Ultimately, we clearly value different things, hence 'different value systems'. I may have summarized a bit too briefly with that statement, but I also thought the explanation was a bit more obvious than it ended up being.

And as to your final point, lol. I'd assume that you were new to life to be able to quickly draw such a specific conclusion off of so little and then double down when challenged, but then again I don't seriously believe that since adults do that too.

 

[relic626]

@voidox thats the problem why are you guessing and drawing a conclusion on it? you're not the one telling the story, i can understand if it's fan theory, but that's not the case here. So far the author has already painted the daughter as the villain in the story.
You talk about "self inserters" but in truth anyone that's siding with the daughter is self inserting, BECAUSE the author has not given us anything solid to work with with regards to the daughter lol.

You guys seriously need to understand this story takes the perspective of the MC and his trials. His daughter is the villain, deal with it.
And for the last fking time the MC was not dating Koto, the daughter without confirmation assumed they were. Because she's a self centered bitch.

 

[Kuroageha]

@Lithe @relic626
lmao stop, he's already dead. Dumb redditard.

 

[bagianatas]

give my man rest aaaaaaaaaaaaa

 

[darkeden112]

Woah I can see some wall of texts in the comment section!

 

[VermillionOcean]

@relic626
We were given plenty of information to empathize with the daughter though: she recently lost her mother, she's at a vulnerable age, circumstances led to her missing school, she feels her father is neglected her mother and her in favor of work and her best friend is now possibly dating that same father, which is pretty creepy (imagine if your high school best friend dated your father/mother). Is she selfish? Sure, but you shouldn't expect more from children her age.

 

[voidox]

@Kuroageha cool, nothing to add but insults. lmao indeed

@relic626

His daughter is the villain

bahahaha, oh man dramatic much xD

So far the author has already painted the daughter as the villain in the story

um, are we reading the same manga here? the daughter is a villain? wat? so koto and the dad are just innocent victims or something?

btw, you seriously don't think the dad dating koto would not blow up in his face sooner or later?

And for the last fking time the MC was not dating Koto, the daughter without confirmation assumed they were. Because she's a self centered bitch.

ah yes, the daughter is bitch cause she should have immediately known he wasn't dating koto, that information should have magically appeared before her and the fact that she doesn't know that information makes her a "self-centered" bitch... wew lad

jfc dude, are you incapable of seeing things from daughter's perspective? or does everything need to to be spoon-fed to you? though I guess if you found out your dad was dating an underage girl, you'd be cool with it eh

also dad was texting koto, thinking about her, went on dates with her, ended up in a hotel with koto, koto stripped nude, sat on his lap, kissed his neck...really don't know how you're defending that. Even if the dad rightly put a stop to things, he let it get to that point.
___________________________________________

@Lithe

As an aside, I still consider everything up until that point flirting, mostly because that word encompasses everything before the actual fucking as far as I'm concerned, which is something that they did not do.

this is just semantics, point is: what happened was wrong and fcked up. Just cause they didn't have sex doesn't excuse or make it okay.

and I've already shown how things went beyond "flirting"... if you think having a naked girl on top of you is still "flirting", then I don't know what else to say.

Meanwhile you sound like you're demonizing the dad instead

no, I'm calling out the dad for what he did... he's the adult in this story and that means he has to face consequences for his actions like ADULTS have to do. And he's not just an adult, he's a PARENT.

And I've said that the dad for sure has his issues and he did eventually stop things, but it's not that simple and he can't just be blindly defended as people are doing.

thing is, people (including you) are just completely brushing off what the dad did cause "he caught himself". You instead put all this blame on the daughter and make her out to being this great evil of the story while letting Koto off the hook and dad is just a "poor victim" :/

and if you can't see how some people do this cause they are self-inserting into the MC, just lol at that

cause I can look past the underage detail especially since it amounted to practically nothing

it amounted to a point where the dad was in a love hotel with Koto, Koto stripped naked, sat on his lap and kissed his neck. That is not "practically nothing", that is already beyond a level where you can argue about it. The fact that you are just brushing it off as "nothing" and can easily look past it, says something indeed.

yes he eventually stopped her, but the fact is that things still reached that point and you keep brushing that off as "nothing". Like, do you seriously believe if you ended up in the exact same situation as the dad (with an underage girl) and told people about it, they would be cool with it cause it was "noting"? or that they'd listen to you try and justify things and not see it as being wrong?

She didn't just act like a brat, she was pretty much a failure of a child.

failure as child? holy hell, why do you hate the daughter so much?

you ignore literally any context or reality of the state of mind of the daughter, daughter's actions and feelings after losing her mother, how it must be for a child to find out their dad was dating an underage girl (their best friend no less) and so on.

you are the one demonising the daughter. You guys are acting like the daughter killed someone or something... failure as child? like what is it you think she did if I may ask? cause from your post it doesn't sound like she overreacted to the moving thing and ran away

and I've said it many times but I'll just point to @VermillionOcean post about what you seem to fail to understand about the daughter. He sums it up perfectly.

and again, she is still a child yet you are placing these ultimatums on a kid "the weight of her own actions" when there are adults who don't do that. It's the parents job, at least until they are 18, to teach and guide their kids. If anything, it's the dad is the one who has failed here if you want to talk about failure.

again, I already said she overreacted by running away and is being a stupid kid by not talking to her dad, but there is an understandable context around the situation for her. And for sure she needs to learn a lesson about running away like that, I never said she shouldn't.

You just blow past anything for the daughter in your crusade to make sure the dad is blameless and defended -_-

It sounds like some people (yourself included) believe that the change from child to adult is an instantaneous transformation or something

no one is saying that, I certainly never said or implied that. Don't know how you got to this point o.o

It would mean that at some point Miya will have to own up for her actions, not just her acting up now, but also for her shut-in status that last a year or so

sure, I agree and again, I never said she shouldn't own up to her actions or learn a lesson for how she acted now.

as for shut-in, you say that by ignoring everything about the daughter like I've already discussed above, so I won't repeat myself but to say: her shut-in status is understandable to an extent.

we clearly value different things

you seem to value some dangerous things, putting all this blame on a kid to thinking adult men dating underage girls is simple matter to put aside :/

 

[BX3]

Sorry, Koto, but it looks like you're about to get NTR'd by the MC's true comfort in life:

Noose-chan!

 

[jazz9]

"The daughter's the villain"...just smh...

Yeah let's forget about the dad flirting with his daughter's underaged friend or about that "friend" puting the moves on her friend's dad...

There's no "villain" per se
Fucked up actions leading to fucked up consequences sums it up imo

Koto should have never initiated the whole thing

The dad should have put a stop to it from the beginning
I can understand him being depressed, feeling all alone and wanting to find some relief but starting a suspicious and secret relationship with your daughter's underaged friend is not it

The daughter has every right to be mad and is maybe going overboard with her reaction (even if it's still totally understable to me given her age/situation) and with some maybe unfortunate consequences coming her way (hope not)

 

[Kuroageha]

Big wall text that amounts to nothing lmao.

 

[relic626]

@voidox woah go write a book m8 your ideals mean nothing here.
You're not the one telling the story, any perspective from the daughters pov would only be you speculating, which is pointless.
For all we know from the daughter's point of view she could be doing everything out of spite due to whatever happened in the past concerning her mom.
But we don't know that shit, all we know is what the MC is facing and how he's coping with it.
Somethings wrong with your head m8 you self insert too much.
Just read the manga and wait for author to draw the conclusion instead of demonizing and belittling people who's siding with the dad.

 

[Tamerlane]

But that's objectively wrong.

He expressly does NOT have any sexual relations with Kiichan, and refuses her advances when he can. Mostly, he just wants the emotional support and Kiichan's repeated attempts at romancing him are often times thwarted by him saying "No."

He never once actually has sexual relations or does anything inappropriate, as he denies any attempt to do so.
@knight_evangel

 

[ChefSakamoto]

I’m seeing suicide about to become a major part of the manga in the next 5-10 chapters maybe. This guys life literally has been falling apart and his daughter just slammed a damn wrecking ball through the middle of the last remaining hold.

 

[voidox]

@jazz9 nah, can't use logic or anything with these ppl.... daughter is apprently a "villain and monster" who has done something unspeakable while the dad is an innocent helpless victim (i.e. their self-insert) and koto is the angel that will save him (i.e. underage kid they want to fck) -_-

@relic626

woah go write a book m8 your ideals mean nothing here.

lol, in a story dealing with ideals, morality, pressures of society and parenthood, you think us talking about ideals is pointless xD

and so what I've read from you is basically thihs: you are unable to think deeply about any story nor are you able to read between the lines. So unless stuff is spoon-fed directly to you, if it isn't directly spelt out to you, then it's just wrong or something... got it.

I do love how despite saying all that, you assume something... and for some reason you assume only the literal worst about the daughter and ignore anyone's posts detailing the reality of a kid in this situation. I guess it makes sense since she's the "villain" of the story in your head.

wew lad you need to calm down and stop self-inserting into the dad so hard. The daughter is just a kid, calm down~

 

[knight_evangel]

@Tamerlane You tagged the wrong person. lol

Either that, or you're objectively putting words before context, knowing goddamn well what I meant when I said what I said, and/or for some reason you're refusing to accept the fact that it could have been a turn-of-phrase in lieu (or in favor of) semantics, political correctness and/or general nerdiness(i.e. having not the faintest clue how to use context clues and only accepting words at face value, generally introverts tend to hate any word being misused because they can't read between lines).

Either way, none of what you replied with has anything to do with my original comment and you'll be ignored until you can come to terms with that! 😄